The Value of Marriage ...

[Zon]

• Is marriage necessary? 
• Is it a wise decision in the first place - all things being equal?

I know.  I know.  This place is full of marriage fans no matter what.  For my part, I try to accurately observe the truth of things and the probabilities.  These discussions have to do with trends and social facts.  Would I ever get married? YES.  Under the right conditions, and to the right person, and NOT in the USA.  Do I feel that marriage is necessary to have lived a complete, fulfilled life?  NO

What prompted this post was a very negative read I had this AM.  However, there is more truth in the article than falsehoods.   I'm just saying...

http://www.returnofkings.com/6044/marriage-is-just-plain-tedious

[robert angel]

• Is marriage necessary? 
• Is it a wise decision in the first place - all things being equal?

I know.  I know.  This place is full of marriage fans no matter what.  For my part, I try to accurately observe the truth of things and the probabilities.  These discussions have to do with trends and social facts.  Would I ever get married? YES.  Under the right conditions, and to the right person, and NOT in the USA.  Do I feel that marriage is necessary to have lived a complete, fulfilled life?  NO

What prompted this post was a very negative read I had this AM.  However, there is more truth in the article than falsehoods.   I'm just saying...

Whether marriage is necessary and just how valuable it is is completely dependent on the individuals involved and how they weigh the pros and cons. In some cases--places--a lot depends on the nation. In some European nations, notably Scandinavia--Sweden--that area, marriage is a much less frequently exercised option.  In most nations, people are putting off marriage until they're older in recent times.
 
I see more and more Filipinas in their nation  purposely living with guys and having children outside of marriage because once married, it typically takes seven years to see whether or not you can have a marriage anulled. There's no legal divorce there and an anullment is more expensive than many USA divorces.
 
The value? Once again that depends. I knew one guy who supposedly had it all figured out in a very 'nuts and bolts' sort of way. Not romantic to say the least, he figured the costs of bringing a bride over, feeding, clothing her, getting her a car etc, then he figured the value of her cooking, cleaning, sex and other things and as I recall, after a few years, this rake of a guy figured he'd gotten his money's worth and would usually get a divorce and find another bride.
 
Personally, while I am a bit of a pessimist on thinking anything lasts forever, I increasingly value marriage for companionship, for always having someone there and my being there for them, as a sounding board to compliment each other and to call one another out (appropriately) when need be. A lot of folks praise my wife for her personality, work ethic and attractiveness, but it's not what they say or how they see her that really matters so much to me--it's more how she is--how she acts around me. We keep our social circle of friends very small. If she was quick to anger and slow to get over it, I'd find our life together much less attractive.
 
I suppose what makes me value our marriage and my wife as a person, is mostly for the things she isn't--the things she doesn't do and the ways she's not like most women, including those from her own nation.

[beulah]

I read the article and was not impressed.  For one thing it is not written in stone that anybody has to stay married.  That is how I view, and I was married for 21 years to a beautiful coed freshman year of college.  It was a great run.  No major regrets. 

The website advertised porn at the top of the page and the author of the article says he hasn't been married.  He does not know very much about which he speaks and I found nothing of value in the article.

[Ray]

If you want a visa for her, then get married. That's the law, whether you like it or not...
 
If Emperor Obama gets his way, then gays will be able to petition their gay lovers for a visa.   
 
So take your pick: Marry a female or find a gay lover.
 
If you don't want a visa for him/her, then who cares what you do?
 
 
Ray
 
 

[whitey]

I guess I'm old fashioned ... I like being married to the right person and sharing my life with someone.  I could live without a wife or companion, but for me it would be a two-dimensional existence.   


I don't regret my first marriage, just the length of it.

[fathertime]

'return of kings' really silly and basic website, tailored for 18-34 year olds...


as robertangel said, it all depends on the 2 individuals in the marriage...if you don't have what it takes don't even TRY to play... live alone and stop all the grumbling about all the 'terrible'women the world round. ..who the heck cares?




Fathertime!   

[A_Thomas]

 Actually Roosh V is one of the so-called leaders of the Men's Rights Movement. He advocates "Picking Them Up and Throwing Them Down" (Like Dominoes).


 Here's something a member of this forum wrote to me -


 

Do you read Roosh V’s site or his blog Return of the Kings? He is an extremely intelligent guy, but needs some serious healing. I enjoy reading it, but I get angry sometimes. No woman can ever meet their standards. Maybe they do it on purpose, like “they are not worthy so let’s just use them”.[/size]

[size=78%] [/size] I completely agree with her, most MRA's are frustrated, angry, average men and look at Roosh as a hero as they frequently post his You Tube videos on various Men friendly sites around the web and praise him on is own forum - http://www.rooshv.com/ However I doubt you would come into contact with many of these people, only 3-8% of men who contact women on an international dating site actually get on the plane to visit her. Most men are stuck on dating AW/UK/CA women.

[braziliangirl]

There you go, A!


I read this somewhere and that's exactly how I feel:

No, I am pro-equality which was the original intent of the Women's Movement AND the Civil Rights Movement.

I actually posted about that here recently.

That is exactly how I see things. I'm thankful for early feminism because of the basic rights I got, but things went out of control. I just can't believe your divorce laws, or the false rape accusations that are always taken in consideration. But it also worries me that hate is going for both sides. The manosphere is getting more and more full of anti-woman speech, not just anti-feminism. It went from hating a certain type of man/woman from hating everyone from the opposite gender. It's the end of the world. 

And got a reply saying I was wrong. Roosh and his minions are a perfect example of what I trying to say. It may not happen here, but in a lot of places around the internet there is anti-woman speech. If you read his blog, forum or RoK, as I did, trying to see the Big Board (Dr. Strangelove reference ), you'll find that there is no good woman in their opinion. We're all dumb, illogical, irrational, feminazis... No matter where we are from. So, PL, in that sense, comforts me. Here I still find examples of men that like women.

[Alabamaboy!]

The value of marriage comes when two people want to have things like a "family" and a "home". It is very, very difficult to have a "family" if it is just a single guy. He can have kids without being married. But it is very difficult to do all the family kind of things like be the bread winner, chef, sports guy, tend to sick kids, read them bed time stories, go on vacations, kiss their boo-boos, take a walk with them, or a nap...all those sorts of things. Now that I am married, all of those things happen with relative ease. And the house ends up feeling like a "home". Nobody is working excessively or neglecting any part of their lives. The value is when two people are doing their part and building a better life for everyone in the home. 1+1 = 3 kind of bonus.

I have been single, married to the wrong person, divorced but with money to play around, and now married again to the right person. I can tell you without a doubt that I prefer my life now over any other time.

If a guy is not interested in having a family or a home, I agree it is probably better to stay single if you have enough money and time to travel and date many women

[robert angel]

If a guy is not interested in having a family or a home, I agree it is probably better to stay single if you have enough money and time to travel and date many women

One of the things that you have to get used to when you get married is that typically 'your  time' really isn't 'all yours' anymore. Whenever you go somewhere or plan to do something, you need to include your wife in the scenario beforehand. Even when it was just me and my sons, I would easily just take off on the spur of the moment with them and go to the beach, on out of state trips etc.
 
Now, even if I've told my wife I'm going to get milk, I can't get three blocks from our house without her calling to get on me a bit if I forgot to kiss her good bye.....
 
So if you fiercely guard your independence, you might want to think twice. Also, as AB points out, your house will become a home. I sometimes miss the old days, without window curtains, with the pizza boxes, Chinese takeout containers, paper plates, X Box and Playstations in the living room, etc., but overall, even my sons admit things are a lot better now!
 
We had the whole 'mancave' thing going on before...

[Zon]

Roosh and his minions are a perfect example of what I trying to say. It may not happen here, but in a lot of places around the internet there is anti-woman speech. If you read his blog, forum or RoK, as I did, trying to see the Big Board (Dr. Strangelove reference ), you'll find that there is no good woman in their opinion.

I read Return of Kings as I do this site, because I am interested in the subject matters: travel; dating; men's health and issues. I have read some excellent posts on ROK and Here.  I have also seen things that I do not understand, or that do not apply to me.   But the value of reading (and meeting people) is not to find a homogeneous group of sameness - at least it is not for me.


Myself and most men here, have been in long term relationships, marriages at least once.  Most of the writers on RooshV and ROK seem to be younger ... and I am a little out of touch with their social references. 
- Sometimes there is a bitterness towards women.   
- There is an over pre-occupation with getting laid (at all costs).


But, like here, there are similar interests too.   And, there are some intelligent writers and unique perspectives.


REGARDING THE OP - Value of Marriage.  I should have added a qualifier "Value of Marriage IN AMERICA."    The points that the article did make are based in general truths and trends.  Marriage today is not what it was 30, or 60 years ago. 


Here is an interesting question to ponder:  "Out of 20 friends that you have known for more than 20 years, how many do you guess are happily married after the 10th year?"  I was surprised by the number 7 very happily married (higher than I would have guessed without thinking hard.   6 divorced and single.  3 in unhappy marriages.  the rest are in a "let's not rock the boat" type of thing. 

[Bob_S]

• Is marriage necessary?[/l][/l]

No.  My motto is: It sucks to be alone, but it's worse to be with a bad match.

• Is it a wise decision in the first place - all things being equal?

It depends on the individual.  I never was very good at being a bachelor.  I'm wired for hearth and home.  But I know guys who truly should never get married.  They may be good guys, but they would be a curse on some poor woman.

What prompted this post was a very negative read I had this AM.  However, there is more truth in the article than falsehoods.   I'm just saying...
http://www.returnofkings.com/6044/marriage-is-just-plain-tedious

Dewd, don't read crap like that.  It only applies to guys considering marriage to a Western Woman (American, Canadian, Brit, Aussie).  By definition, it does not apply to us.  Yes, a lot of it is true which is why we are HERE.[/list]

[Zon]

"Dewd, don't read crap like that.  It only applies to guys considering marriage to a Western Woman (American, Canadian, Brit, Aussie).  By definition, it does not apply to us.  Yes, a lot of it is true which is why we are HERE"


LOL ... it applied to western men marrying western women.  It also applies - maybe to a lesser degree - to western men marrying foreign woman, and then transplanting these women in the USA.

[fathertime]

 


Here is an interesting question to ponder:  "Out of 20 friends that you have known for more than 20 years, how many do you guess are happily married after the 10th year?"  I was surprised by the number 7 very happily married (higher than I would have guessed without thinking hard.   6 divorced and single.  3 in unhappy marriages.  the rest are in a "let's not rock the boat" type of thing.

so you went around a surveyed all your friends about their marriages.  very weird for a 50 year old to be so damn confused that he has to find out what everybody else is doing
if you feel like you have to be happy all the time and that is of utmost  importance, then just don't get married if you don't want to.[size=78%].[/size]

The value of marriage comes when two people want to have things like a "family" and a "home"

For me, that is the main reason to get hitched.

One of the things that you have to get used to when you get married is that typically 'your  time' really isn't 'all yours' anymore. Whenever you go somewhere or plan to do something, you need to include your wife in the scenario beforehand. Even when it was just me and my sons, I would easily just take off on the spur of the moment with them and go to the beach, on out of state trips etc.
 
.
 
So if you fiercely guard your independence, you might want to think twice. Also, as AB points out, your house will become a home. I sometimes miss the old days, without window curtains, with the pizza boxes, Chinese takeout containers, paper plates, X Box and Playstations in the living room, etc., but overall, even my sons admit things are a lot better now!
  .

I relate to many aspects of this post


Fathertime! 

[Zon]

FT - you have been calling me 50 years old for almost 5 years, and I am still not there yet.  You have a strange obsession with me and my age.

And, is it really unusual to contemplate the current institution of marriage?  It's social health; how its changed; its current legal and financial contingencies ... its probability for success.   REALLY?

How is it so "normal" or "better" to run virtually blind into any human pairing?   This is the type of behavior that you applaud.  For what purpose?   

[fathertime]

FT - you have been calling me 50 years old for almost 5 years, and I am still not there yet.  You have a strange obsession with me and my age.

And, is it really unusual to contemplate the current institution of marriage?  It's social health; how its changed; its current legal and financial contingencies ... its probability for success.   REALLY?

How is it so "normal" or "better" to run virtually blind into any human pairing?   This is the type of behavior that you applaud.  For what purpose?   

I say quit hiding behind opinions on the ‘return of kings’website which sounds like a game of dungeons and dragons, and is designed for very young men. 50 year old men should have their shyt together and at least know what the hell they want to do with their 10-15 good strong years that remain.  Face it, you have squandered away damn near all your time, in ‘deep contemplation’ about nothing. Women don’t like, respect, or want to be with 50 year old giggling dodo’s that lack the courage to make a commitment.  I don't blame them and it reeks of fear. 

Marriage, either you do it or you don’t.  Nobody really cares.  I think your opinions come from not being able to do it yourself therefore it is a sucky idea in your mind.  You have missed the boat big time, and you have nobody to blame but your wishy washy self, although you will find a way to put this on     all those ‘bad women’.       

What happened to ‘ignoring’ me? If that was what you wanted to do, I was ok with that.

Fathertime!   

[A_Thomas]

I say quit hiding behind opinions on the ‘return of kings’website which sounds like a game of dungeons and dragons, and is designed for very young men. 50 year old men should have their shyt together and at least know what the hell they want to do with their 10-15 good strong years that remain.  Face it, you have squandered away damn near all your time, in ‘deep contemplation’ about nothing. Women don’t like, respect, or want to be with 50 year old giggling dodo’s that lack the courage to make a commitment.  I don't blame them and it reeks of fear. 

Marriage, either you do it or you don’t.  Nobody really cares.  I think your opinions come from not being able to do it yourself therefore it is a sucky idea in your mind.  You have missed the boat big time, and you have nobody to blame but your wishy washy self, although you will find a way to put this on     all those ‘bad women’.       

What happened to ‘ignoring’ me? If that was what you wanted to do, I was ok with that.

Fathertime!   

 Keeping It 100 Fathertime!


 Nobody is forcing anybody to get married. In Western society its a cultural norm. In Latin Culture its a cultural norm. Now if you don't agree with that, don't get married. But don't try to sell the rest of us on being relationships without binding agreements.


 

[Stevieboy]

I say quit hiding behind opinions on the ‘return of kings’website which sounds like a game of dungeons and dragons, and is designed for very young men. 50 year old men should have their shyt together and at least know what the hell they want to do with their 10-15 good strong years that remain.  Face it, you have squandered away damn near all your time, in ‘deep contemplation’ about nothing. Women don’t like, respect, or want to be with 50 year old giggling dodo’s that lack the courage to make a commitment.  I don't blame them and it reeks of fear. 

Marriage, either you do it or you don’t.  Nobody really cares.  I think your opinions come from not being able to do it yourself therefore it is a sucky idea in your mind.  You have missed the boat big time, and you have nobody to blame but your wishy washy self, although you will find a way to put this on     all those ‘bad women’.       

What happened to ‘ignoring’ me? If that was what you wanted to do, I was ok with that.

Fathertime!   

.
So, Zon said again he's not 50 years old, and you even quote it and continue to call him 50. I've read many posts by this guy and still can't find what the big deal is about poeple who react negatively to him. I actually agree with some of what he says even though I'm the marrying kind of guy. Am I missing something, or is this just a bunch of squabbling over nothing like women do? Zing!

[beulah]

To post and boost a website that is promoting porn for it's money and that has a very one dimensional and immature viewpoint just demonstrates a level of immaurity from the OP.   If I am going to be influenced it will be from a peer that has experience, not some blockheads on a kids website.

It seems like the guy is constantly sell a viewpoint, to what end I don't know.

[Stevieboy]

.
 Where am I? Is this a man's site?   

[Zon]

Where am I? Is this a man's site?   

The fact that you had to ask the question, gives the answer.

To post and boost a website that is promoting porn for it's money and that has a very one dimensional and immature viewpoint just demonstrates a level of immaurity from the OP.   If I am going to be influenced it will be from a peer that has experience, not some blockheads on a kids website.

1, You have a very broad and generous view of "porn."  If you think it is pornographic for men to write dating books, then this place could pass your porn test.

2, If one is to read a selection of posts from that board, I think most would be impressed with the intelligence  experience, unique perspectives, and controversial subject matter.   BUT AGAIN, I do not own the same delicate ears that many here ... I am well able to read an article and disagree with premises and conclusions without feeling a need to ignore other valid points  or interesting views.

It seems like the guy is constantly sell a viewpoint, to what end I don't know.

That is not true.  I simply state my experiences or observations.   I am human and I have made a world of mistakes. Just last year, I was out of my mind - ! STUPIFIED ! - for a Ukrainian woman.  I said, and behaved, entirely the opposite of what I encourage others.  I was weak and did not keep a balanced perspective. So, I wish I had a forceful ZON talking to me then. LOL

[beulah]

.
 Where am I? Is this a man's site?   

I don't know where you are.  It could be helpful if you can tell me how you came to your conclusion.

My earlier point was that I don't trust a website where the viewpoint is clearly anti marriage and there money is coming in from pornagraphy. That smells like a conflict of interest to me.  Generally I'm not taking viewpoints very seriously from that class of people. 

 @zon.  When I clicked on your link there was a clickable link on top of the page that was for porn, not a book maybe that link rotates and changes.  I don't care except that I think it reeks of conflict of interest.  Also I do think constant porn users are the sissies, I want the real thing and porn is an obstruction. 

[Stevieboy]

I don't know where you are.  It could be helpful if you can tell me how you came to your conclusion.

My earlier point was that I don't trust a website where the viewpoint is clearly anti marriage and there money is coming in from pornagraphy. That smells like a conflict of interest to me.  Generally I'm not taking viewpoints very seriously from that class of people. 

 @zon.  When I clicked on your link there was a clickable link on top of the page that was for porn, not a book maybe that link rotates and changes.  I don't care except that I think it reeks of conflict of interest.  Also I do think constant porn users are the sissies, I want the real thing and porn is an obstruction.

.
That was my point. I thought this site was for guys talking like guys, but then you just said constant porn users are sissies. Dude, what time and generation are you from? Men who watch porn are sissies? Why not just say men who jerk off are sissies too. Of course most men want the real thing, that's why men watch porn.  I noticed your name is beaulah. Are you a man or a woman? 

[beulah]

.
That was my point. I thought this site was for guys talking like guys, but then you just said constant porn users are sissies. Dude, what time and generation are you from? Men who watch porn are sissies? Why not just say men who jerk off are sissies too. Of course most men want the real thing, that's why men watch porn.  I noticed your name is beaulah. Are you a man or a woman?

Really, now I'm a woman because I think constant porn users and angry masterbators are sissies?  That is what it looks to me the other website wants as customers.  I'm not sure how guys talk where you are from but I'm giving you my opinions.  I guess you don't like them. No problem.

[Zon]

This place is well established for being rather narrow minded and intolerant.  Of course there are 5 or 6 posters that do not fall under this description, but many are knee-jerk single issue types (as this post is showing ONCE AGAIN).


So, I re-visited this evil, porn site to see if my take was really that off - base ... I found this recent post.   If this type of experience (we call it trip report here) was written on this site - everyone would applaud it because of its content. 


http://www.returnofkings.com/7543/american-girls-have-no-game


To me this article is another expression - the same, but different - than the main themes that are expressed here over and over again.