the importance of learning English

[Awesome]

I have not spoken a word of Spanish to my wife in over 5 years. And because of that and to Chris'F. point, my wife regularly helps our 11 year old 6th grader with his homework as I am in sales and travel most weeks at least a couple of days away. If you live in the USA and have kids, it’s not an option not to learn English if you want to have a full life without limitations here. My wife works for a credit union that has 90% Latino customers. The only employees that get promoted and get large salary increases are the ones that speak English . The company owners are Latinos—So what does that tell you ?
 
 My son, Born in Ecuador, considers English his first language and considers himself American even though he speaks Spanish with him mom in the house. She is completely fine with this as she knows his future is so much brighter being fluent in both languages.

I quoted this and increased the font size for you to make it readable.






The usual trend is the first generation immigrant who comes as an adult never fully learns the language.  The second generation who is born in the us and learns english in primary school grows up bilingual.  The third generation grows up only speaking and learning english.  For example my mexican great-grandparents spoke very minimal english, fast forward a few generations and none of my cousins or siblings speak even basic level spanish.  I only speak spanish because I took it upon myself to learn in in college when I was already an adult.


People who learn english as an adult are definitely the exception and not the rule, for many obvious reasons.  I have alot of respect for someone who puts in the hard work to learn a second language as an adult since it's not an easy thing to do.

[mambocowboy]

Mc I think YOU are the one who needs to go back to english reading class.  Do you even read my posts before you reply?


What's wrong with your brain function mambocowboy?  This isn't the first time I've had to repeat the same thing to you over and over again because you have a hard time comprehending english.  Prefieres que te explique en espanol?



Go back and read my original post in this thread.  I was the first to mention that it's hard for a mother to help her child with school work if she doesn't know english.  And yes of course, a parent knowing english can help improve a child's academic performance.  With that being said I know people with masters degrees who's parents were both immigrants who have yet to learn english.  I also know people who's parents both speak english and the child dropped out in the 8th grade.

listen Awesome, I stopped reading your garbage back when you were posting as Htown. I  learn nothing from them. From your posts, you sound like you're 35 going on 15. And what's with the man crush you have on JJ Watt? I stopped with the hero worship when I was about 11. Grow the f--- up.

[robert angel]

listen Awesome, I stopped reading your garbage back when you were posting as Htown. I  learn nothing from them. From your posts, you sound like you're 35 going on 15. And what's with the man crush you have on JJ Watt? I stopped with the hero worship when I was about 11. Grow the f--- up.

+1

[Awesome]

listen Awesome, I stopped reading your garbage back when you were posting as Htown. I  learn nothing from them. From your posts, you sound like you're 35 going on 15. And what's with the man crush you have on JJ Watt? I stopped with the hero worship when I was about 11. Grow the f--- up.

Hey I'm just helping you out bro.  Somebody's got to educate you, might as well be me.

[utopiacowboy]

My wife never bothered to learn English and we have communicated exclusively in English for the past 11 years. She is a production supervisor at the Toyota plant in San Antonio. English is becoming an optional language in Texas. She basically lives her life in Spanish and I can't see that it has caused her any problems really.

That should have been we communicate exclusively in Spanish. As for social life, we have friends who speak English or Spanish or both. All my kids speak excellent Spanish.

[utopiacowboy]

As the article copied below explains, the older you are, the harder it becomes to even begin to learn a new language. It's insane that most USA  school systems continue to wait until middle or even high school, before they make students take the REQUIRED for graduation, typically two or three years of a foreign language--usually limited to Spanish or French. By then--actually by puberty, the neural pathways that enable you to learn a new language w/o it being mumbo jumbo are pretty much closed. Your mind has become hardwired into not only speaking, but also in thinking in the language you grew up on. It's best to start pre school age really.

Besides, how many of us took 2 or 3 years of Spanish or French in High School and in 2 or 3 years, forgot 90%+ of it? I took Spanish, I have native Spanish speaking relatives and I still have difficulty ordering at Taco Bell!

You can still do it--and some adults can easier than others, but like learning to play an instrument, it's just a typically lot harder the older you are. Once again, your mind's become hardwired. Take into account that in some places on earth, they don't feel compelled to have much exposure to English or to teach conversational English--it's no wonder those who try to learn as adults end up frustrated, tongue tied and confused.

I think many--especially women, find it embarrassing, frustrating and humiliating--often afraid what they want to say in English will come out sounding dumb. My wife is highly educated, grew up where English isn't that uncommon and even when she has an important, complex business correspondence letter, she still--with ten years now in the USA, will sometimes run it by me to make sure syntax and other grammatical details are perfect. Funny thing is, some of the people she works with--born and raised here in the USA--speaking English only, can't write well and really don't worry about it.

""According to the critical period hypothesis, there's a certain window in which second language acquisition skills are at their peak. Researchers disagree over just how long that window is -- some say that it ends by age 6 or 7, while others say that it extends all the way through puberty -- but after that period is over, it becomes much harder for a person to learn a new language. It's not impossible, but children in that critical period have an almost universal success rate at achieving near fluency and perfect accents, while adults' results are more hit-and-miss.

Because children are so much more skilled at picking up a second language than adults, immersion preschools and elementary schools are a popular choice for parents. Students at these schools have math, story time and social studies the way other students do, but their classes are taught in a foreign language. Not only does this give the students ample time to practice the foreign language, but some research indicates that such a program might have other academic benefits, such as higher math scores and sharper critical thinking skills. And learning a second language at such a young age doesn't hinder any abilities in the child's native language -- it seems a child's brain is wired so that all linguistic rules, be they native or foreign, are picked up quickly.

However, just because a child becomes fluent in Italian, Russian and Portuguese doesn't mean that he or she will be speaking those languages 50 years later. Without extended exposure to a language, the child's abilities diminish, so it's important to provide continued opportunities to practice these skills. And even if your parents let your critical period for language acquisition pass by without so much as an "adios," don't fret. Even though young children may be more naturally gifted at learning languages, adults can learn them, too -- with motivation and hard work.""

You're right. I think the window goes past 6 or 7. My stepdaughter came here when she was 9 and her English is impeccable. She was valedictorian at her high school and won a lot of scholarships. You would never know she was not a native English speaker. Her brothers who came here at 13 and 14 speak very good English but they have slight accents which they will never lose. Hell, I've been speaking Spanish for over a decade and still sound like a gringo even though I can say anything I want and understand nearly everything. My French, at this point, is far worse than my Spanish but since I learned it early I can speak it without an accent.

[robert angel]

As part of my work, I've spent a good amount of time in at least seventy schools, seeing kids from preschool to age 21--also worked in some colleges too---again with students and faculty from all kinds of nations---Mexico, S&C America, Asia--Vietnam, Philippines, Middle East etc, ---India (technically Asia too) all parts of Europe, Africa and more.

If a kid gets here by middle--junior high school age, he or she has not just an excellent chance of mastering English, but even sometimes totally losing their accent, while still being able to speak their native language at home. For the parents, we more often than not bring in interpreters for meetings and have paperwork on hand in many languages.

Once they get into --more precisely 'start' at High School age , it becomes a LOT harder for the kids to 'get' English. I have had a lot of Teachers approach me and try to find out ways they can get around--find ways where they do NOT have to make phone calls to immigrant parents, parents who's children are often the hardest working students in the school, but might be getting C or lower grades in English, Comparative Lit or another foreign language--say, French, for instance.

The reason why is not only are the kids typically trying incredibly hard and behaving perfectly, but you call parents from India, other parts of Asia and sometimes  parents from other nations and tell them their children are failing or are in danger of failing, unlike too many Americans who'll blame the Teacher, THEY will about kill their kids, feeling immense disgrace because the Teacher (who by the rules HAD to call) phoned them, bringing shame on them.

Perhaps the happiest places in schools at every level are the "English Second Language Classrooms" where typically a student might spend just a year with a Teacher and Para professional who typically do not and aren't required to, have any ability to speak any language other than English to teach ESOL. There might be ten different languages going around those rooms, but geeze Louise, those students and staff have a GREAT time, mixing and learning all together. Lots of smiles--I sometimes will stop in for 5 or 10 minutes, just to get a 'contact high'.

Also on a happier note, there's something else I see, mostly with Asian kids. Even though I can usually tell what part of Asia they're from by their looks (same, but to a lesser extent w/ Mexico, S&C America kids) it just makes me grin and really crack up when I politely and discreetly ask an Asian kid in the hallway--say a third grader for instance: "What nationality are you?" A lot of times, the kids won't even blink, sticking out their chest and loudly proclaiming "I'M an AMERICAN!!" Gotta love it....

[bernard]

Second, your children as they grow and mature will easily be able to keep secrets around their mom by simply switching to English with their friends.

LMAO!   So English speaking kids here in the States don't easily keep secrets from their English speaking moms?  You're pretty naive my friend for being a teacher.  Smh

[robert angel]

LMAO!   So English speaking kids here in the States don't easily keep secrets from their English speaking moms?  You're pretty naive my friend for being a teacher.  Smh

Your drivel really doesn't even merit the time, thought or energy involved in replying (as indicated by what you get and how members here label and generally don't respond to you) but this is ridiculous. Of course kids keep secrets. And guess what? They do it in SECRET!--Not conspiring right in front--right under their Mother's faces, in a language foreign to her. It's just more tempting, so much easier, when they don't have to be in another room, or talk in code or slang so she doesn't catch on right away. But when they can do it right in front of her face in a language she doesn't pick up on, it can become too easily routine to make secrets and, say snide things under her nose undetected--it's very different and tends to escalate. 'Lead us not into temptation'. Hopefully the kids have enough respect not to do such stuff, but in such a scenario, it's easy.

Bernard, do you ever have anything positive to bring here? Your avatar depicts a person who's probably more well adjusted than you are. You sure do a lot of slagging. It doesn't sound like you have much to say in terms of the ladies--back in August, you briefly (1 for 125 posts!) had something almost meaningful and not negative in that direction, but in terms of relationships and the dynamics involved, you've had a lot more to say about prostitution than the women in general down south of the border. You've been called a sociopath, a troll--a whole lot of things here. And from a lot of different people too--don't think you've missed many members in your relentless, negative criticism. One thing nobody can doubt is that you're one consistently negative person who rather than contribute anything positive, prefers to snipe at members, picking at the littlest things. Why don't you find another sandbox to troll around and crap in?

[bcc_1_2]

I just don't get the anti not learning English argument at all. Granted it would sure suck to have your foreign wife start jamming to Taylor Swift songs, but for work and life in the United States the English language is nearly essential everywhere.

I'd go as far as saying it is smart to stay away from adult women that don't have at least some basic English. If they are 25,30, or 35 and managed to avoid basic English I suspect teaching them would be one hell of a feat. Now UC is an outlier who has made it work really well, but I don't think he's the norm. It's almost 2015, and I can tell you many of these young women do know some English (even if they aren't fully comfortable speaking), so you can find English speakers overseas.

Transitioning to marriage in a new country is hard enough before you add the language barrier. I'm not saying only date fluent women, but there really needs to be a basic level there to work with. Her odds of being conversational just jump through the roof.

I just don't see an issue with setting some standards. Non-smoker, women with no kids (especially if you don't have any yet), basic English, a girl with a job not in poverty, etc. Why not? This isn't a rescue mission. You are looking for a life partner.

[fathertime]

I just don't see an issue with setting some standards. Non-smoker, women with no kids (especially if you don't have any yet), basic English, a girl with a job not in poverty, etc. Why not? This isn't a rescue mission. You are looking for a life partner.

Reasonable standards like he says are a good idea.  Obviously they vary from person, i.e. a smoker probably won't have a problem with a fellow smoker.




Regarding the English, in my opinion it is better for the lady to either know English or have the ability/desire to learn it, than the alternative.  If it were me that were currently 'in the hunt' if a woman didn't know English at all, I wouldn't let that stop me from pursuing her, if she was very good in all other categories.  BUT if she didn't know English AND said she wasn't going to ever attempt to learn it  in the states, I would probably move on, because that shows stubbornness, limited horizons, and is unreasonable, and I wouldn't want to be living with a person like that when there would be other women to choose from. 


Fathertime!   

[bernard]

Your drivel really doesn't even merit the time, thought or energy involved in replying (as indicated by what you get and how members here label and generally don't respond to you) but this is ridiculous. Of course kids keep secrets. And guess what? They do it in SECRET!--Not conspiring right in front--right under their Mother's faces, in a language foreign to her. It's just more tempting, so much easier, when they don't have to be in another room, or talk in code or slang so she doesn't catch on right away. But when they can do it right in front of her face in a language she doesn't pick up on, it can become too easily routine to make secrets and, say snide things under her nose undetected--it's very different and tends to escalate. 'Lead us not into temptation'. Hopefully the kids have enough respect not to do such stuff, but in such a scenario, it's easy.

Bernard, do you ever have anything positive to bring here? Your avatar depicts a person who's probably more well adjusted than you are. You sure do a lot of slagging. It doesn't sound like you have much to say in terms of the ladies--back in August, you briefly (1 for 125 posts!) had something almost meaningful and not negative in that direction, but in terms of relationships and the dynamics involved, you've had a lot more to say about prostitution than the women in general down south of the border. You've been called a sociopath, a troll--a whole lot of things here. And from a lot of different people too--don't think you've missed many members in your relentless, negative criticism. One thing nobody can doubt is that you're one consistently negative person who rather than contribute anything positive, prefers to snipe at members, picking at the littlest things. Why don't you find another sandbox to troll around and crap in?

Robert, you're slipping...only a 2 paragraph response instead of your usual 8-10.  Must be helping wifey with Thanksgiving preparations.  Good for you!  She deserves a little attention.  Happy Thanksgiving!

[bcc_1_2]

Reasonable standards like he says are a good idea.  Obviously they vary from person, i.e. a smoker probably won't have a problem with a fellow smoker.




Regarding the English, in my opinion it is better for the lady to either know English or have the ability/desire to learn it, than the alternative.  If it were me that were currently 'in the hunt' if a woman didn't know English at all, I wouldn't let that stop me from pursuing her, if she was very good in all other categories.  BUT if she didn't know English AND said she wasn't going to ever attempt to learn it  in the states, I would probably move on, because that shows stubbornness, limited horizons, and is unreasonable, and I wouldn't want to be living with a person like that when there would be other women to choose from. 


Fathertime!

Yea and you are saying that living in southern California. Imagine if you lived in the Midwest. You'd been even more hardcore on the English issue. And this situation will arise. You end up in Costa Rica talking to some rural 12 on a scale of 10 stunner/model/beauty queen, etc. She won't be very wordily. She won't know English. AND getting married to a nice gringo and moving to America will sound nice to her at the time. To me that just feels like a train wreck waiting to happen. 

Now I was in my 20s and able to turn this sort of thing down, but that's my situation. Now imagine the older divorced guy who's moving on from a frigid/fat/rude EX.... now he runs into the ignorant beauty queen. That's pretty hard to walk away from for some.

[fathertime]

Yea and you are saying that living in southern California. Imagine if you lived in the Midwest. You'd been even more hardcore on the English issue. And this situation will arise. You end up in Costa Rica talking to some rural 12 on a scale of 10 stunner/model/beauty queen, etc. She won't be very wordily. She won't know English. AND getting married to a nice gringo and moving to America will sound nice to her at the time. To me that just feels like a train wreck waiting to happen. 

Now I was in my 20s and able to turn this sort of thing down, but that's my situation. Now imagine the older divorced guy who's moving on from a frigid/fat/rude EX.... now he runs into the ignorant beauty queen. That's pretty hard to walk away from for some.

Being that you are in the Midwest and Spanish is probably rather rare, you place a lot of importance on English which is reasonable enough. From my viewpoint, English is also important, although the attitude of not wanting to learn English is an indicator of other personality traits that I would probably find unpalatable (for me). 


The example you have given has probably happened many times, and yeah most guys are going to have a hard time passing the woman up, especially if they feel their choices and/or time are limited.  It is an imperfect world, and people are free to make less optimal choices, and live with the consequences. In other cases, the woman (if willing) can be schooled and pick up English.  So it is something that can be 'righted', other built-in personality attributes may not be easily 'correctable'. 


Fathertime!     

[Chris F]

LMAO!   So English speaking kids here in the States don't easily keep secrets from their English speaking moms?  You're pretty naive my friend for being a teacher.  Smh

 Uhm  Bernard?...maybe you better reread what I wrote again. I am referrring to Spanish speaking moms who never learn English

[bernard]

 Uhm  Bernard?...maybe you better reread what I wrote again. I am referrring to Spanish speaking moms who never learn English

uhmmm...Teacher?  Maybe you had better reread what I wrote again.  At least Robert understood my point...just a little.

[robert angel]

You have to have some standards going into a search--including some non-negotiable ones. But on some 'standards' there is--or at least I think there should be, some 'flex' room, where certain other factors influence your decision, balancing factors out. Now, that can also be a slippery slope, as guys (including me for sure) can rationalize almost anything. Maybe the most common is when a woman is so stunningly pretty--when she really rocks you and you don't really make too much out of some other things that aren't so great about her--things that'd make you 'write off' a less attractive girl. I can almost guarantee you that 'heat' along with some of her 'looks' and sex appeal, will fade or even flame out on you eventually. And you're not getting any more studly, or handsomer meanwhile either...Fact is, after your married, the white hot sex is gonna drop off a bit--I loved how Father Time put it a good while back--something like '--You don't get the same 'Electraboner' effect when you hold hands, kiss, etc"--HAhaha! That was a gem...

Starting out, I certainly had standards and guidelines, along with preconceived notions about what I wanted in a woman. I wanted someone I could communicate with relatively easily and for her to be able to do so where we live. Just one example of my 'settling' outside of my original parameters, was my wife wasn't in the age range I was initially looking for. But she was a lot more mature, patient and accepting of imperfections and life's struggles, more so than most women twice her age.

It took a helluva a woman to put up with my older son and she not only did so wonderfully, but she made me--(still does) a better Father, as she still can cool me down when I am feeling like ripping my son's head off and lashing into him verbally. She'll remind me I was the same way once---that he's still relatively young, to not react too quickly--just sage advice. She even looks over some of my work correspondence and tells me to re read it the next day when I'm not so pissed. I plead guilty to having spoiled my sons materially, then I complain that they always want the best of this and that--but she asks for very little in comparison and reminds me calmly w/o putting me down, that my ex and I  pretty much created the monster I complain about. She sees the whole picture and hasn't lost respect for me, and once a woman loses respect and/or affection for you, you're done with--kill the plant to the roots and move on. Meanwhile, I have to persuade her into letting me get her some nice things--last night, she wouldn't let me buy her a couple nice sweaters on-line at 50% off from Express, saying "They up the prices compared to the same item at the Mall and THEN discount it!" For years now, she wanted the dingy carpet taken out of our house and wood floors put in. I finally went ahead--they're doing them as I type and now she says "That's ALL I want for Christmas!" (She'll get a few more things)


I don't know if too many Latinas would be as good at disarming hand grenades like me. Or being sexy and conservative at the same time, not gaining a lot of weight, not wanting expensive things other women they know have or that they see advertised  etc.  I tend to think some Latinas are better at tossing the grenades back and forth w/ their partners and the guys have to enforce the peace--call for a truce, etc.  Just not my style. So I rationalized that way--with my younger wife--that she's mature for her age, non volatile and gives good counsel. Plus she looks better than she did 14 years ago when I first set eyes on her--she works out--encourages me to also do so (w/o nagging) and for us to eat sensibly.

So, it's been a gamble that's worked out for a pretty long time now, but could still conceivably come back and bite me in a terrible way. We also discussed the long term ramifications of age differences in depth--she'd even bring up the fact that I'll probably be in diapers when she's still able bodied--but that she knew the reality from the start. You'll see a lot of women say "Age is just a number"--I only wish it was as simple as that--it sure isn't.

Sometimes rationalizations-decisions come back and bite you in the ass. But then, sometimes you make a choice that near picture perfectly matched all your parameters--standards-expectations and YOU change--or SHE changes. Life in the USA can change, heck, it WILL change people who move here, especially from third world environments.

Maybe if I spoke Spanish or whatever language native to my partner, I'd feel differently, but knowing my short level of patience, I'd be irritable not being able to fluidly communicate in verbal and written form. That in turn would make her miserable and things would just get old and worse probably for us. Not good for me.

So the best I can probably say is don't get blinded by beauty, make sure you have standards--including some non negotiable ones, but don't let all of them be non negotiable. Sometimes you have to settle and it'll actually work out for the better! A flexible strand of grass survives a massive storm better than an immovable oak tree!

[robert angel]

uhmmm...Teacher?  Maybe you had better reread what I wrote again.  At least Robert understood my point...just a little.

Understand you??? I actually think it'd take a team of the world's most studied psychiatrists  to understand you.--You're one sick pup.

[bernard]

Understand you??? I actually think it'd take a team of the world's most studied psychiatrists  to understand you.--You're one sick pup.

Nothing like a little hypocritical "sniping"....

[mambocowboy]

the attitude of not wanting to learn English is an indicator of other personality traits that I would probably find unpalatable (for me). 



Fathertime!   

Not sure I articulated it as well as this but I completely agree!

[V_Man]

Here you can't really be part of society without English.
My wife is struggling with it but she is slowly learning. She is about pre-intermediate stage now.
Without English you'd be lucky to get a cleaning job here.


I agree that Colombia is out of step with the rest of the world in this respect. English is the international language and the world gets more interdependent every day. Now that my wife has been living outside South America she can see that clearly.

[Gato4Astrid]

Here you can't really be part of society without English.
My wife is struggling with it but she is slowly learning. She is about pre-intermediate stage now.
Without English you'd be lucky to get a cleaning job here.


I agree that Colombia is out of step with the rest of the world in this respect. English is the international language and the world gets more interdependent every day. Now that my wife has been living outside South America she can see that clearly.

My mother lived in Romania for 5 years (now back in UK) but still had struggled learning Romanian.