What ever happened to Luther?

[Ray]

I am not sure about the details but there is a way that you can still live overseas and collect SSI benefits. I have an Aunt & Uncle who are retired and now live in Mexico anywhere from 6-8 months out of the year and they are still collecting their SSI benefits. I do remember them mentioning something about how they had to change the way they collected the benefits though - something about it needs to be delivered via a direct deposit to a US bank or something along those lines.

Yes, there is a way to live overeas and still collect SSI...It's called CHEATING!

The law is very clear...  http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-0215.htm

As far as I'm concerned, all of these dumb asses stealing from the taxpayers can kiss my American Ass!   

Ray

[Ray]

OK, what's this adjustment of status all about??
I for one don't really know what that is.
something to with your foreign bride being able to get her SSI card so that she can work in this country?
or is it something to do with her being able to stay here in the US.?


thanks for your help guys
piglett

Pig,

A fiancée visa allows your bride to stay in the US temporarily, for 90 days, so that you can marry here.

After you marry, she must adjust her status to legal permanent resident in order to stay legally. You should download Forms I-485 and I-765 from CIS and study the filing instructions carefully. It’s better to be prepared in advance.

As a K-1 fiancée, she will be eligible for a conditional Social Security Card upon arrival and can legally work for the first 90 days of her stay. After that, she should obtain an EAD employment authorization card, which is part of the adjustment of status process.

After her status is adjusted and she obtains her Green Card, she will be able to work legally and stay until the Removal of Conditions process in about 2 years. After that, she’s good for another 10 years.

Ray

[Ray]

What would they do with a guy like me?

For the first two years (of the last three), I have made >$18K. For the last one, I made less than $18K because I was in school full time. Now that I have graduated and passed the exams stating I can practice, my income will be much greater than the minimum.

So I was thinking I could work one year, file a tax return, and then see if they'd allow a visa. With my new job title and one full year of income, you think they'd overlook that massive dip in income from last year??

Cap is correct. The primary factor is your CURRENT income from employment.

They only want to see your last one year’s tax return, not 3 years.

If you are currently employed in a full time permanent position and making a good income at the time of her visa interview, you should be OK. They will understand why a student had a lower income. Just explain in your affidavit.

There is no need to wait until you have been working for one year or more.

Ray

[piglett]

Pig,

A fiancée visa allows your bride to stay in the US temporarily, for 90 days, so that you can marry here.

After you marry, she must adjust her status to legal permanent resident in order to stay legally. You should download Forms I-485 and I-765 from CIS and study the filing instructions carefully. It’s better to be prepared in advance.
Ray

Thanks for the info Ray
If everything checks out once i get to manila I intend to get the ball rolling so i can fly back within 90 days & marry her in front of her family. I would love to stay 3 weeks & do everything rite then but i just can't get the time off from work so that dog will not hunt. This will give Marily time to plan a budget wedding also. So i guess there will not be any need for a fiancee visa.



piglett                   

[Ray]

Pig,

You sound like you’re ready to tie the knot.   

If things work out and you want to start the process during your first trip, I suggest that you get the affidavit of legal capacity to marry from the US Embassy and apply for a marriage license. There is a mandatory 10-day wait for the license and it is good for 120 days. You will probably need to attend some counseling/family planning class as part of the license procedure.

That way, you will be good to go when you return within 90 days.

If you have ever been married, you will need a full copy of the divorce decree. Bring a certified copy of your birth cert also.

You are correct. If you marry over there, you won’t be applying for a fiancée visa, but a spouse visa.

Ray

[piglett]

Pig,
You sound like you’re ready to tie the knot.   
If things work out and you want to start the process during your first trip, I suggest that you get the affidavit of legal capacity to marry from the US Embassy and apply for a marriage license. There is a mandatory 10-day wait for the license and it is good for 120 days. You will probably need to attend some counseling/family planning class as part of the license procedure.
That way, you will be good to go when you return within 90 days.
If you have ever been married, you will need a full copy of the divorce decree. Bring a certified copy of your birth cert also.
You are correct. If you marry over there, you won’t be applying for a fiancée visa, but a spouse visa.
Ray

That is the plan.......... get all of the leg work done while i am there the 1st time & jump on a plane, get married & head back to work all within a few days on the 2nd trip. Yes in a perfect world i would take 3 or 4 month long trips to the PI but it's just not going 2 work out that way for me so there's no point crying about it, is there?


BTW anyone know how long a nursing board review class is in manila?
maybe she will need to take a test 1st to see where she's at??
i want Marily to spend her time while waiting for her visa, studying for her nursing test not working 12 hours a day 6 days a week for almost no money.
so i guess I'll have to figure out how much she needs a month to live off of.
probably the amount she makes now, i would guess
not sure what that # is because i try not to talk too much about money with her.
I do know that she is very very tight with her cash so i think that's an excellent sign.


piglett 

[Howard]

Hey Howard,

Wasn’t Luther on SSI? According to the law, you are no longer eligible for SSI benefits after you have been out of the country for a month.

What does he do for income now?

Ray

Ray,

I believe that is his income.  I'm pretty sure he has it direct deposited to a US bank near where his family lives and uses their address for any correspondence,  He accesses it via the internet.

Nice deal, eh?

Keep the Faith

H

[robert angel]

Bear, Ray--and especially Howard--- I appreciate your replies to my initial query about "Whatever happened to Luther". I knew from the get go that the guy had some issues and was cynical and eccentric, but I hoped that he would find something better that would also be good or 'better' for everyone involved with him.

I feel a little bad because my curiosity was self serving, but I for one, have learned from the replies, especially Howards. As a number of people have said, it's hard for us to grasp the differences between our western ways and ways over there.

I can get long winded, wordy and critical of govts and large organizations. When I move over there, I'll try and listen more and not run the risk of being a bitter critic. From waht I've seen, most people there sort of accept things as the way they are and have always been, maybe rolling their eyes and even laughing. Sure, protests in cities seem to be always ongong, but that's different than how we protest in the USA as well. I think severely bashing your own govt. overseas (especially when they're supporting you financially) is like bad mouthing your own family--not classy and doesn't do much good. All this info has just made me tell myself to 'look, listen and learn' when I'm over there and not to be a 'know it all'--something that takes discipline when sometimes, we get frustrated with certain ways of life there. It's too easy and unfair to apply our own yardsticks of measurement about the way things 'should really be' when in fact we're walking into a land where things just aren't and never will be the way things are in out native countries.

Too many foreigners over there already give the rest of us a bad reputation and while I have tried when over there to be humble, respectful and to learn and listen (hard when they treat me like a rock star--one who likes to take people out to eat, help with medical care, etc) My wife has told me that what means the most to her friends, family and barangay members is that I am not against doing menial work with people there and I can get down on the ground and talk with adults and kids alike and not act like I am any better than any other person. It takes a while for the novelty of the large white man with hair all over his body (except on top his head) to wear off, but I do notice the change in how much I am accepted after a while there. I know I'll never truly be seen as a Pinoy--for better or worse. Like anywhere else, respect and affection is a two way street.

To irritate and alienate the family unit in the Philippines--all the while one that that accepts you over there, seems to me about the worst thing you could do--totally against one of the most core values over there. Jovie has always seemed to be warm, wonderful person who has sacrificed a lot for others. As I have said, I hoped for better, but was concerned.
Thanks for the info, sad as it is. It was worthwhile for me to read.

[Capstone]

As a K-1 fiancée, she will be eligible for a conditional Social Security Card upon arrival and can legally work for the first 90 days of her stay. After that, she should obtain an EAD employment authorization card, which is part of the adjustment of status process.

This is unfortunately no longer correct - believe me I just went through this very recently because my wife had an opportunity to take a temporary job before her EAD arrived and it was not possible. DHS came out with a new I-9 at the beginning of this year which prevents a K-1 from legally working at any time without an EAD - a K-1 will not have the required documentation needed to show a potential employer for employment verification as laid out in the new I-9. The social security card that a K-1 receives will have 'Valid For Work Only With DHS Authorization' stamped on it and so according to the new I-9 requires a potential employer to verify that the person also has either an EAD or Green Card. The expiration date on the I-94 is of no relevance now.

Compounding this, is that a K-1 without an EAD will also come back as NOT Work Authorized in the E-Verify system which DHS provides for employers. I had my HR guy run my wife through the system and she came back as NOT Authorized to work. I also spoke with a friend of mine who is the HR Director at one of the largest Gaming/Casino groups in Las Vegas and he told me that they get at least 10 K-1s without EAD a month come in looking for temporary work and that they have not been able to hire any of them - they use the E-Verify system and they all come back as being NOT Authorized to work.

After I ran into this roadblock I decided that I would make an InfoPass appointment and try to have the local field office go ahead and issue my wife a temporary EAD but I found out that this is no longer possible either. Local Field offices no longer handle any EAD issuance - this function is now handled entirely by the National Service Centers (USCIS actually has this posted on their website now). The only EAD related reason that you can make an InfoPass appointment for now is if it has been over 90 days since you applied for an EAD and you still have not received it.

So I guess what my long winded story is meant to do is just to warn guys that their fiancées will not be able to legally work right away when they arrive - you will have to apply for and receive their EAD first. One good thing though is that it only took 6 weeks for my wife to get her EAD, so at least that does seem to be running pretty smoothly. 

[Howard]

Robert,

I guess the thing that bothers me most is that I know several of the people involved.  Luther could be a king over there and doesn’t seem to realize the opportunity he has been handed.  To be fair, I’m sure he was approached with a lot of “business” ideas when he first got there and that made him more paranoid than he already was to begin with.  I think the biggest thing is that his wife is afraid to tell him when he is acting badly.  Since he must have some kind of problem knowing what’s going on around him it’s compounded over there, because everyone is so accommodating.  I’m not even sure he knows how it gets sometimes because he doesn’t – or didn’t – speak the language.

My advice to you is to be benevolent, but be wise.  You can’t make everyone there happy any more than you can make everyone here happy.  Just be careful that your happiness doesn’t ruin other’s happiness.  Listen carefully to your wife and explain to her how important it is for you to fit in, but to not be taken advantage of.  Just be yourself and be cool and you will do fine. 

It’s funny because you never know what will make the difference between being liked and tolerated.  My wife told me that the reason why her family warmed to me so quickly is because I played with the kids.  It was that simple.  Yes, I have an outgoing personality and a huge sense of humor.  Her father noted the effort I made to communicate with him and that I always seemed sincere.  I looked people in the eye and have a firm hand shake, but the difference for me was the kids.  There is a TON of them and they were always on or around me.  Girlie would try and “shoe” them away and I would protest and say that I was having fun, which I was.  They never once bothered me with their attention and some of the relationships I made when I was there are only stronger today.

When I last went to the Philippines, I was lucky enough to find my one true love, but I fell in love with her entire Family and their traditions.  I think anyone who chooses our path and doesn’t make the effort to learn about his wife’s culture, does himself a disservice.  I know I am a better man because of my wife and I thank her every day for marrying me 

Good Luck Man!

Keep the Faith

H

[Ray]

Great advice Howard! 

[Ray]

“As a K-1 fiancée, she will be eligible for a conditional Social Security Card upon arrival and can legally work for the first 90 days of her stay. After that, she should obtain an EAD employment authorization card, which is part of the adjustment of status process.”

This is unfortunately no longer correct…

Actually, my statement was correct. A K-1 holder can LEGALLY work based on K-1 status. It’s federal law.

However, as you pointed out, finding an employer to hire a K-1 without an EAD is a big problem. Whether or not the K-1 holder has the documentation specified on the I-9, or is listed as authorized in the E-Verify system, it is not illegal to hire a K-1.

CIS has issued guidelines in the past stating that a K-1can show evidence of employment authorization by producing either an EAD Card, OR an unexpired I-94. The reason being that CIS (DHS) cannot issue an EAD to a K-1 in most cases before the K-1 status expires in 90 days, effectively denying them their right to work as spelled out in federal law.
 
Unfortunately, most employers don’t know of the policy or simply don’t want to take a chance by employing a K-1. You can’t really blame the employers because the I-9, E-verify, etc, don’t make any specific allowances for K-1s without an EAD. Why bother with all the hassles if other documented applicants are available?

Even if a K-1 gains employment, another problem arises when the 90-days are up and they are no longer under K-1 status. Unless they married right after arrival and applied for adjustment and an EAD soon after marriage, there will be a gap where legal right to work is very questionable.

So yes Cap, I guess you can say, as a practical matter, your fiancée will likely not be able to work until she gets her EAD Card, regardless of what the law says.

Could DHS have helped you when you attempted to get a temporary EAD via an InfoPass appointment with the local office? I would think it would be very simple to issue an official letter explaining her temporary legal employment status to satisfy a potential employer. But…

Ray

[Capstone]

Actually, my statement was correct. A K-1 holder can LEGALLY work based on K-1 status. It’s federal law.

However, as you pointed out, finding an employer to hire a K-1 without an EAD is a big problem. Whether or not the K-1 holder has the documentation specified on the I-9, or is listed as authorized in the E-Verify system, it is not illegal to hire a K-1.

CIS has issued guidelines in the past stating that a K-1can show evidence of employment authorization by producing either an EAD Card, OR an unexpired I-94. The reason being that CIS (DHS) cannot issue an EAD to a K-1 in most cases before the K-1 status expires in 90 days, effectively denying them their right to work as spelled out in federal law.

Actually your statement was incorrect - there is no Federal Law which states that a K-1 is eligible to work without first obtaining work authorization from DHS - and it would be illegal for an employer to hire someone without first verifying the required documents as outlined on the I-9. Page 53 of the attached DHS document spells it out very clearly. It shows that K-1 is authorized to work incident to status however an EAD must be obtained first. "Thus, persons in these categories are permitted to work once they
have applied for, and been issued , an Employment Authorization Document (EAD) from USCIS." 
http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/Nonimmigrants_2006.pdf

I researched this matter very extensively several months ago and found out what initiated the change to the I-9 which no longer allows for an unexpired I-94 to be used as employment verification. The SSA underwent an internal audit in which it was found that there was an abnormally higher than usual fraud rate among social security numbers issued to K-1s before marriage. The SSA auditors recommended that DHS clarify their position on the work status of K-1s and the auditors also recommended that SS numbers no longer be issued to K-1s before marriage.
DHS countered that it was never their intent for K-1s to work without first obtaining work authorization however SS cards should still be issued to unmarried K-1s because some states still require a SS# in order to issue a marriage license. Thus the agreement was that all SS cards issued to K-1s would also be stamped "Valid For Work Only With DHS Authorization" and that the I-9 would be updated to close the loophole of using an unexpired I-94 as employment eligibility verification.

[Ray]

 there is no Federal Law which states that a K-1 is eligible to work without first obtaining work authorization from DHS

Cap,

Of course the law doesn't state that you don't need an EAD and I never said it did.

I’ll leave all the legal interpretations to the lawyers, but when congress writes a law that says a fiancée visa holder is authorized to work based on his/her status as a K-1, then they have a legal right to work under the law based on that status.

How INS (DHS) implements the law should not deny that right, but in actuality it does just that when it requires a work authorization document that cannot be provided in a timely manner. That’s all I’m saying.

This discussion has been going on for years and INS has had a policy in the past that specifically allowed certain classes of visa holders, including K-1s, to work without an EAD. What their policy will be tomorrow who knows.

Like you mentioned, local immigration offices used to issue temporary EADs to K-1s with no fee to satisfy skeptical employers. By stopping that option, they have effectively taken away the right of most K-1s to work during their 90-day status period.

Ray

[Capstone]

Cap,

Of course the law doesn't state that you don't need an EAD and I never said it did.

I’ll leave all the legal interpretations to the lawyers, but when congress writes a law that says a fiancée visa holder is authorized to work based on his/her status as a K-1, then they have a legal right to work under the law based on that status.

Ray here is the Federal law that you keep mentioning taken right out of the Code of Federal Regulations which governs nonimmigrants right to work - the law specifically states that a K-1 has a right to work incident to status provided that they have first gotten an EAD. There are no provisions/exceptions given that state that a K-1 can work for 90 days after entering the US before an EAD is required. The way the law was written, it is obvious that they require an EAD for K-1s as a money making tool - notice the 'with fee' blurb when indicating that an EAD is required.


§ Sec. 214.2(k) Spouses, Fiancees, and Fiances of United States Citizens.

(9) Employment authorization . An alien admitted to the United States as a nonimmigrant under section 101(a)(15)(K) of the Act shall be authorized to work incident to status for the period of authorized stay. K-1/K-2 aliens seeking work authorization must apply and obtain, with fee, to the Service for work authorization pursuant to § 274a.12(a)(6) of this chapter. K-3/K-4 aliens must apply to the Service for a document evidencing employment authorization pursuant to § 274a.12(a)(9) of this chapter. Employment authorization documents issued to K-3/K-4 aliens may be renewed only upon a showing that the applicant has an application or petition awaiting approval, equivalent to the showing required for an extension of stay pursuant to § 214.2(k)(10) .

1. Federal Law states that a K-1 must obtain an EAD before working
2. DHS which is the branch of government that is repsonsible for determining who is eligible to work or not has clarified this point in numerous documents including the Non Immigrant Admissions Handbook & I-9 Employer Handbook - All K-1s must apply for and obtain an EAD before being authorized to work.
3. The I-9 which DHS creates and must be followed by all employers when hiring an employee prevents a K-1 from being hired without an EAD.
4. The E-Verify system which was created in order to verify if someone is authorized to work or not when their documents may be in question says that K-1s are NOT authorized to work without an EAD.
5. All K-1 SS cards now specifically state on them: "Valid for Work only with DHS Authorization".

All of this = K-1s must have an EAD before they can legally work - period, there is no way around it. I certainly wish it was otherwise because my wife could have benfited from being able to work her first 90 days in the US.

[jm21-2]

How the heck can you travel to Asia making around the poverty line in any case? The guy living in his parent's basement saving every penny for the trip? It's about minimum wage here in WA.

I was worried about income because I was self-employed and as this is my first year of running a business there were a lot of start up expenses and I'm trying to make my income appear as low as possible for taxes. But I think I'd have to try pretty hard to get down to 125% of the poverty line...

[thekfc]

I have been following the "discussion" on K-1 & EAD, and what I get is:

The EAD takes time to get which means that the time after getting the EAD & the end of the 90 days will be short. The majority of employers will not want to hire someone in that situation.

What happen after the 90 days is up?
That would means that she is no longer under K-1 status and the EAD is no longer valid and she could no longer work until....

Wouldn't it be better to wait until you get married & then file for both an EAD & the application for permanent residence at the same time?

Am I correct on this?

[Ray]

I have been following the "discussion" on K-1 & EAD, and what I get is:

The EAD takes time to get which means that the time after getting the EAD & the end of the 90 days will be short. The majority of employers will not want to hire someone in that situation.

What happen after the 90 days is up?
That would means that she is no longer under K-1 status and the EAD is no longer valid and she could no longer work until....

Wouldn't it be better to wait until you get married & then file for both an EAD & the application for permanent residence at the same time?

Am I correct on this?

Yes, even if your fiancée applied for an EAD right after arrival, it has historically taken as long as 60-90 days to process the EAD. And this EAD like you stated is only good for the 90-day period after arrival and then a new EAD would be required. End result = most all fiancées are denied their right to work by INS (DHS) polices in direct conflict with the intent of the original law.

It not only would be better to wait for the adjustment process to apply for an EAD, but that is about the only practical option available right now. Immigration used to issue free temporary EADs to K-1 holders so that they could work without problem, but according to Cap they no longer do this and I’ll take his word for it.

The period between the end of the 90-days and the approval of the AOS/EAD petition is a gray area that has been under consideration for a change in policies.

Ray

[Ray]

Here is a related discussion of proposed changes to K-1 EAD requirements by DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/CISOmbudsman_RR_25_EAD_03-20-06.pdf

Some key points:

--There is no evidence of employment authorization for a K-1 prior to adjudication of the EAD based on the K-1 nonimmigrant visa. Additionally, there is no continuous evidence of employment authorization where the individual’s EAD expires at the end of his/her K-1 stay and before a new adjustment-based EAD is adjudicated and issued.
Thus, there is often a gap in evidence of employment authorization for K-1s both prior to issuance of the EAD based on the K-1 and when the K-1 and attendant EAD expires prior to issuance of the EAD based on the adjustment application. USCIS could address this gap by 1) amending 8 C.F.R. §274a.12 so that K-1 nonimmigrants, who are work authorized incident to status, would not need to apply for an EAD; and 2) providing for an automatic extension of the first EAD if the adjustment application is timely filed.


--While in most instances where the nonimmigrant classification and attendant employment authorization are not specific to the petitioner, as opposed to open market employment authorization, the regulations require that the foreign national apply for an EAD. However, this is not the case with asylees, and there would appear to be no rationale for the EAD requirement for K-1s.

Ray

[Ray]

Cap,

You are correct that the CFR specifically requires K-1s to apply for an EAD and I never disputed that point.

One of our attorney members can please correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding of the legal process:

Congress enacts the statutory law and then the executive (INS/DHS) writes specific policies/regulations/procedures to implement the law, which becomes the law as stated under the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations).

The EAD requirement would be an example of one of one of these regulations implemented by INS/DHS.

My whole point was that the implementation of INS regulations in the case of K-1 visa holders and the requirement to apply for an EAD effectively denies them their right to work, during the validity period of their visa, under statutory law.

INS/CIS has recognized this in the past and made allowances by bending the rules. For example, Immigration used to stamp K-1 passports at certain ports of entry to authorize work without an EAD.

Another example would be the INS memo to SSA making a special case for K-1s on EAD requirements.

Ray

[piglett]

How the heck can you travel to Asia making around the poverty line in any case? The guy living in his parent's basement saving every penny for the trip? It's about minimum wage here in WA.

I was worried about income because I was self-employed and as this is my first year of running a business there were a lot of start up expenses and I'm trying to make my income appear as low as possible for taxes. But I think I'd have to try pretty hard to get down to 125% of the poverty line...

It's all about what your expenses are.
if you had a house that was paid for & a car that was paid for what would you have for expenses??
on the other hand if you just leased a new BMW @ $500 a month & your rent is $1200 a month then hell no 14k a year dam sure will not get it done for you.

the mortgage on my house is an adjustable rate, it's tied to the T-bill what's the T-bill something around 3/4% ??
my payment just keeps dropping & except for cell phone, internet, food, insurance on my truck i have very few bills.
so in my case 14k would be doable. don't get me wrong i like money as much as the next guy & if i see a situation where i can better myself...........well sure that would be fine with me. But until the economy starts to turn around i think i will just keep hunkering down where I'm at.  


piglett    

[jm21-2]

It's all about what your expenses are.
if you had a house that was paid for & a car that was paid for what would you have for expenses??
on the other hand if you just leased a new BMW @ $500 a month & your rent is $1200 a month then hell no 14k a year dam sure will not get it done for you.

the mortgage on my house is an adjustable rate, it's tied to the T-bill what's the T-bill something around 3/4% ??
my payment just keeps dropping & except for cell phone, internet, food, insurance on my truck i have very few bills.
so in my case 14k would be doable. don't get me wrong i like money as much as the next guy & if i see a situation where i can better myself...........well sure that would be fine with me. But until the economy starts to turn around i think i will just keep hunkering down where I'm at.  


piglett    

I somehow doubt that the typical person making $14k/year owns their own house and car. In any case, cars break down, houses need repairs, property taxes, home owner's insurance, etc. We're talking about teenage burger flipping wages here.

If I was retired cruising SE Asia on a boat, $14k would be OK. Living on the dirt and having to work? Hell no. Doable, but who would want to? And flying to Asia as well, and paying all the immigration fees?

[thekfc]

I somehow doubt that the typical person making $14k/year owns their own house and car. In any case, cars break down, houses need repairs, property taxes, home owner's insurance, etc. We're talking about teenage burger flipping wages here.

If I was retired cruising SE Asia on a boat, $14k would be OK. Living on the dirt and having to work? Hell no. Doable, but who would want to? And flying to Asia as well, and paying all the immigration fees?

  14k may or may not be enough for a family of two to live on- depending on where you live. As expensive as NYC is, I have seen people do it here.

Although I do not own a home (or car), I do believe I am making enough to support & raise a family.
Depending on which Academic Class Models you look at - I could either be considered working class or Lower middle class.


I live in an apartment building - NYC is too expensive to buy a house.
I do not own a car - there is too much hassle driving & parking in NYC, I used to own a car but got rid of it because I use to drive it about once a month, maybe less, it was more convenient for me to take the train/bus. Public transportation is the way to go if you life in NYC. Plus you would avoid all that road rage. hehehe

[Luther]

 Hi everybody, this is Luther. I came to the forum today to change my email address and saw this thread so I had better respond, don't you think? My responses will be addressed to Howard, Ray, Bear, and Robert Angel. Happy Fathers Day everyone.
 TO ALL: Remember what you read in Culture Shock: Philippines. I might mention some tendencies of the Filipino cultural personality that are not meant to sound critical, true though they may be. This book is required reading, I read it before I came here the first time. It is extremely accurate, and it is written by Filipinos.
 ROBERT SAID:
Does anyone know what ever happened to Luther, please? Some of you might remember him from several years ago. Around 2004--2005, I was in and out of the forums here and had some cordial exchanges with "Luther". I no longer have any contact info with the gentleman.
 
 I know he had more than his share of trials and tribulations and I hope he found happiness in the PI with Jovie, but I wasn't able to glean anything conclusive from the archives here.  They may have ended up in the states, for all I know. We were both going through some milestones in our lives back then and shared experiences with each other--he was very nice and it was easy to empathize with him. Any information would be appreciated.
 
 ROBERT: Thanks for asking. I moved to the Philippines in the autumn of 2005 and have enjoyed living here since. I don't know about you, but my trials and tribulations started the day I was born, eh? Along with the joy and pleasure of gradually learning that the antidote often grows next to the poison. You are absolved for starting this trashfest of a thread since you are innocent of the things said below, and if you're still in the Philippines it would be nice to meet you. I love it here. My marriage has its ups and downs as all marriages do. I will try to shed what light I can on why some people, more than others, tend to hold grudges, use other people as scapegoats, emphasize the negative about someone they have never met, believe negative gossip and pass it on in public places, etc. I'll try to use few words because I tend to get kind of wordy sometimes when I write. Under the circumstances I honestly doubt that I will keep it short.
 BEAR SAID:
Howard's brother-in-law by marriage.  You and I have very different opinions.  He made Howard's life pretty tough and last I heard things weren't so great in the R.P. for him/Jovie but that was at least 2 years back.
 TO BEAR:
Your opinion about me is predictable and born up by no facts. I have had no contact with Howard except for about 2 emails since I came here, he lives in the US and I live in the Phils. Give Howard credit, he is a big strong man and I would have had to try pretty hard to make his life pretty tough from this distance. He is my wife's niece's husband. As such I am his elder and he owes me a certain amount of respect. Not according to the cynical way in which Americans treat strangers they have never met, but according to the Filipino way of doing things, in which you will go out of your way to avoid disputes and disturbances, allow people to save face by looking the other way when they make a mistake, and even make excuses for your brothers and sisters on the path. Bear, you have never said anything remotely friendly to me ever since I let it slip that I am not a conservative Republican. Several people wrote to me while I was active on the forum and told me what they thought of the way I was being treated on the forum.
ROBERT SAID:
I realized 'Luther' was an eccentric person with economic,  employment  and other challenges, but I wished the best for him.
(THANKS ROBERT, I enjoy being an oddball and work 24/7 in spite of a very small income.) 
ROBERT: Sometimes we try and move far, far away, hoping that we can leave our troubles behind, only to find that somehow, they still come along with us.
 ME: I have not been followed by everything I left behind in the US. Moving here did solve some of my problems and I am grateful for this every day. I love it here and don't have plans to go back to the US.
 
 ROBERT: Sounds like you (Bear) have a lot more first hand information about how things moved along than I did. (WHICH FIRST HAND? BEAR DOESN'T KNOW ME FROM THE MAN IN THE MOON!) I hoped for better things and apparently, as I was wary of, they didn't come to pass. (BASED ON WHAT?)
 
 

[Luther]

 BEAR SAID:
I'm hoping Howard will jump in but last I heard I believe Jovie inherited the family home in the R.P. and Luther kicked everyone out (YOU HEARD WRONG AND PASSED ON MALICIOUS GOSSIP) making the whole family mad at both him/Jovie (JOVIE'S FAMILY IS INCAPABLE OF BEING ANGRY WITH HER) and in some ways Howard/Gerlie.  Some of the other guys who have lived in the R.P. can better explain why thats such a big deal better than I can.  Still, that's all hearsay (YUP!) and hopefully Howard will give better details (WHY??? WHAT IS SO ENJOYABLE ABOUT DISHING DIRT ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB ABOUT SOMEONE YOU HAVE NEVER MET?) because I am not sure my information is accurate. (AGREED)
 
 HOWARD SAID: Luther has some sort of mental disability, for which he receives a government check for each month.
 ME: Not your business, nephew, to pass on. "Some kind of…" indicates your lack of information, I would like you to delete that remark as this is the world wide web and you are making public statements that could affect my well being in society. Neither my mental capacity/incapacity nor my financial business is going to be fodder for your public discussions. This thread contains my real (nick)name that I have used for 30 years, my wife's real name and real lifelong nickname, and the real name of the village where I live. Get my drift? These forums are supposed to be anonymous, so you should be careful about trashing people while giving out identifying information about them.
 
 HOWARD SAID: Because of his income he couldn't bring Jovie here K-1 without someone else signing an affidavit of support, so the plan was to marry there and come back in a year on a K-3.  That was several years ago.
 ME: That was my wife's plan for her future, which she did not discuss with me. The pattern has been for her to discuss it with her sisters, brothers, nieces, but as for what she plans to get me to do, that is a matter of manipulation, not straightforward conversation. After I arrived I gradually started learning what was planned for me. Finding this thread today, I learned a lot about what lies, distortions, generalizations, omissions have been spread behind my back. Do you honestly think that everyone involved is innocent and perfect with no ulterior motives, while I am a treacherous demon of some kind? Tinuod man?
 
 HOWARD: In preparation for his yearlong stay in the Philippines, he made improvements to the house to make it more comfortable for him while he was still here in the states.  Nothing huge, nothing any one of us wouldn't have done, just a window AC for what would be their living area and some other structural improvements.  This would all have been fine, except for the fact that there was a family already living there.  Of course, it was no problem for him, he just told his wife to have them leave.  … Anyway, so Luther is barking orders from Oregon and love struck Jovie is doing what any good Filipina would, honoring her husband above all.  When told to evacuate the upper portion of the house “ a house that she didn't even live at because she worked in the city and stayed near work " she did so, displacing a family of four.  With nowhere else to turn, Gerlie's Uncle had to turn to us for help.  He had some of the money to build a house nearby on his property “ he was planning it " but not all he needed, especially when this happened in an instance.  Being one of my favorite uncles, we helped with the rest.
 ME: This is the part that could get you sued, I expect a retraction. Here are the facts. After we got married and I returned to the States to set up home for us, it became apparent that I had rushed into something I couldn't afford, as you suggest, and since I had learned AFTER already planning the marriage & wedding and going to the Phils for a monthlong vacation including the wedding, that my fiancee was a property owner, I gradually worked up the courage, when back at my job in Oregon, to suggest we live in the Philippines instead. I knew she wanted to live in the US but I had no choice. I was surprised when she agreed, forgetting what I'd read in Culture Shock that she could be just pretending to agree in order to prevent an argument. But she was enthusiastic, saying only that "when" I got bored with the Phils we could move to the States…she assumed I would get bored with it, the joke's on her! She should have canceled the wedding, and tried to, but her sister wouldn't let her. This is what she told me after we were married for three years. She had already sent out the announcements and then got cold feet, but her oldest sister, the head of the family, your mother in law, said she had to go through with it or the whole family would be embarrassed. My wife's words to me. In the same conversation three years into the marriage, she said that her reason for not saying her vows at the wedding, after the priest said, "This is the moment of truth…" was that she had been pushed into the marriage and had better prospects if she had been more patient. I was in a rush, she was in a rush, we make mistakes together, do we not? It takes two to tango, I had plenty of cold feet and also didn't back out, so I consider it an arranged marriage between strangers…arranged by us two! And quite the subject for debate among people who don't talk to me and don't know who I am and have no idea where I stand on anything, except for what they hear second and thirdhand.
 Window air conditioner my butt, where do you get your information? I won't even sit in front of a fan, I catch cold very easily here and have never cared for aircon. Never bought an air conditioner in my life. While I was back in the States she told me we would live in her house (HER house) and I felt bad because, as you state, the house was being used. She assured me it was no problem and has since said many times that her brothers WANTED their own place, so maybe you should spend more time talking with people while I am there, not behind my back, because it might keep them honest. Remember your Culture Shock lessons: family loyalty has folks backing each other up because they're related, not because what is being said is literally true. Gossip or "tsismis" spreads like wildfire when some freak like me comes along and does anything unexpected, and before you start making all kinds of www chitchat about how some screwed up misfit can't play well with others, can I ask how much time you've spent visiting with us in our home here in the Phils? Did you mention in any of your diatribe supposedly about me that you have never met me? Never even spoken to me on the phone? Guess you forgot, eh?
 Nephew, consider apologizing, you are in the wrong on so many levels and for so many reasons. The improvements to the house were paid for by me. One of three families moved out so my wife and I could live in the upstairs apartment alone. I paid her brother to do the carpentry, painting and wiring which my wife thought needed to be done, I was not a part of this decisionmaking and I wasn't there, I just sent money when she asked and paid more for the labor after I finally moved in. I also bought the windows for the new house that was built by the brother who moved out, and bought him new springs for his motorcycle. I never told anybody to move and the downstairs was still occupied by two families when I moved there, which was not a problem to me, as I have lived in many communal situations, have you? Got any idea from personal experience what it's like living with a bunch of people, or have you only ever lived with your small nuclear family? I happen to love living with a large extended family, and was not at all happy about the other brothers eventually moving out, but my wife insists that they wanted their own place. I think this house is too big for us three. Now get a clue dude, and start taking some giant steps backward. Realize that your source of information was hearsay from an angry person or two or three, and ask yourself how much of what they said was not exaggerated and tilted to their family advantage. Telling little white lies out of family loyalty, making excuses for your family members no matter how questionable their behavior, these are typical coping strategies in the Filipino way of life and you'd know that if you had done anything here but vacation her with an apparently unread copy of Culture Shock on your lap.