To leave her or stay? your opinions or advice

[Heruamen]

  Me I'm not one to whine about a situation I create myself, so this is why I never really bought this to the forum,  but I would not mind some helpful advice.  My situation is this I met my girl and thought i fell so in love with her in cam.  I was so enthusiastic that I really rushed things like some idiot kid.  We made all these plans, I promised her the sun the moon the stars etc.  I just knew she was the one. The whole point of me spending 3 months in the pi was to get to know the person I want to spend my life with but somehow that concept got lost in the shuffle.  Anyway I go there and meet her and she is a real sweet girl, but after 1 month and the initial excitement died down I began to notice a lack of compatability, a lack of chemistry.  Its seemed to me that everything I did was a forced effort on my part cause i'm thinking wow i spent all this money and made all these plans but in my gut i was begining to feel like this girl is not the right one for me.
     Then it became crystal clear that no I don't want to spend the rest of my life with this woman.  Don't get me wrong she is a sweet woman, great personality and all that, but there was something seriously missing.  Even got to the point that i did not enjoy being around her that much, and I found myself always finding little excuses to slip away.  Then I was wishing I had listened to all the guys that said have several women you talk to and can visit while you are there.  I left every number and ym address I had back in the states because Im seriously dealing with this one woman. 
       No big deal I think okay , when I leave I will just tell her how I feel and break it off even though I did not tell her my true feelings because i discovered I could not communicate to her on any serious issue of our relationship without her just totally losing it and shutting down by crying.  Then Bam she ends up pregnant.  Stupid stupid stupid me.  I was so depressed about that because now I felt trapped.  That was the dumbest thing I have ever done. I should have took my time.  Anyway i decided to suck it up , man up whatever and remain with her for the sake of the baby but I do not love her.  I feel so bad for her if i left her.  I realize all of this in October of 2009 while i was still there with her.  It is now May 2010 and I simply tried to make the best of it and I told myself i can grow to love her she is a nice person, but I have been living a lie.  A lie to her , to my family and i was still willing to marry her for the baby.  Now all that is changed and I dont know if I could go thru with it.  I am torn between leaving her and seeking true happiness and fulfillment and staying with her for the baby.  Sorry for the long winded post but I had to try to explain.   Any advice would be helpful especially from the veterans and wise men.  Thanks
  The worst part about it is that I have never told her how I feel.  The minute she got pregnant i felt like I needed to keep it to myself for the sake of the baby.   Her extreme emotional reaction anytime I tried to bring up our relationship compatibility issues has led me to believe that for the health of this baby I just can't let her know the truth about how I feel. You are not supposed to stress a pregnant woman and i think this would just make her lose it.  Thanks for listening.

[evoltnvii]

  wow man thats hard....I cant even begin to touch this one all i can say is i respect you are man enough to want to take care of your kid more than a few would run off leaving her and the kid to fend for themselves.

[piglett]

Your a good man for sticking by her even though you don't feel she is "the one".
you say your not happy with her ?? well have you really ever been happy with a woman in your life? how about if you in time leave her & then you never do find "the one?"
then what ? what is it exactly about her that you don't like ?
Also (this may sound a bit harsh)if she was good enough of a woman to bed down with then she must be good enough to spend the next 18 years of your life with.
Have you tried making a list of the things that she does that you don't like & then just leaving the list in a place where she can find it? maybe she will want to change for you? I would say that if you are wanting to leave you should give something a try, anything a try. In the end when you have tried everything you can think of & still  things are not good between the 2 of you, you can always leave then .....rite? 


good luck man
piglett 

[michaelb]

Well, you were stupid (you're the one who said it, I'm just agreeing) and now you're trapped. You're either going to be miserable because you're going to be in a 'forced' marriage to somebody you say you don't love, or you're going to run out on her and your conscience will eat at you forever.....that is, if you have one, but I'm pretty sure you do. I don't know if I'm a wise man or not, but I guess that I qualify as a veteran.  How does SHE feel about this? You say you haven't told her your true feelings? So is she still standing there with stars in her eyes waiting for the wedding ceremony to start, thinking she's going to have a good husband and father for her baby, or has she figured out the score on her own by now? I imagine that 6 months into the pregnancy and she still doesn't have a wedding that she's having doubts that she ever will.....hasn't she at least said something along the line of "What's the hold up here?" or "If we are going to get married, at least get it done before the birth"? Probably they do, but does her family know the situation? What do they think? You know in some parts of Mexico and most of Arkansas, a fellow in your situation who doesn't 'do right' could wake up dead one morning.....I'm not that up on PI cultural norms, but I'd bet they're similar and I sure wouldn't advise you to go back without stopping off at the marriage license office before you run into any of her relatives. Of course you could just change your phone number, open a new email account and never go back there, no relative troubles that way and anyway, and they'd have hell trying to garnish a US based paycheck to enforce a Philippine family court child order, now wouldn't they? 

No, you're not a scared little boy who runs away from his messes,  you're a man who takes care of things, I can tell....if you weren't, it wouldn't be eating on you. So,  when's the wedding?

[z_k_g]

Heruamen,

I joined P-L after reading your posts!!  I had been looking at the archives and reading the forum on a regular basis, but decided to join and become a regular after reading about your experience and trip to CDO.

I also met a young filipna, she is 20.  Like you, I think that she is the only person for me and most of the other pinays I have met do not come close to her.  However, I plan on meeting her first and spending time with her, just as you did, and then coming back and talk/chat/cam some more, and then go visit her maybe one more time.   We plan to court for 2 years before marriage.

We will hopefully get a bit intimate to see if the chemistry is there, but we will not have sex (that's the plan anyways).

We discussed refraining from sex for a few reasons.  Most importantly she is a virgin and only wants sex with her husband, I completely understand this because she is from a tiny village and once they see she is dating a Kano, she will be watched very closely.  Her reputation is important to her and she does not want to be known as a flirt girl, as she puts it.  Finally, we can get to know each other with out the confusion of lust clouding our judgment.  Also there will be no possibility of her getting pregnant.  Which leads me to the response to your post.

I do not think you need to stay with the young lady, but you need to take care of the child.

I made the decision to stay with my ex, for the kids, and spent 10 years totally miserable.  Of course she was an AmW but I think this rule applies with any relationship with any woman even your lady in PI.

Do not stay for the kids!

Good for the woman!

Good for the kid!

Bad for Heruamen!

[william3rd]

Another horror story and cautionary tale to all Filipinas everywhere.  You took everything that she had and burdened her with a child and now want to ride off into the sunset. Nice one. And you want to what? go look in the Philippines some more? Dude-Stay in america.

[Jeff S]

I'm going to disagree with some of the advice above. Love isn't something you find or fall into, it's something you DO - you do it over and over again - you do it when you don't feel like doing it. After you do it long enough, you feel it.

If you're going to man-up, then man-up and handle your business, and never, ever mention your "feelings" to her or sit around and pine about them to yourself - that's what whiny women do, and why most of us go somewhere else where women don't whine - do what it takes to make her and the baby happy, and guess what, you'll end up happy too.

You asked for opinions - that's mine.

[Dave H]

Hey Heruamen,

I am very sorry to hear that!

When I was 15, my Dad told me what would happen if I ever got a girl pregnant! I knew he was very serious! He had 3 younger sisters, two of whom became pregnant by their boyfriends...before they got married. One of the "fathers" was his best friend, but he didn't cut him any slack! I knew my father would be the one holding the shotgun! Since I never had any doubt as to what would happen if I screwed up, I was always very careful and took precautions! It doesn't matter how old I am or that he is now dead, his message has been drilled into my brain!

I agree with Jeff! There is a big difference from infatuation and love! It is easy to become infatuated all day long around here! Some guys in the Philippines trade in their lady for a younger model every few years...just because they can! I know what I have and am just not interested!

Good Luck!

Dave

Hey Heruamen,

I would do whatever it takes to avoid getting her pregnant before marriage! It might not effect the visa process negatively, but why risk damaging her reputation with her family, coworkers, and friends? Once you are married, the Philippine attitude is "the sooner she is pregnant, the better!"

Dave

[fathertime]

Hello Heruaman,

My opinion is similar to Jeff, MichaelB, and the some of others.  Obviously you have created this situation and it would seem to be 12 times easier to walk away from it, but that is not the right thing to do, as you are a full grown man.  I would try slapping myself in the face (hard) and MAKING myself give this ‘nice person’ your very best effort.  She is into you, and for whatever reason you want to move on, I get that.  At some point a man must put his desires second or third in line, as they are not THAT important. If you move on before giving your very best effort to make this work, then all 3 of you will suffer the consequences.  The child will bring much joy to you and you might find that mama’s care for you turns you into her big fan.  You can level with her and say something like ‘this is going to be difficult because of xxxx, xxxx, and xxxx, but I think we can work together to make this work’….
Thanks for bringing this situation up for opinions, hope you find the right choice.

Fathertime!

[jm21-2]

It's a little unclear what exactly is so bad about her from your post. Could you go into a little more detail?

I think in probably every relationship there are times when you force yourself to do something you don't really want to do (buy her flowers, talk to her for a couple hours when you just got off a long day of work and just want to watch something on tv, etc.). Like Jeff said, love is something you have to work at.

Also probably in every relationship you need some alone time. If you ahve been living with her 24/7 while not working it's hard to imagine you not wanting to slip away at times and being a bit burnt out on the relationship. Especially considering it's in such an early stage.

But if you really don't like her, don't marry her...but at least make sure to support the child.

[Heruamen]

    Whatever happens I will support my child and I am not walking around depressed and all of that.  I am not interested in whining to people , only looking for some advice from voices of experience.  To the person who said I would leave her and ride off into the sunset, maybe you didn't read the part that said I was torn and hadn't made any decision. But thats okay I really don't care if someone rips into me, I'm just looking for different suggestions and opinions.  My best friend has been in a miserable marriage for 20 years and has suffered immensely because he was in my shoes. He saw that this woman was not right for him after being with her for a while and then right when he was going to break up with her she gets pregnant, so he marries her and has been miserable for every one of those 20 years.
    I tried to discuss my feelings about our relationship with her before she was pregnant but she completely shut down on me. ( which is another problem)  I can't seem to communicate important things like that to her.
    The fact is I don't love her but she is pregnant and was going to move on before i even got a hint of her being pregnant , now she is so I either stay with her and try to make love grow all the time looking at other women cause I'm not happy in this , or I break up with her and take care of the baby everyway I can.  Whatever I decide It will not be till I see her at the birth of the baby this summer that I will make any final decisions Perhaps  when I see the baby and be overwhelmed with joy I will want to marry her   anyway and find my happiness in fatherhood.  Whatever I do I will never just leave her hanging and I plan to be a part of this childs life whether I marry her or not.  That why I am planning on buying a house in the city she lives in.  Like I said I'm not a whiner I was never even going to mention this on the post. Since October of last year I had already resigned myself to marry her, its just lately I am not sure if its the right thing to do marrying someone you don't love and really don't want to be around that much for the sake of the child.  Would I not be doing her a diservice by living a lie.  I tried to make myself love her all these months but its not working.

[Heruamen]

oh and by the way william the 3rd I am not interested in your negative comments you know nothing about me. I didn't open myself up to hear any crap from a person like you. So don't bother responding if you don't have anything constructive to say. I have been going over this in my mind alone for months  If I  was the kind of person to just up and leave and go find someone else i would not even bother bringing this up or giving it a second thought.  My conscious is very burdened by this and the last thing i want to do is hurt her.    I just came here looking for helpful advice if you don't have any and you just want to talk crap f..k off

[piglett]

what exactly does she do that is sooooo bad?
does she burn every meal she cooks for you?
does she nag you day & night?
does she fart in church?
if you tell us what the exact problem is maybe someone here can offer up some advice.


piglett

[z_k_g]

But if you really don't like her, don't marry her...but at least make sure to support the child.

Enough Said!

[z_k_g]

It's a little unclear what exactly is so bad about her from your post. Could you go into a little more detail?

   
Major Red Flag--->>

    I tried to discuss my feelings about our relationship with her before she was pregnant but she completely shut down on me. ( which is another problem)  I can't seem to communicate important things like that to her.

Piglett, he can't even talk to the woman!!

This is why I think, SOP for this type of relationship cross cultural long distance relationship should be TalkChatCam/VisitSpendSomeTime/ReturnHome/Revalauate/VisitAgaintoConfirm/ProceedForward or something to that effect.

Heruamen is now the poster child for what NOT to do!   This young woman refuses to discuss any serious issues, a major problem in a relationship!!  During the TalkChatCam phase he should have been probing for this flaw!

Other posters have suggested that he try to work it out with her.  How can he do that when there is a total lack of communication?

Any suggestions?

[z_k_g]

Another horror story and cautionary tale to all Filipinas everywhere.  You took everything that she had and burdened her with a child and now want to ride off into the sunset. Nice one. And you want to what? go look in the Philippines some more? Dude-Stay in america.

I think you are of base here, Heruamen screwed up and didn't prevent a pregnancy, but he is not a sex tourist or a scammer taking advantage of young pinays as you imply here! 

I can't excuse his stupidity or lack of judgment; but his intentions, as he tells the story, were honorable, his goal was to find a pinay wife and have a family.

I would have a big issue if he "rode off in the sunset" and did not take care of his child; then I would agree with your post.  But, if he takes responsibility for his child, but decides not to marry this young woman, it's his decision to make and not an indictment on his character.

[bcc_1_2]

This a horrible situation for the OP and a great [snip]ing thread for newbies. You all are adults so you make your own decisions, but then you live with them too. Heruamen is in a classic catch 22 situation that is compounded by the pacific ocean. You don't want to marry the girl, but in not doing so you'd never see your own kid.

I'm just generalizing in these next few statements and not talking about the OP. But for those that list money or other issues as reasons for skipping steps... if you propose on the internet, have unprotected sex with someone you in reality hardly know, propose after a week in her country, etc, etc you are potentially screwing yourself.

Just for all those reading this going how the hell can I avoid this. Personally I would meet multiple women on a trip. Time and finances are a scare resource and you don't want to settle on just an average woman (that's what America is for). Second don't boink them. If you are in it just for casual sex wrap up and beware of the risks.

The whole point is to avoid these situations beause Heruamen is in a terrible situation with no real good out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmFZlsV8Iw

Should I stay or should I go? If I go there will be trouble... and if I stay there will be double.

As long as you make sure the kid eats, goes to school, and sees a doctor I've got nothing else of importance to add or say.

[bcc_1_2]

   
Major Red Flag--->>

Glad you read the major issue he has with his fiance. It seems she is to childish to have an adult conversation with him about their relationship. As someone dating a 20 year old girl from the same country (not sure if you are dating her... have you met her?) I hope you are taking good notes.

[z_k_g]

I'm going to disagree with some of the advice above. Love isn't something you find or fall into, it's something you DO - you do it over and over again - you do it when you don't feel like doing it. After you do it long enough, you feel it.

If you're going to man-up, then man-up and handle your business, and never, ever mention your "feelings" to her or sit around and pine about them to yourself - that's what whiny women do, and why most of us go somewhere else where women don't whine - do what it takes to make her and the baby happy, and guess what, you'll end up happy too.

You asked for opinions - that's mine.

Jeff,

He can't even have a discussion with his girl, she refuses to talk about it!

    I tried to discuss my feelings about our relationship with her before she was pregnant but she completely shut down on me. ( which is another problem)  I can't seem to communicate important things like that to her.

And I just want to add, I think the young pinay was a fantastic woman from what Heruamen tells us, just not the woman for him!!

But based on what I am hearing, I really don't think he can work this one out, she won't talk!  He ignored the red flags or didn't even put her to the test when he was chatting/camming/phoning, went to PI and knocked up a woman that he should have weeded out months earlier for this major character flaw.
 

[Ray]

Hi Heruamen,

I really feel for you man!

Yes, you created the situation that you are in and I’m glad to hear that you are willing to deal with it, one way or another, rather than simply taking the easy way out by running away. Good for you!

I guess your choices are:

1. Marry her and try to make it work. This option may not be as bad as it seems. The key to making it work isn’t necessarily any “chemistry” or deep undying love, but a full commitment by both parties to do whatever it takes to make it work. You may very well find yourself in love with her after a longer time together. It sounds like you are ready to try that, but perhaps she isn’t, maybe because of maturity issues. If you are willing to make compromises to make a marriage work, but she is not, then marriage is probably not the right option for you in the long run.

2. Don’t marry her but do whatever it takes to support your child. If you decide to do it this way, then may I suggest that you do more than simply send some money every month. Commit to being a father if only by long distance. Take your child to the US Embassy in Manila and file the papers for the child’s US citizenship. Without a marriage certificate it will be somewhat complicated, but if you appear in person and provide all the right documents, your child can get the US citizenship papers that he is entitled to. This will provide very significant opportunities for the child down the road that will not be available if you don’t file. I would try to this before the child turns 2 if possible. You will need evidence that you were there around 9 months before the birth and preferably evidence that you were living together, which should be pretty easy in your case. In some cases, they may ask for a DNA test to prove parentage, which can be done in Manila for a reasonable fee.

3. Another consideration is to bring the child to the States where you can raise him/her yourself. You don’t have to do this right away, but you have a few years to think about it. If you remain on friendly terms with mom, she may very well go along with this option for the sake of the child’s future. We had a previous member here named Greg who did just this. He couldn’t or wouldn’t marry the mother, but stepped up to the plate and brought his baby here to raise as his own.

A few comments for consideration:

Some Filipina women often have a hard time discussing deep feelings openly. There is sometimes a need to go into a crying/sulking mode (read tampo) instead of  discussing things openly as we are used to doing. You may need to adjust your approach to discussion of true feelings and dealing with disagreements if you are going to make a try for a marriage.

If you will decide to break it off, I would make every attempt to do so in person. Don’t just send her an e-mail and say “sorry, but sayonara”. I think you owe her that much to do it in person. If you choose this option, you could meet her in private with no family around, maybe in Manila or somewhere on neutral ground.

Whatever you do, don’t rush your decision. You still have time to think about this, so take your time.

Good luck whichever you choose…

Ray

[z_k_g]

Hi Heruamen,

I really feel for you man!

Yes, you created the situation that you are in and I’m glad to hear that you are willing to deal with it, one way or another, rather than simply taking the easy way out by running away. Good for you!

I guess your choices are:

1. Marry her and try to make it work. This option may not be as bad as it seems. The key to making it work isn’t necessarily any “chemistry” or deep undying love, but a full commitment by both parties to do whatever it takes to make it work. You may very well find yourself in love with her after a longer time together. It sounds like you are ready to try that, but perhaps she isn’t, maybe because of maturity issues. If you are willing to make compromises to make a marriage work, but she is not, then marriage is probably not the right option for you in the long run.

2. Don’t marry her but do whatever it takes to support your child. If you decide to do it this way, then may I suggest that you do more than simply send some money every month. Commit to being a father if only by long distance. Take your child to the US Embassy in Manila and file the papers for the child’s US citizenship. Without a marriage certificate it will be somewhat complicated, but if you appear in person and provide all the right documents, you child can get the US citizenship papers that he is entitled to. This will provide very significant opportunities for the child down the road that will not be available if you don’t file. I would try to this before the child turns 2 if possible. You will need evidence that you were there around 9 months before the birth and preferably evidence that you were living together, which should be pretty easy in your case. In some cases, they may ask for a DNA test to prove parentage, which can be done in Manila for a reasonable fee.

3. Another consideration is to bring the child to the States where you can raise him/her yourself. You don’t have to do this right away, but you have a few years to think about it. If you remain on friendly terms with mom, she may very well go along with this option for the sake of the child’s future. We had a previous member here named Greg who did just this. He couldn’t or wouldn’t marry the mother, but stepped up to the plate and brought his baby here to raise as his own.

A few comments for consideration:

Some Filipina women often have a hard time discussing deep feelings openly. There is sometimes a need to go into a crying/sulking mode (read tampo) instead of  discussing things openly as we are used to doing. You may need to adjust your approach to discussion of true feelings and dealing with disagreements if you are going to make a try for a marriage.

If you will decide to break it off, I would make every attempt to do so in person. Don’t just send her an e-mail and say “sorry, but sayonara”. I think you owe her that much to do it in person. If you choose this option, you could meet her in private with no family around, maybe in Manila or somewhere on neutral ground.

Whatever you do, don’t rush your decision. You still have time to think about this, so take your time.

Good luck whichever you choose…

Ray

Good Solid Advice!

[Bob_S]

Please tell me this is all BS fiction, written as a cautionary tale for piglett's benefit.   

He can't even have a discussion with his girl, she refuses to talk about it!

I still don't see the problem with her.  So she's not inclined to endless meaningless chat about "us" and the "relationship"?  What the hell's wrong with that?  She's Asian.  They generally just don't do that.  If you need that kind of constant verbal exchange and feedback, you're looking in the wrong continental plate.

You got a woman who loves you in spite of what you deserve.  She cooks for you, cleans your underwear, gives you her body (that she hasn't shared with hundreds of other guys), isn't meaninglessly chatty, won't give you loads of crap about going out from time to time to have a pint and shoot pool or hoops with your buds.  If you can't appreciate that, you won't be happy with ANY other woman.

I either stay with her and try to make love grow all the time looking at other women cause I'm not happy in this

Let me tell you, even if you were happy with this gal, you'd look anyway.  We're guys, it's what we do.  Being married doesn't mean you're blind, it just means you're more cautious about looking. 

[jm21-2]

You got a woman who loves you in spite of what you deserve.  She cooks for you, cleans your underwear, gives you her body (that she hasn't shared with hundreds of other guys), isn't meaninglessly chatty, won't give you loads of crap about going out from time to time to have a pint and shoot pool or hoops with your buds.  If you can't appreciate that, you won't be happy with ANY other woman.

Lol....

[Jeff S]

So she's not inclined to endless meaningless chat about "us" and the "relationship"?  What the hell's wrong with that?  She's Asian.  They generally just don't do that.  If you need that kind of constant verbal exchange and feedback, you're looking in the wrong continental plate.

You got a woman who loves you in spite of what you deserve.  She cooks for you, cleans your underwear, gives you her body (that she hasn't shared with hundreds of other guys), isn't meaninglessly chatty, won't give you loads of crap about going out from time to time to have a pint and shoot pool or hoops with your buds.  If you can't appreciate that, you won't be happy with ANY other woman.

Let me tell you, even if you were happy with this gal, you'd look anyway.  We're guys, it's what we do.  Being married doesn't mean you're blind, it just means you're more cautious about looking. 

Exactly! Asian women are about what you DO not what you FEEL. That's what makes them SO different from Western women. Who want's all of that "girlfriend" talk anyway.

My wife when we're out will occasionally say "mitte - oki opai" (Look! Big hooters!) if I hadn't noticed a particularly curvaceous woman. 

[z_k_g]

Please tell me this is all BS fiction, written as a cautionary tale for piglett's benefit.   

I think its true.....but hopefully piglett is reading and watching this train wreck!!!!!   

You got a woman who loves you in spite of what you deserve.  She cooks for you, cleans your underwear, gives you her body (that she hasn't shared with hundreds of other guys), isn't meaninglessly chatty, won't give you loads of crap about going out from time to time to have a pint and shoot pool or hoops with your buds.  If you can't appreciate that, you won't be happy with ANY other woman.
Let me tell you, even if you were happy with this gal, you'd look anyway.  We're guys, it's what we do.  Being married doesn't mean you're blind, it just means you're more cautious about looking. 

We don't know the other details...but one man's Medusa is another man's princess!  What makes you happy may not make Heruamen happy!!   I think he has already made his mind up about "not loving" her.

To address your point, besides her being clearly inept in the communication department, we just don't have any other facts about why he has lost love he developed on cam!  Maybe it was as simple as chemistry?

I guess without some real detail info, no one can help him!!