A Different Destination for a change - Ukraine

[Zon]

Tune in next week for another episode.

I am home and hung over - jet lag.  First day in the office and I want to work!   


Irina - Shhhh; she is still the center of all my thinking (never felt like this before).   But, I expect the next 72 hours to integrate my thoughts and feelings.  That was an AMAZING trip - many chapters.  The last couple days it was going great, better and better, and then the screen went black with the words "To Be Continued"


And, I will go back to see the sequel in a couple months

[htown]

That's the advantage of falling for a "good girl" homebody type as opposed to some party chick you meet in a disco or bar.  While you're away you don't have to worry about her going out drinking and partying around a bunch of other guys.

[aconcepts]

Ok Zon - so you duck out and leave the entertainment burden to Calipro and me -- thanks alot!!! jajajaja Glad to hear you had a good trip and it was a great report, I felt all the emotions, happiness, sadness, , confusion, love sick, disdain and longing" The 6 parts of overseas dating!

[Zon]

I have been back 3 days, and I still feel like [snip].


I could not want a woman more than "I"- impossible.  But, she is not going to be easy, or fast for me.   And, when I think of going forward with her, the thing that is killing me is the travel distance and time, time change, and jet lag.  It is going to kill my productivity.  Could it be any harder?

[fathertime]

I have been back 3 days, and I still feel like [snip].


I could not want a woman more than "I"- impossible.  But, she is not going to be easy, or fast for me.   And, when I think of going forward with her, the thing that is killing me is the travel distance and time, time change, and jet lag.  It is going to kill my productivity.  Could it be any harder?

i think that often  the awaytime from the woman... is time to think if you really want to follow through and marry or not...sometimes a man might reflect and think 'i'll take a pass' other times it is more like..."Get me back there NOW"....depends in part on if you are captivated or not....depends on what you want in your life for the future. 


Fathertime!

[Bob_S]

I could not want a woman more than "I"- impossible.  But, she is not going to be easy, or fast for me.   And, when I think of going forward with her, the thing that is killing me is the travel distance and time, time change, and jet lag.  It is going to kill my productivity.  Could it be any harder?

You'll get used to it.  Let's not forget that Admin Dan is married to a gal from Ukraine.  Get yourself a tablet loaded with e-pub books, music, videos, and work apps for the plane.

Oh, and hint: Call your gal "Irochka".  You may get a smile out of her.  You may have heard her family call her that already. 

[Zon]

i think that often  the awaytime from the woman... is time to think if you really want to follow through and marry or not...sometimes a man might reflect and think 'i'll take a pass' other times it is more like..."Get me back there NOW"....depends in part on if you are captivated or not....depends on what you want in your life for the future. 

Take a Pass / Get back Now ... I am smack dab in the middle having to GO BACK TO SEE WHAT THE F&#K HIT ME.   There is something not right, or everything is right, or I am just getting what I deserve: a well grounded woman that is testing me.  If I wanted something more easy, I would have gotten it already. 

[htown]

Any new developments on the Zon saga?

[InnocentVixen]

she sounds like such a good match, I am still rooting for her haha

[Zon]

she sounds like such a good match, I am still rooting for her haha

Well, that hurt!

Rooting for her?  It was me that needed all the rooting. 

Things went well our last week together.  I was like ALL the things I would advise others NOT to be - in want/need of her.    But, I put her phone number in my SKYPE incorrectly, so for the first 5 days apart there was no communication between us - even though I called a million times a day.   Then, there was a person on a different board that took it upon himself to find out who "I" was - small town, good description - and contact her warning her that I was posting on the internet about her and her family - oh! and the fact that I have dubious business interests too. Amazingly, he included a photo that I did not post publicly on the internet, but I did email to maybe 30 friends while I was gone for 2 months.   It just goes to show!

Since that time, our communication has slowed to a trickle.  It is not entirely over, but it would take a herculean effort.  And, did I mention she lives on the other side of the planet?  She is powerful medicine to me, and I am not quite sure how to take her.   Damn she is guarded!  But, my attraction to her is more than for a woman who is strongly passionate and inviting. 

We will see

[htown]

Don't give up Zon!  We're rooting for you!

[fathertime]

Well, that hurt!

Rooting for her?  It was me that needed all the rooting. 

Things went well our last week together.  I was like ALL the things I would advise others NOT to be - in want/need of her.    But, I put her phone number in my SKYPE incorrectly, so for the first 5 days apart there was no communication between us - even though I called a million times a day.   Then, there was a person on a different board that took it upon himself to find out who "I" was - small town, good description - and contact her warning her that I was posting on the internet about her and her family - oh! and the fact that I have dubious business interests too. Amazingly, he included a photo that I did not post publicly on the internet, but I did email to maybe 30 friends while I was gone for 2 months.   It just goes to show!

Since that time, our communication has slowed to a trickle.  It is not entirely over, but it would take a herculean effort.  And, did I mention she lives on the other side of the planet?  She is powerful medicine to me, and I am not quite sure how to take her.   Damn she is guarded!  But, my attraction to her is more than for a woman who is strongly passionate and inviting. 

We will see

yoyo...you should be getting your ass back there already or at least have a trip planned...who the hell has months and months to sit around and play games on video chat only.   based on what you are writing, it seems you have already given up before you got very far....


Fathertime!   

[Zon]

yoyo...you should be getting your ass back there already or at least have a trip planned...who the hell has months and months to sit around and play games on video chat only.   based on what you are writing, it seems you have already given up before you got very far....

Yes it does.  However the opposite is true. 


I have not really prioritized making money and developing security over these last several years.  I have been content to live in the now.  I realized when I was with "I" that I needed a whole bunch more cash flow - constant travel without suffering dips in income; houses in two places; kids fund for college; ect / ect)  So, I have been working my ZonZon assoff.  I got another 2 months 24 / 7 before my labors begin to payoff.


The whole experience gave me more business energy than I have had in years.   And, truthfully, the added ability to make a VERY GOOD living WHILE I am away is key to any serious relationship - with "I" or somebody else.


So, we will see.

[cid325]

Hey Zon what agencies did you use in ukraine, especially poltava, I prefer Clombians but have been to the Ukraine, it really comes down too  if the sparks fly, that of course is paramount!

[rmm1110]

55 days in Eastern Europe and Ukraine ...


I leave in 11 days, and thought it would be interesting to jot down abbreviated notes of my trip here, since this place has become both a gathering of my detractors and my travel journal over the years.  All new experiences are understood by comparisons to what is already known.  So, interesting points thusfar:
- The Android Translator is God's Gift
- I understand the streets are too dirty to wear my Cubanos (white shoes)
- I have identified the off the beaten track cities I will hit.  Kharkov, Luganst, Zap, Dniper.  I have identified some of the social structures I will tap.  But, I have only begun to make begin to make contacts
- unlike in Colombia, I will use agencies to meet women.


Actually, I am more excited about this trip than I have been about anything in years.  It must be the newness?   In Colombia, I was concerned of getting kidnapped and violent crime.  In Ukraine, I am concerned about getting my a$$ kicked and being drunk under the table .... so, I have gotten back into shape somewhat, and been drinking a healthy amount of Vodka almost every night.  (I take this stuff seriously LOL )


My $hitty Spanish will do me NO GOOD there.  But, the learning investment I made in Spanish is making picking up the basics in Russian much easier than otherwise possible.   Still, I will rely on my humility, good nature, and dance more than language:)

in 10 year of coming here (Ukraine, writing this from Kharkov), having spent months at a time, several 3 months, one or two 6 months and now finishing up a year, and having married a Ukrainian half my age, i can say i have not seen one act of violence in all this time..drunks, yes. common..fights? never seen one. Americans behave much more aggressively than Ukrainians

[rmm1110]

I read all of your posts on this thread and its interesting to see how your conclusion's are way off base about the Ukraine.

You talk about the Ukraine as a possible change, something different than latin america... well your right it is so different it is like being on another planet. The culture there is so vastly different than latin america it is almost like opposite poles.

It is very difficult to find a good woman there that is not messed up emotionally. They are amazing women for the first little while but the vast majority of them go seriously sideways in the end. Latinas are passionate... Ukrainian women are emotional... There is a a huge difference. They are raised with a very loose set of morals when it comes to honesty. It is a country wide thing not a local thing. The average Ukranian woman will think nothing of scamming you. The vast majority of them are raised to take what they want... and if you have to lie or con in order to do it then that is considered ok. They are very subtle about it to. They will milk you over an extended period of time and think nothing of it.

They can be exeptionally good liers due to their common history of having to hide things while they were a communist country. It is a cultural norm there. The economic downturn has seriously increased the level of hardship in the Ukraine the last few years. In turn this has also increased the level of desperation/dispare/need on the part of the Ukrainian woman. This translates into they have to do whatever it takes to survive. You do the math...

So buyer beware. There are a lot of really good women there that can be found if your willing to be carefull, take your time and not ever ignore red flags. If your only into the really really hot looking women... your in for quite the ride. Looks like that in the Ukraine translate into a living... It is almost considered a commodity there. Trust me they know how to trade on it. Combine those kinds of looks with their inate sense for telling exceptional lies and being able to hide things.you have the basic formula for a giant disaster.

You cannot show up there as a timid manfrom North America. They will eat you alive. In their culture a man takes what he wants. He dosn't ask he tells you. So if you show up insecure and needy like most North American men. Your basically screwed from the get go. I know this all sounds a bit harsh but I have seen many men fall to these women. I have dated these women. I have friends who married women from the Ukraine. My dad was born in the Ukraine and I have family in the Ukraine so believe me when I say that you need to be careful. It is not uncommon for the whole family to sit around and discuss how their daughter is going to milk you for more money or things. I have seen mothers encouraging their daughters to do it. they love that your weak... it makes their job so much easier.

Zon,

your gunna fit right in there. With your loose morals(non traditional values) when it comes to women, you will have an endless supply of takers. I agree with Innocentvixen if you hang with a woman who sheds her clothes for a living in whatever degree... she is not long term matterial and in almost 100% of the cases will be emotionally messed up and incapable of commiting long term. There are so many women that will give you what you want there for some meals, hotel stays and maybe some gifts here and there.

Jeff, you comment on their lack of smiling of eastern europeans... your 100% right however what you might not know is that is what it is like in public... in private it is a whole other story. Once you get behind the curtain I doubt you could find a more passionate women on the planet. They know how to cut loose... and then some...

CK

most of what you say is true here. (10 years coming, going and living in Ukraine and having been married to a Ukrainian half my age) my only beef is why do you call it THE Ukraine?  it is Ukraine...no more THE Ukraine than it is THE Russia...

[rmm1110]

Davidgm50,

The agencies are not the same as Colombia. They offer a similar service but they are very different in how they conduct business. First I must lay down a big disclaimer here. I group agencies into 2 categories. One being pretty much above board and the other not so much... They play in the grey area or could be full blown on the dark side.

Of course you can just show up to the agency and look through their database and select the women you want to contact. You are going to have way more success there doing it in person than writing first. I seriously do not recommend writing the woman first.

There are a few down sides though... The main one being that she is either to busy to see you or is out of town. So just be prepared that about 10-15 % of the women you try to see will not be ble to due to logistical problems.

As far as cutting a deal there... It's the Ukraine... Everything is negotiable. But do not expect to big a discount. If you think your a good negotiator... Then I guarantee you will meet your match there. They take negotiation to a whole new level. They will not cave easily so be prepared for it.

Now as for the models you see on the site... Well model is code speak for hooker, call girl, gaisha girl, professional companion, stripper, porn star etc... You get the picture. It is very rare to find an actual model there that does not sell herself in some form and of course in varying degrees.

If she can speak japanese then you can bet your left you know what she was in Japan working one of the gentleman clubs. If she speaks Arabic or any of the darivatives she was most likely paid companion in Dubai or something like that.

If she was or is an exotic dancer then it is pretty much assumed at some point some guy offered her enough to take it to the next level.

You get the picture here.

You will find some of the most stunning blondes on the planet there. There is a huge amount of very attractive women there. They dress impeccable there. They are very fashion aware. They might not have a lot of clothes to choose from at home but they always look good when they go out.

If you watch a busy street you will be amazed at how many absolutely beautiful women that are there. And yes there are a lot of tall slender women there.

If you are going to go down the Ukraine marriage agency road then I cannot stress enough to be confident and have a take charge attitude. I don't mean abusive I mean ready a able to make decisions and know what your doing. Or at least look like you know what your doing.

If your a weak and timid... It's the same as being a wounded animal in the wild. They will sense it and they will take advantage of it without even giving it a second thought. It is their culture to do so. Second nature. They might still choose to be with you but if you are like that then you open yourself up to the bad women that are there... They will milk you like a cow... Daily... Twice a day!

Oh and one other thing. If a woman there is constantly worried about you spending your money... Or paying to much... Or being taken advantage of by a vendor... That is a very good sign. Those are the serious ones... She will do that if she is into you. If she is not looking out for you in that way... I don't care how nice she is in other areas she is gunna take you for a ride eventually.

Women there are always on the lookout to protect their family. You would be amazed at what lengths they will go to in order to save the family money. If she is watching out for you like this... That is a sign she is thinking of you as part of that... It's a very good sign... Now that woman is a keeper.

Now all of this only applies to a guy actually there to find a partner... Not just sample the talent. For those guys none of what I said above will matter... Cause you will just go for the models... It's not even hard work...

So don't come crying back here if you go after a model and she takes you for quite the ride... You were warned!

Ck

absolutely spot on

[rmm1110]

Well, that hurt!

Rooting for her?  It was me that needed all the rooting. 

Things went well our last week together.  I was like ALL the things I would advise others NOT to be - in want/need of her.    But, I put her phone number in my SKYPE incorrectly, so for the first 5 days apart there was no communication between us - even though I called a million times a day.   Then, there was a person on a different board that took it upon himself to find out who "I" was - small town, good description - and contact her warning her that I was posting on the internet about her and her family - oh! and the fact that I have dubious business interests too. Amazingly, he included a photo that I did not post publicly on the internet, but I did email to maybe 30 friends while I was gone for 2 months.   It just goes to show!

Since that time, our communication has slowed to a trickle.  It is not entirely over, but it would take a herculean effort.  And, did I mention she lives on the other side of the planet?  She is powerful medicine to me, and I am not quite sure how to take her.   Damn she is guarded!  But, my attraction to her is more than for a woman who is strongly passionate and inviting. 

We will see

something similar happened to me..i posted photos of the hot women in Ukraine and some jerk took it upon himself to go hit on my wife when i was out of town and used my FB photos and posts as some sort of "evidence".

too bad you do not know ho this is..if he is ever in Ukraine, you should have him dealt with..this is against all "man rules" and he deserves a good ass kicking.  I have nothing but contempt for a "man" who would do this..i hope karma is real and he gets run over by a train

[rmm1110]

Zon, this was a very interesting read and knowing Ukraine and the women fairly well, it was also interesting to watch your learning curve.

since i am new to the board, i cannot PM you, but I hope you will PM me with your email address.  i want to ask you some questions about columbia as i am about to make my first trip..

thanks for your effort here

[Zon]

rmm110; my pleasure.   I think these forums are best used for people to report, and other to read - taking what they want to apply, and leaving the rest.   So, you have much experience in Ukraine (note not "The Ukraine" LOL)  Good for you!  I would like to talk to you too.

Personal reflections, continued on Ukraine.

I really liked that woman!  MUCHOS.  I doubt I should allow myself to feel that way again.   Falling in love with a sober mind is all a mature man ought to aim for.  In Ukraine, I found myself in an inner conflict, because a part of me was turning into a 16 year old boy.   But, in the end, despite the unpredictable BS, and my measured efforts ... I just did not see enough effort from her side.  ( HA! that's an understatement ).   Emotionally, I really really really prefer women from Eastern Europe / Russia.  BUT ...

I think that is for a different person, or a different time.  I have already invested much time and energy in Latin America.  I enjoy life there very much.   I enjoy the people, the pace of life, the standard of living.  I enjoy how the good woman can be very very loving and warm.  I am learning to more fully appreciate the qualities of "simple values." (it did not come easily, or fast)   Financially, it makes more sense.   Logistically it makes more sense - same time zone.   The Spanish language is getting easier (although, I did not find Russian impossible to learn?)

At some point a person must stop sojourning, and start living.  For me, I have reached that point.  (FT will be quick to note many years too late LOL )

[rmm1110]

thank you for contacting me...silly of this forum to not allow me to respond with a PM

i value your experience in both countries as i am about to do the opposite..i have been to Poltava a few times, met a nice very sexy woman there but it was brief...i bet we also went to the same agency..i did that in the past. i rely upon mamba/flirt nowadays but i leave Ukraine in a week and if i like Colombia, i will not return..too hard here in every way.

funny you suggested that book, i am waiting for my paypal funds to show up and i am buying all of them, just so i can compare my experiences with his...you sound like a younger version of myself

[rmm1110]

zon,

i am curious...did you ever figure out who the panzie was that cockblocked you?  i hope so because he deserves to be bitch slapped. any man running a tackle on someone's game is as beta as they get..i bet he beats his women, if he ever lucks into one.