Experience with 2nd language acquisition for children/adults

[fathertime]

     I was reading some interesting research regarding learning a second language.   One of the interesting quotes referencing the 2nd language learners age :   â€œOlder is faster, but younger is better”.   This was simplifying and generalizing the process quite a bit but it did get me thinking.  Some other interesting factoids among many were:
1. If a person learns the 2nd language while a teenager or before, they are likely to have much less of an accent.
2. Age 9-25 are very efficient learners
3. Infants/small children exposed to both languages during this time are able to learn both and begin to distinguish one language from another around age 3. 

Those of you that have been married and/or have raised children with a foreign speaking spouse, what has been your experience with:  1)Prior children adapting to and learning the spouses language 2)  Children you have had with the spouse and that have been born while exposed to both languages, have they been learning both and how adept have the children become in both languages?   

Fathertime!

[utopiacowboy]

My wife's daughter came here when she was 9 and learned English very quickly. She was in a class with no other Spanish-speakers and the teacher did not speak Spanish. Sink or swim. Six years later she is at the top of her class and speaks English like a native. No trace of an accent whatsoever.

Her brothers came when they were 13 and 14. They were in ESL for a year and they also learned English very quickly. Although their English is very good, they speak English with slight accents. The oldest is now studying engineering at Texas A&M.

Their mother's English is minimal to say the least. We always speak Spanish to each other although the kids speak English to each other and with me. We all wish that she would make a concerted effort to learn English.

[Kiltboy1]

My 6 year old started kindergarden last December and now is in 1st grade and speaks English very well and is amongst the top of his class. His mother , well, her English is improving because I refuse to speak Spanish with her at all, Either she understands me or she just has to rough it. Sink or Swim is the only way in my house. I speak fluent Spanish, she does not speak good English, so which is better to speak since she lives in America?

KB

[fathertime]

Thanks guys.  It seems that generally the Spanish-speaking children are learning english pretty rapidly.

  What I am also really curious about is how preexisting children were picking up Spanish.  My woman has had no prior children so it is mine that are rapidly processing the 2nd language of Spanish.  I woundn't know how many posters have been down this road because it is a topic I don't remember seeing discussed. I know both of you had children before the spouse arrived, did they learn Spanish?  If so, was it through classes or exposure?  Mine are picking up Spanish very rapidly and it is amazing to see.

Fathertime!

[utopiacowboy]

My 6 year old started kindergarden last December and now is in 1st grade and speaks English very well and is amongst the top of his class. His mother , well, her English is improving because I refuse to speak Spanish with her at all, Either she understands me or she just has to rough it. Sink or Swim is the only way in my house. I speak fluent Spanish, she does not speak good English, so which is better to speak since she lives in America?

KB

Good for you, KB! She may not appreciate it now but you are doing her a big favor.

[Chris F]

We all wish that she would make a concerted effort to learn English.

With all due respect UT, if you have always spoken to your wife in Spanish after all these years she has been here, then you are part of the problem in regards to why she is not learning English.

[zack]

Fathertime,

In regards to your second question, I can't answer it from personal experience but my wife recently met a lady from Colombia who has lived in the states for 10 years and married an American man about 5 years ago. They have a 4 year old son. The mother has spoken to their son in Spanish since birth and the Father in English. Their son is now somewhat fluent in both languages, to the point where he serves as the translator for mom and dad when they occasionally run into communication problems. He is a bright kid so I don't know if this is the norm for someone his age with a similar upbringing or not.

[utopiacowboy]

Thanks guys.  It seems that generally the Spanish-speaking children are learning english pretty rapidly.

  What I am also really curious about is how preexisting children were picking up Spanish.  My woman has had no prior children so it is mine that are rapidly processing the 2nd language of Spanish.  I woundn't know how many posters have been down this road because it is a topic I don't remember seeing discussed. I know both of you had children before the spouse arrived, did they learn Spanish?  If so, was it through classes or exposure?  Mine are picking up Spanish very rapidly and it is amazing to see.

Fathertime!

One of my kids used to stay at my house a lot and his Spanish is amazing. It rivals mine and his sister's who spent two years in Costa Rica and a year in Spain. When he was in high school he said his Spanish class was not challenging enough so they put him in a class with native speakers where he more than held his own. My other son did not spend the same amount of time in the house but his Spanish is also very good although nothing like his brother's who speaks like a native.

[robert angel]

I've worked at about 60 different schools from preschool through 12th grade and met with a lot of parents of the students. I find that generally speaking, the younger they are, the better and that also means faster, they will learn a new language.That's verbal and written English. Once they hit age 10 to 12--it varies--they not only have a harder time learning, but a lot harder time losing their accent.

The key is that they're usually totally immersed in English once in school, whereas their parents are not. Also, the brain is still growing in the language locus areas in younger people. Most school systems with ESOL (English second language) programs do not even require the ESOL certified teacher to be able to speak any language other than English.

Those are some of my favorite classes to visit, with often 6, 7 or more students from all parts of the world, a Teacher and a Paraprofessional all having a GREAT time, while working on the same curriculum as the 'regular' students in non ESOL classes. Usually after a year or two at the most, those kids are in full, non ESOL classes.

Some families refuse to put their kids in the ESOL classes and things still usually work out fine.

If you or I were in a foreign country and couldn't speak a word of their language, I am sure we'd learn that language a whole lot faster than from using any book, real life tutor or on line program. Being totally immersed and having to communicate to survive makes it happen.

I am helping out in a situation where a kindergarten Vietnamese child with autism showed up at a school and had never been exposed to any English spoken by her family. This kid made Boo Radley look like Cary Grant, albeit a much younger, female version. This child was very removed from any stimulation outside the house and what she did see and experience was all in Vietnamese, except for television.

She reportedly had never even been seen by an American Doctor before. Pretty much all her English was from TV and was VERY limited. She loved the Barney the Dinosaur show theme song and some stuff--'speak' from the Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoon show. It's a very interesting situation.

I have been married to a Filipina for going on 20 years and can hardly speak any Visayan or Tagalog--mainly a few polite words and a few nasty ones for taxi cab drivers. My sons aren't much better there, but can speak passable Spanish, French and their native English. I can hardly speak enough Spanish to order at taco bell--the window in my brain for acquiring a foreign language seems to have closed a long time ago....

[robert angel]

Perhaps I should have added that I have been married twice--both times, including currently, to Filipinas. My first wife didn't want to teach our sons Tagalog and although they were exposed to a fair amount of it and have been to the Philippines and have been active in numerous local Asian festivals, they never felt any need or desire to to learn. Yet they have learned other languages and each play several musical instruments pretty well.

It's kind of funny to me, but having kids who are half Asian, when I see an Asian kid at one of my schools in a hallway, if it's not right before a bell, I'll sometimes ask them what country their family is from or what is the nationality of the particular student to whom I'm talking to. You sort of get a feel for the situation--some kids don't seem approachable and I leave them alone, others seem more willing to open up a bit.

More than with any other ethnic group, I see Asian kids--even young ones (really especially the young ones) who are still learning English, stick out their chest and holding their heads up high, assertively state, when asked about their nationality, all but shout I"m an AMERICAN! It cracks me up everytime.....

I don't laugh at them of course, but I usually try and still find out where their family came from and explain that they have a lot to be proud of from there as well. My son's have Irish and Italian blood in them beside Filipino, and love to talk about being 25% Irish!

Learning new languages and how to play musical instruments go together pretty well in terms of one either having the talent for acquiring such skills pretty easily, or it being a struggle. For me, even as a youngster, both were always difficult and now seem all but impossible.

But as I said before, if I was put in a country where almost no one spoke English, I'd almost certainly learn enough of their language to get by.

Certain cultures and their native languages, seem to present more of a challenge for the adults than the children in acquiring English proficiency. I have been in places/neighborhoods in the USA where Chinese, Spanish, Russian, Polish and different Arab languages were more the norm than were English, where it took a long time for them to find a waiter who spoke enough English to even take my order in a restaurant. Many of these people felt little desire or need to learn English--there were groceries and medical facilities where their language was the norm.

The Detroit area has more Arabs outside of the middle east, than any place on earth, for instance.

In places like these, adults don't feel the need to learn English and as a result, often don't. It's uncommon, but sometimes it hinders their children's ability to learn English. When the kids never really hear it spoken at home, sometimes the kids don't feel compelled to learn English whole heatedly.

Just like some American born kids will use new slang words that Teachers supposedly don't know--often nasty words--sometimes foreign kids will say nasty things in their language about Teachers, assuming the Teachers don't pick up on it. We try and have 'primers' for Teachers to pick up on some of this disrespectful language, but it's always evolving and it's hard to break up cliques that embrace such behavior.

We try and make classroom seating arrangements that spread everyone out, not putting any color, culture or language group together too much in a classroom, but as soon as they hit the hallway and certainly in the lunchroom, they tend to gravitate to their own. It's especially pronounced with the Mexican students.

I feel the worst for young teenagers who come here from India with little prior English acquisition. They have real challenges in English--Language Arts classes and while often their parent's English is awful, these same parents will all but skin their kids alive if the Teacher has to call the home (as is usually required) if their child is struggling and not getting passing grades. A lot of times the Teachers would rather risk getting written up than call the parents, because quite often these Indian kids are the hardest working and best behaved kids in the class.

Ever notice how many spelling bees are won by Indian kids who've only been in the USA a few years? My sons have come in second place to Indian kids several times in spelling bee finals!