The Value of Marriage ...

[V_Man]

 
Antarctica??
 
 
 

With her or without her?

[A_Thomas]

Things have changed for the Better?   I would disagree.

Racing is nothing but a HO festival.  I worked for the largest distributor of tobacco products east of the Mississippi and family still does.  If you can remember the Winston Cup, and have been around many social events in Drag racing, Nascar, CART, Indy, and some Formula 1.  I have never seen anything stable there that I would say "Gosh, they have a perfect Marriage".  More like "WOW, that chicks all over him while his wife is hooking up with another driver."

WHY are ONLY the guys  "the douche bags, serial daters and other so-called "Alpha Males" if she's lucky" I would say this it takes 2 to Tango.  I have found whatever one is "guilty of",  the party has a negative in that same column, and is just as guilty.

 
I guess my point is GUYS...It seems to me a lot of the new posters, have a very feminine flavor to them.  Have we been invaded by the Snapper Brigade?

 WHAAT!!!! How many people are divorced and how many are remarried? Bill Elliot and Ray Evernham have all divorced and remarried. Micheal Andretti is also remarried and has been married longer to his 2nd wife than his bitchy first wife.


 What does Scott Pruett say to camera every single time it makes me sick?


 Joe Amato remarried before he retired and Kenny Bernstein also remarried, so I don't know what you're talking about?


 Racing is a family support, accept for Formula One, which is about decadence, excess and the haves/have nots.

 Not sure what you and your family working for RJR has to do with it. I never said perfect marriages, you said that. I said most drivers are married, especially in family values, Tony Perkins, Bible Belt, NASCAR Country.


   

[A_Thomas]

Get down where?

 Get Down Tonight?


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKOP6ozlJg


 

[Researcher]

I really don't get why some groan about how women are in the US when they know about foreign babes. I see how it is and could care less. Yep, US broads have a jacked up attitude when it comes to relationships. The smart ones realize it and it seems with every generation that comes along more of them realize it. Things will continue to evolve and probably be great someday. In the meantime I feel like a caveman driving a car while the other cavemen are playing around with the newly invented wheel! LOL!

[A_Thomas]

I really don't get why some groan about how women are in the US when they know about foreign babes. I see how it is and could care less. Yep, US broads have a jacked up attitude when it comes to relationships. The smart ones realize it and it seems with every generation that comes along more of them realize it. Things will continue to evolve and probably be great someday. In the meantime I feel like a caveman driving a car while the other cavemen are playing around with the newly invented wheel! LOL!

 LOL


 Its easier to complain, that's all. The adventure is gone out of American men for the most part, especially those that grew up in Suburbia.


 The explorer is rewarded for his efforts. Too many women (especially outside of tourist circles) available, that have never met an American or any Westerner in some cases. They only THINK (Stereotype) what you might be like from TV and Movies.


 I'm serious about my mission...

[Researcher]

 LOL


 Its easier to complain, that's all. The adventure is gone out of American men for the most part, especially those that grew up in Suburbia.


 The explorer is rewarded for his efforts. Too many women (especially outside of tourist circles) available, that have never met an American or any Westerner in some cases. They only THINK (Stereotype) what you might be like from TV and Movies.


 I'm serious about my mission...

It is good that you have realized your options with international ladies. Marrying one was one of the best decisions I have ever made.

[fathertime]

I hear you Fathertime. I agree with you 100 percent on this.
Cross your fingers for me. I may need a little dose of good luck as well a good attitude!!!

well v_man good luck can't be anything but good, so whether you need it or not GOOD LUCK!


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

I really don't get why some groan about how women are in the US when they know about foreign babes. I see how it is and could care less. Yep, US broads have a jacked up attitude when it comes to relationships. The smart ones realize it and it seems with every generation that comes along more of them realize it. Things will continue to evolve and probably be great someday. In the meantime I feel like a caveman driving a car while the other cavemen are playing around with the newly invented wheel! LOL!

YOYO     That is a good one, I am proud to say I'm another one of those loping caveman behind the wheel!  I think I see a bedraggled  hitchhiker with pointy elbows and a frown alongside the road riding a tricycle, looks like he could use a lift or something. 


Fathertime!

[V_Man]

I'm with you Researcher except that I like to remind other men that they have other options. They could also be driving a car. I also like to subtly remind women that they have a lot more competition than they thought. 


It is my little way of accelerating the process you talked about.

[whitey]

I really don't get why some groan about how women are in the US when they know about foreign babes. I see how it is and could care less. Yep, US broads have a jacked up attitude when it comes to relationships. The smart ones realize it and it seems with every generation that comes along more of them realize it. Things will continue to evolve and probably be great someday. In the meantime I feel like a caveman driving a car while the other cavemen are playing around with the newly invented wheel! LOL!

I hear what you're saying Researcher and largely agree, however the problem that still remains is once we bring our women back to gringolandia, they can be influenced by the feminist mentality and our culture that is currently promoting it.  Men's value in our culture diminishes every day. 

[fathertime]

I hear what you're saying Researcher and largely agree, however the problem that still remains is once we bring our women back to gringolandia, they can be influenced by the feminist mentality and our culture that is currently promoting it.  Men's value in our culture diminishes every day.

Hey Whitey!  Don't take offense, but you have given me the opportunity to throw some crap out there!


 Whitey a lot of things CAN happen.  I haven't experienced any of this so called "feminist influence   for more than 30 seconds.  That is not to say I haven't caught sheet once in a while because I most certainly have, when I deserved it.  If I ever feel I am catching crap from a wife/woman for something unwarranted  then I stand up for myself on the spot.  .   That is THE END of that. 


My feeling is, that if we (husbands) don't want to have a wife disrespect/belittle/shirk responsibilities, then maybe we (husbands) need to act like men of old.  If we behave like wishy washy wussies, or do weak things, then perhaps a loss of respect is warranted.  Is that what feminism is within a relationship?   I feel that when I have caught crap for righteous reasons, it is a good thing, but when a man catches scorn from a bitter woman the onus is his to nip it in the bud.  If it is a perpetual problem that can't be corrected then leave the woman to wallow in her own caca. 


Not much is automatic and/or endless, we (husbands) are not  going to be treated like 'kings',  if our behavior is that of a jester (zon).  Women have options, and I'm fine with that because so do I and any other man.  I'm convinced all this groaning about 'feminism'is weak, if it exists it is because individual men have permitted it to happen.  What is on TV doesn't mean jacksquat to how our household is going to be. 


    I welcome opposing opinions!  [size=78%]         [/size]
 
Fathertime!

[V_Man]

Plus I also feel sorry for any daughters and nieces that I have. They are being raised in a society that makes them ill equiped to attract and maintain lasting relationships with good men.

Many younger women are aware of these issues on some level and do their best to distance themselves from feminists. Many have seen first hand what feminist ideology has done to their fathers, brothers and others that they love. So there is some hope for the future generation.

[htown]

Hey Whitey!  Don't take offense, but you have given me the opportunity to throw some crap out there!


 Whitey a lot of things CAN happen.  I haven't experienced any of this so called "feminist influence   for more than 30 seconds.  That is not to say I haven't caught sheet once in a while because I most certainly have, when I deserved it.  If I ever feel I am catching crap from a wife/woman for something unwarranted  then I stand up for myself on the spot.  .   That is THE END of that. 


My feeling is, that if we (husbands) don't want to have a wife disrespect/belittle/shirk responsibilities, then maybe we (husbands) need to act like men of old.  If we behave like wishy washy wussies, or do weak things, then perhaps a loss of respect is warranted.  Is that what feminism is within a relationship?   I feel that when I have caught crap for righteous reasons, it is a good thing, but when a man catches scorn from a bitter woman the onus is his to nip it in the bud.  If it is a perpetual problem that can't be corrected then leave the woman to wallow in her own caca. 


Not much is automatic and/or endless, we (husbands) are not  going to be treated like 'kings',  if our behavior is that of a jester (zon).  Women have options, and I'm fine with that because so do I and any other man. I'm convinced all this groaning about 'feminism'is weak, if it exists it is because individual men have permitted it to happen.  What is on TV doesn't mean jacksquat to how our household is going to be. 


    I welcome opposing opinions!  [size=78%]         [/size]
 
Fathertime!

I agree with what FT said.


Don't try to blame your own shortcomings or your lack of success with women on this so called "feminism" epidemic. Quit lying to yourself.  If you got bullied around by some of these "feminists" at some point in your life, then you damn well deserved it for not having any balls.  And going to another country to find a mate isn't going to magically make your balls grow back.

[SkyNorth]

Just a few stories...it goes on and on and on and always will; the guys are rockstars and the women are FAST to.  My family members are distributors not manufacturers, not that is matters they both are in the loop.

 
 BELOW ARE STORIES PASTED FROM THE NET NOT ME

Why is it OK with Gordon fans that he cheated on his first wife,  little (and I do mean little) Jeffie isn't so cutesy and perfect after all, or are extra marital affairs OK with his fans?  He cheated on his wife for years and it was only 3 yrs. ago.  He had nothing when he met her he was a rookie and she was Miss Winston Cup, she deserves whatever she got in the divore settlement.
 
 
 
Michael Landis, team manager for Jimmie Johnson and close friends with Chad Knaus is currently dating Alicia Young. She's seperated from her husband who was a small fish in racing. Rumor is she cheated on her husband with Elliott Sadler after he met the two of them at some event and is now in the middle of an ugly divorce and custody battle. No word on if Elliot is the target of any legal action. A close friend of mine knows the inside scoop and says she had numerous affairs on her husband and has been trying for years to land herself a driver. Now she's been seen around with Landis and was even at the banquet. This is not the first time I've heard of this happening. Just another pit lizard lapping at the heels of the NASCAR elite. I wonder how many of the other wives or girlfriends started out like that.
 
 
 
When TNT cut to a shot of Kurt Busch during the national anthem on Sunday, he was standing with a beautiful blonde woman who was not his wife.
All of a sudden, dozens of ever-observant NASCAR fans – many of whom are just as interested in the drivers' off-track lives as they are in their on-track pursuits – lit up Twitter and Facebook. What happened to Eva Busch?
 
Dale had 3-4 wives.

[SkyNorth]

There is a lot of truth to the things written above.  Things like if you are weak you might be run over by a feminist so, grow a pair and handle your business.  Agreed.
 
But this is America, and things get complicated quickly.  For example, a military contract won by a female sales rep selling inferior grades of carbon fiber to our US contractors because of extra benefits.  What that means, US Soliders have less that quality gear on the battle field.  She was using her Special Forces. Source: long time friend in the Navy.

Another, female sales rep sold a Utility company products on no bid contracts, that had always been bid on in the past. End result, add extra $'s to your Utility Bill.  Source: Eyewitness.

Does un-due influence happen in America? Sure.  Are these a "Feminist Problem"  You tell me!  However, neither one of these lady's were fired after caught, all of us here would have been used as the scape-goat.  But it is an example how nice legs and boobs move you up the ladder.  The lady in example #2 was a clerk/cashier at best and was given a high level sales job because of gender and poor morals.

Also, Guys whats on TV definately effects your lives.  I'm not sure the definition is "Feminism" because I think it has morphed into something more (not talking about 24 YO girls opinions).  I think it has morphed into areas of social experimenting (i.e. the black males decressed role in his family), Corp schemeing (a way to pay people less), family value re-distribution (kids more into ipods than mom and dad),  etc. all having damaging effects on our culture.  To me it seems like this keeps us men on the Hamster Wheel, never satisfied and always working for a new shiny object.  When we ALL should be at home with the wife & kids, going over ABC's, not slaves to our careers.

[Researcher]

I hear what you're saying Researcher and largely agree, however the problem that still remains is once we bring our women back to gringolandia, they can be influenced by the feminist mentality and our culture that is currently promoting it.  Men's value in our culture diminishes every day.

And so another reason for the wife hunter wisdom of "choosing wisely". Women influence one another, no doubt, but I am lucky my wife is set in her ways and sees the women here in the US as silly when it comes to their attitudes toward relationships. I think it is good to tell a foreign woman about these sorts of things. Many of the latinas felt it was necessary to tell me how the latino men were "dogs" so I explain how women in the US are so selfish they can't have a decent relationship.

[Researcher]

YOYO     That is a good one, I am proud to say I'm another one of those loping caveman behind the wheel!  I think I see a bedraggled  hitchhiker with pointy elbows and a frown alongside the road riding a tricycle, looks like he could use a lift or something. 


Fathertime!

Yep, it seems that way. Some guys never learn.

[Zon]

There is the goal of finding a wife in another country (for whatever purpose) and then living a "normal" American life as fast and efficient as possible.  Pink house; white picket fence; 2.5 tan skinned kids with salsa music ringing through the house.  FINE.  Nothing wrong with that.

In fact, if that is ALL one is seeking, it's rather easy to achieve.

As a man ...

• You need to be a little sober with yourself - look honestly in the mirror.  (Not because you are crazy, but because the "normal" in other countries is very different and often causes confusion).
• You need to be aware that many people may be acting falsely for financial reasons (pretty obvious).
• At the same time, you need to think the best of people (trust, but verify).
• You need to be the best man you can be (integrity, patient, and all the things that goes into planting a garden).

If you do all this and have the slightest amount of luck, it is hard not to see how ALMOST ANY MAN could fail duplicate the "success & victory" that is often bragged about here:) It is not hard!   There is a world of decent and not ugly women that would love to have a chance at a decent life.   Indeed, if that is to be the sole and only focus of discussion, it seems hardly enough to justify an active forum of ideas and dialogue - an E-Book would be better! 

There is the concern of transition if you bring a woman to the USA that is waaay out of one's league and age - but, most of the guys here seem to think that they can just go back down and get another Which, again, is the truth.

For such people examining life (that means LIVING, not visiting) in a different country, looking more broadly and deeply into the social, political, and economic differences of other countries versus the USA, is an absolute waste of time and, evidentally a great irritation? 

[robert angel]

There is the goal of finding a wife in another country (for whatever purpose) and then living a "normal" American life as fast and efficient as possible.  Pink house; white picket fence; 2.5 tan skinned kids with salsa music ringing through the house.  FINE.  Nothing wrong with that.

In fact, if that is ALL one is seeking, it's rather easy to achieve.

As a man ...

• You need to be a little sober with yourself - look honestly in the mirror.  (Not because you are crazy, but because the "normal" in other countries is very different and often causes confusion).
• You need to be aware that many people may be acting falsely for financial reasons (pretty obvious).
• At the same time, you need to think the best of people (trust, but verify).
• You need to be the best man you can be (integrity, patient, and all the things that goes into planting a garden).

If you do all this and have the slightest amount of luck, it is hard not to see how ALMOST ANY MAN could fail duplicate the "success & victory" that is often bragged about here:) It is not hard!   There is a world of decent and not ugly women that would love to have a chance at a decent life.   Indeed, if that is to be the sole and only focus of discussion, it seems hardly enough to justify an active forum of ideas and dialogue - an E-Book would be better! 

There is the concern of transition if you bring a woman to the USA that is waaay out of one's league and age - but, most of the guys here seem to think that they can just go back down and get another Which, again, is the truth.

For such people examining life (that means LIVING, not visiting) in a different country, looking more broadly and deeply into the social, political, and economic differences of other countries versus the USA, is an absolute waste of time and, evidentally a great irritation? 

Zon, there seems to be an air of confusement in your post. I disagree that it is 'hard not so see how almost any man could fail to duplicate the 'success and victory' that is often bragged about here.
 
I really don't know anymore what you're looking for, or if you even know, but some of your observations don't seem to be grounded on real life, first hand experience. Perhaps love is (not infatuation) like lightning and you, when you least expect it, will be struck eventually and realize whether or not it's good, who knows? There have been debates here on whether 'luck' really exists, I think it does, but then you still have to act on it. Then again, there might be state of 'arrested development' going on here with you, but seems a while back you were becoming a bit more realistic--prgamatic if you will, in your take on relationships. Perhaps that's on hiatus again.

 
You don't hear much from the guys who've married women from abroad, only to have the marriages crash and burn.Of course guys will talk a lot more about 'success and victory'.

 
 I met my first Asian wife in the USA and that ended in divorce and I think a good number of 'regulars' here have also had marriages to women from abroad that didn't work out--especially a lot of USA guy--Colombiana woman marriages. A lot of guys here disappear off the radar when things don't work out, feeling like 'tail between legs' and licking their wounds in private.
 
Then again, a lot of the guys who posted here before, who ARE happily married just don't post here anymore, so it's hard to get a grip on success versus failure on their accounts.

 
If you take (if figures were available)  the overall percentage of USA guys who marry women from south america and experience divorce, I'd venture to guess the percent is probably higher than that of people marrying 'their own kind'.

 
Whether it's rice, salsa music and dance that a foreign bride brings to a union, along with tanner children, there's SOOO much more than that--their culture and many behaviors, superstitions etc, never really go away. Just like many cities and towns have distinctive ethnic areas, many households have distinctive flavors refelective of their blended marriages, families and their combined cultures.

 
My first wife was actually a wee bit older than me, my current is quite a bit younger. In terms of things working out and a better match of temperments, the second time around is light years better. I agree the wider the age gap the greater the chance things might unravel down the line, but like a lot of guys, I take (took) my chances. In our case, things are pretty damn good and although I don't see it now, if it ended, I'd still be glad for what I had--miles and miles of smiles and memories.
 
But instead of looking for storm clouds on the horizon, I'm living day by day, 'working the work' that goes into making a marriage work, being mutually available and supportive to each other. My first marriage doesn't leave me with a lot of great memories, amazing considering it lasted 14 years. My second, moving towards eight years, has lots of wonderful, memorable moments and a lot less tension.

 
Most of the guys here (obviously) are different than the 'John Does'--the guys who might be more inclined to marry the girl next door and buy a pink house with white picket fence. Obviously, we're 'a little out there', risk takers and like me, even if burned once, might be twice shy, but still not afraid to get back to the same area, looking for a good wife a second time. None of this is simple or 'matter of fact.' There's lots of misconceptions, but even given that, I think you're off base on this thread and over generalizing.
 
As for:
 
examining life (that means LIVING, not visiting) in a different country, looking more broadly and deeply into the social, political, and economic differences of other countries versus the USA, is an absolute waste of time

 
Quite the contrary--I think such open mindedness ought to be a requirement. Children and adults in the USA rank among the world's most uninformed people in the world regarding culture, life and in general, geography of other nations.

[beulah]

Zon, Robert is correct.   Those last comments must be confused.  You make it sound like finding a good foreign wife is a slamdunk.  Most of what I've read here doesn't support that position, moreover women with good intentions may turn sour if the husband  isn't attentive enough.  I don't see how this can be considered easy.  I've read many stories of marriages not working out so I salute people like Robert and all the others that have made the efforts,  which you have not.

[Zon]

As I started out at the top of this post: I am not against marriage.  However, I do not NEED it, and I do not view marriage as some kind of Olympic accomplishment.   (Need I remind everybody that some here have been married 2, 3, 4 times?)

Thus my post - COME ON (this place is so fearful of a little truth)!   If I wanted to find a garden variety wife, come back to live in the Good Ole USA, and roll the dice to see how long it would last 5 - 10 - forever ... THAT can be done with great ease.  And, I am not superman - ANY MAN WITH A PULSE (and a small wallet) can do it too.

For me, I may not ever get married ... and, I don't sweat that one bit.  That does NOT mean I lack friendship, love, sex, interesting company.  There is more than one way to skin a cat. This is an idea that seems to be odd to most of you?

[beulah]

- COME ON (this place is so fearful of a little truth)!   If I wanted to find a garden variety wife, come back to live in the Good Ole USA, and roll the dice to see how long it would last

What truth?

From what I've seen through avatars and other photos these "garden variety" as you label them, women are beautiful and the men are older and ordinary in appearence.
 Your thoughts are strange and makes me wonder what kind of bad exeriences you have had to now harbor such resentment toward these women.

[Zon]

A little sobriety would go a long way, but I doubt very much we will see it here.  It is my view that members here wear rose color glasses most of the time.  Others are just too sensitive for anything but the most romanticism version of reality.

The truth is obvious, and predictable ... 

• Most (almost all) AM are FLOORED by the level of female beauty that is common in South America and Eastern Europe, and Asia (especially compared to USA where fat, zero femininity is the norm);
• Most AM are grateful beyond words to have attention and a real chance with these women (especially compared with the dating scene in the USA - especially for men over the age of 35 in the USA) - even if they are poor, uneducated, and come from a difficult life (broken family).  This is the majority of women you will find interested in meeting a foreigner for the purpose of marriage in a very short time. This is probably the majority of women who have become married to foreigners.  This does not to suggest these women are undesirable!  I have had my share of "nice" relationships with women like this. But, there is nothing rare or difficult here.

To find a wife from these groups is pretty VERY damn easy. 

If the same caliber of men tried to date Colombian women that were attractive, educated, employed, and from a good family ... well, that is a different story entirely.

These observations do not reflect a "bad attitude," just common facts from one who has lived a substantial amount of time in Colombia.  It is also true that most men who have the ability to stay in places like Colombia, even though they go at first with the intention of finding that "special flower," decide on a life of "special flowers."  This is not evil, just a style of life that other locations afford.  I think it is best to have too many choices than not enough.

[fathertime]

   I've read many stories of marriages not working out so I salute people like Robert and all the others that have made the efforts,  which you have not.

You are right behlah, zon doesn't know very much about effort/committment and that is why he is still home alone, while many of us have married and moved beyond the 1st grade basics he belabors.   


I'd wager what zon is going to do is something far more difficult and profound, then the rest of us pathetic wife-hunters.  In the future he will be  busy splashing around his porn money until his probing snout locates an innocent or gullible brown-skinned young woman to fall for his absurd act, which has fallen flat in the USA. 

The ultimate result will be a disadvantaged woman 'accidently' pregnant, without a committed husband and zon will be giddy and giggling just like he was last time he thought this happened.  That is much much better than all us rather committed men doing the best we can with our young well taken care of wives. 


For Zon this thread was always about undermining marriage, and the men that have partaken.  As usual he has not succeeded and plays the role of novice dodo.      [size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime!   

[whitey]

I agree with what FT said.

Don't try to blame your own shortcomings or your lack of success with women on this so called "feminism" epidemic. Quit lying to yourself.  If you got bullied around by some of these "feminists" at some point in your life, then you damn well deserved it for not having any balls.  And going to another country to find a mate isn't going to magically make your balls grow back.

Well, I do blame the end of my first marriage in large part on feminism, or for lack of a better word, the modern female attitude in much of the western world.


I did allow myself to be bullied somewhat ... that's something I accept the blame for. It's also the behaviour by women that men are currently "supposed" to not just tolerate, but expected to embrace.  It's completely part of our culture now, the current mores, and imposed on young boys starting in school.


And ... yes, magically, my balls did grow back after I went down to Colombia.  Wait a sec ... checking ... yep, there they are. 


Having been raised and spending my entire life in North America, I didn't realize that there were still cultures in which men and women could relate in a more normal, "traditional" , with men and women each being valued for their unique traits and what they bring to the table in a relationship.