Learning Spanish and Portuguese together - doable?

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Hi everyone,

For those who read my intro thread on the introductions board, you'll recall I mentioned being torn between Colombia and Brazil.  Since it will be several years before I leave to teach English at, and live in, my chosen location, I'm doing everything I can to become as fluent as possible in the language of the land.  I am already quite familiar with Espanol, rating fluency I'd put myself somewhere between beginner and intermediate, but since Brazil holds a ton of appeal for me I'd also like to learn Portuguese.  Thus, I am trying to decide if I should try learning both languages at the same time.

Has anyone here done anything like this?  Most of what I read online indicates that it would be too confusing to learn both simultaneously, but I was hoping to get your thoughts on this, as well as any tips/suggestions for succeeding at such an endeavor.

Looking forward to your input.  Thanks!

[braziliangirl]

You could try, but I think it's extremely difficult due to the similarities. Go with spanish, which is more useful for you, then try Portuguese. Learning Spanish will probably make learning Portuguese easier.
What really worries me is if do you plan to support yourself financially just with the English classes. I don't think it's doable in Brazil...
 

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Thanks for the reply BG.  I suppose I'll eventually have to decide which one is more important, depending on where I want to live, and focus on that.

As far as teaching English goes I haven't seen anything on ESLCafe or anywhere else that indicates one can't at least break even and support themselves teaching in Brazil...  though it goes without saying that the first year or two will probably be the most difficult as you're getting established and having to take the lowest end jobs just to get started.  I will have a sizable nest-egg saved up before the time comes to leave which, if necessary, would be enough to support me for at least a couple of years even if I were completely unemployed, so that will play a big part in making this all work out. 

Like in any other place, you start at the bottom, get experience, network and prove your abilities, and then move into a higher-paying position.  But to fully answer your question, teaching English isn't the only part of this plan, it's just the thing that will get my foot in the door for living in the country of my choice and meeting lots of new people, including (hopefully) my future significant other.  I do have other interests and experience that I hope will open other doors for me once I'm established, such as Fitness/Personal Training and many years of IT experience.

[Brazilophile]

I learned Spanish and then learned Portuguese.  I believe trying to learn the two languages simultaneously is NOT doable for most people, but can be for some people.  Those people must be very disciplined and commit to a fairly intense learning schedule.  I would suggest studying the same topic in both languages at the same time.  For example, study the past tense for Spanish and Portuguese together.  Do not study the past tense for Spanish and the future tense for Portuguese.  This way you can learn the similarities and differences between the two languages more systematically.  I think you will need to study DAILY for several hours a day.  If you can't put in, say, 4 hours a day, EVERYDAY, then it would be better to focus on one language at a time.  Good luck!

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Thanks Brazilophile, not a bad idea.  I'm also wondering what it would be like to maybe study one language for one week, then the other the next week (same subject matter as you stated), switching back and forth weekly.  Either way I can put at least a couple hours a day into full-fledged studying, more on the weekends.  What I've been doing with Spanish is listening to Spanish radio stations all day at work every day, my ear is really beginning to become familiar and it no longer sounds as fast and incoherent as it used to... perhaps doing this with Portuguese would be a way to get started too?

Oh and BG - got your PM but I can't reply/send PM's yet it seems.  How many posts do I need before I can do so?  At any rate thanks for your thoughts and no worries.  Perhaps we can help each other with our language endeavors down the road, good luck with your studies! 

[Ray]

Everyone has his or her own level of aptitude for learning a new language, so your question is not really applicable to everyone. Personally, one language at a time is more than enough for me to handle.
　
I did meet a lady in my Tagalog class at the local community college who was studying 5 foreign languages at the same time and she said she wasn’t overwhelmed by it.
　
I guess the best way for you to find out is to give it a try and see what happens. I think Brazilophile offered some sound advice.
　
Ray
　

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Thanks Ray.  5 languages at once?  WOW.  Were they all similar (i.e. 5 romance languages)?

I started trying to study them side-by-side tonight as BP suggested, so we'll see how it goes.  Tomorrow at work I'll probably listen to Spanish Radio in the morning (been listening to both Radio Isla in Puerto Rico and W Radio in Bogota), and in the afternoon switch to a station in Brazil.  Gotta keep training those ears!

I'm thinking if this works out, studying them side-by-side like this will allow me to see the differences with each item right off the bat instead of learning one and then having to "unlearn" things to get the hang of the other.  Wish me luck!

[htown]

Interesting.  Let us know how it goes.  If it works out for you I may try to study two similar languages simultaneously.  Maybe portuguese and catalan, french, or italian.
 
One thing I've noticed is that since I'm pretty fluent in spanish I'm able to read and comprehend written portuguese but not understand spoken portuguese, eventhough I've never studied portuguese in my life.

[Bob_S]

Oh and BG - got your PM but I can't reply/send PM's yet it seems.  How many posts do I need before I can do so?

Just a few more.  You're almost there.
~Mod Bob

[benjio]

What I hate more than anything is when people tell me Portuguese is easy to learn if you're already fluent in Spanish, which is complete BS. Being someone who's studied both languages for a while now, I'd say it would be impossible not to confuse the differences between the two while trying to learn both simultaneously. I'm far from the sharpest pencil in the school box though...some people just have a knack for learning languages. Give it a shot! Best of luck to you.

[robert angel]

My Spanish is so bad that I have problems ordering at Taco Bell. It's so bad that I would add Spanish accents to my English and just try to add 'io' or 'ia'to a lot of words--ie --"Taxio--Por favore?"- "Pharmacia, por favor?"-actually in my mind, adding the Italian 'E' to 'Favor'! I must have inflamed vowelitis. Dumb, dumb, dumb I know.... But from what I've read and seen, most folks do best on learning Spanish AND Portuguese if they're pretty tight on their Spanish first for at least a couple years and THEN take on Portuguese. Then they don't get as hung up on the niggling little differences.
 
Everyone's different and some folk's minds are better 'wired' for learning multiple languages, even more than one at a time--so there are no absolutes.
 
All I can say with any expertise is regardless of where you travel, at least try and learn to say, these words: 'please', 'thank you', 'hello' and 'good bye'. Wherever I've been, the people there seemed to appreciate my efforts, or at least got some comic relief from them.
Oh--and thank your lucky stars that the word  'immodium' is the same world wide!

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

htown - Sounds interesting, I've had people tell me that Portuguese and French sound similar (though I don't know anything about French to be honest)

Bob - cool thanks!

benjio - I can certainly feel my brain getting a bit twisted trying to separate them, hopefully doing as BP suggested will allow me to separate everything bit by bit.  We'll see!

Robert - I've known some Spanish for about 15 years and have gotten much more comfortable with it over the last couple of months... hopefully that will give me some kind of base to succeed in studying both.

[braziliangirl]

What I hate more than anything is when people tell me Portuguese is easy to learn if you're already fluent in Spanish, which is complete BS.

It's not easy, but it is definitely easier... Right? How much of portuguese do you think one can understand just by knowing Spanish?

[braziliangirl]

I've had people tell me that Portuguese and French sound similar (though I don't know anything about French to be honest)

Not really...

[benjio]

It's not easy, but it is definitely easier... Right? How much of portuguese do you think one can understand just by knowing Spanish?

Perhaps learning the fundamentals of verb conjugation, but that's the only advantage I've ever recognized from being fluent in Spanish before trying to learn Portuguese. Don't get me wrong...that's a big deal, but there are too many other differences between the two languages. The Portuguese Verb ficar for instance, does not have an equivalent in ANY language as far as I know. It can be associated with a dozen different ideas depending on the context.
 
I've also heard the same thing about Portuguese sounding like, or having a similar pronounciations to French. More nonsense. I'm not sure why people always want to compare Portuguese to other romance languages, as French, Italian and Spanish all have much more in common with each other. IMHO, although it was developed from the same root language, Portuguese stands alone. People also have to take into consideration that the Portuguese spoken in Brazil has been greatly influenced by the languages of African Slaves brought here and the Native Americans that lived here before the Portuguese Conquistadors arrived.
 
From all the time I've spent in Brazil, I've discovered that people here can usually understand most Spanish VERY easily when they listen closely, but when they respond, native Spanish speakers are sometimes completely lost (not all the time). It's just so hard to get pass the accent. This is just from my experience though.
 
Another thing that blows my mind is how much the accent in the north differs from that of the South. Even people in Rio and Sao Paulo speak differently. You don't even have to be fluent in Portuguese to notice to difference.
 
 

[Brazilophile]

Perhaps learning the fundamentals of verb conjugation, but that's the only advantage I've ever recognized from being fluent in Spanish before trying to learn Portuguese. Don't get me wrong...that's a big deal, but there are too many other differences between the two languages.

 I have found many other advantages that outweigh the differences.  The gender of nouns and their adjectives is very similar in the two languages.  The order of words in a sentence is very similar.  The stressed syllable in a word is almost the same.  The use of 'ser' versus 'estar' in Portuguese is identical to that of 'ser' versus 'estar' in Spanish.  etc.       

 

I've also heard the same thing about Portuguese sounding like, or having a similar pronounciations to French. More nonsense.

 
 Strongly agreed!

 

Another thing that blows my mind is how much the accent in the north differs from that of the South. Even people in Rio and Sao Paulo speak differently. You don't even have to be fluent in Portuguese to notice to difference.

 I noticed that as did the Brazilians with whom I spoke.  My first teacher was from Rio.  Several people in Salvador and Recife remarked that I spoke like a carioca.  I met Brazilians who spoke a Portuguese that was easy for me to understand.  And I met others who spoke a Portuguese that I could not understand to save my life.  I found that many in the Northeast drop the 'r' at the end of syllables.  (eg. Salvadoh instead of Salvador.)  Some Brazilians had difficulty understanding me because I DIDN'T drop the 'r' at the end of syllables.
 
 I found that the biggest difference between Spanish and Portuguese that makes it difficult to learn both at the same time is pronunciation.  There are many instances of identical words being pronounced completely differently.  The 'rr' is one dramatic example.  It is an emphasized rolled 'r' in Spanish but pronounced like an 'h' in Portuguese.  Someone who knows Spanish will be able to read Portuguese with ease.  But will have great difficulty understanding spoken Portuguese.
 
 

[thedream2012]

You could try, but I think it's extremely difficult due to the similarities. Go with spanish, which is more useful for you, then try Portuguese. Learning Spanish will probably make learning Portuguese easier.
What really worries me is if do you plan to support yourself financially just with the English classes. I don't think it's doable in Brazil...

Hello, braziliangirl.  I have learned a lot about your country from your informative posts.  I'm interested in visiting and maybe even moving to Brazil.  Are there any good employment opportunities for foreigners?  For the record I am an American that speaks English and Spanish.  Thanks in advance. 

[braziliangirl]

Hello, braziliangirl.  I have learned a lot about your country from your informative posts.  I'm interested in visiting and maybe even moving to Brazil.  Are there any good employment opportunities for foreigners?  For the record I am an American that speaks English and Spanish.  Thanks in advance.

Hi Thedream,
Thanks for reading and taking my posts in consideration.
I see some foreigners employed around here. Due to my field of work, most of the ones I see are in the research field, and all speak Portuguese at at least what we call working level. Generally, even in other fields, the ones that don't speak Portuguese were sent by their foreign companies.
English teachers don't make a lot of money, and even those need to speak Portuguese... I guess most of the Americans and Europeans who move here open small businesses instead of looking for a job.
I sugest you visit first, ask around, take a look at catho.com.br, indeed.com.br to see what they ask for the job you want, then make a decision about moving and where.

[thedream2012]

Hi Thedream,
Thanks for reading and taking my posts in consideration.
I see some foreigners employed around here. Due to my field of work, most of the ones I see are in the research field, and all speak Portuguese at at least what we call working level. Generally, even in other fields, the ones that don't speak Portuguese were sent by their foreign companies.
English teachers don't make a lot of money, and even those need to speak Portuguese... I guess most of the Americans and Europeans who move here open small businesses instead of looking for a job.
I sugest you visit first, ask around, take a look at catho.com.br, indeed.com.br to see what they ask for the job you want, then make a decision about moving and where.

Thanks for the guidance brziliangirl.  I'll do more research.   

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Hola amigos, just thought I'd give a little update...

So far I have to say that things are going very well!  I feel like my knowledge of Spanish has really started to take off -- I can understand so much more than I was able to even a few weeks ago and when I go to speak, a lot of what I say seems to almost flow out of me automatically whereas before I really hesitated and had to think for a bit about everything I wanted to say.  There is a girl here at work who speaks Spanish so every now and then we chat for a bit.  Her husband nor any of her friends speak it so it's a good chance for her to keep in practice as well!

As far as Portuguese goes, I think learning Porto along with Spanish is working out really nicely.  Every time I study something in Spanish I follow up with review in Portuguese (in similar fashion to what BP suggested).  I think this is really allowing me to see the differences between the languages straight out of the gate and is giving me a good elementary knowledge of how the Brazilian Portuguese accent works.  I've been keeping it pretty basic so far but it's been quite a bit easier to keep the two separated than I originally imagined it would be.

I've been spending half the day at work listening to Spanish radio, then the other half listening to Brazilian stations.  I might not understand most of what's being said but I am becoming really comfortable listening to the languages and with both of them can pick out all the individual words most of the time.  None of it seems nearly as fast as it used to!  And, I'm able to follow along with the general conversations on the Spanish stations much better now.

Aside from all that, I find myself talking out loud to myself all the time.  At home, at work, walking around the store looking for things to buy.  When I do Spanish I find myself having full out conversations with myself... lol.

In short, so far so good!  There are so many similarities with these languanges that it's a pleasure learning them side by side, and enlightening seeing the differences when they pop up.

[V_Man]

Aside from all that, I find myself talking out loud to myself all the time.  At home, at work, walking around the store looking for things to buy.  When I do Spanish I find myself having full out conversations with myself... lol.

 


 

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Hahaha.... the price for succeeding in learning 2 languages at once?  INSANITY!!   

Nah, I don't make it THAT obvious lol...

[braziliangirl]

Don't worry, you're not the only insane. Sometimes I repeat words in English to myself until I can pronounce it properly (Although I avoid doing that in front of people  ). The result is that I get compliments from gringos all the time about my pronunciation.
Your insanity will pay off. In fact, you'll need that to learn all the diferent Rs in Spanish and Portuguese.