Back in BAQ (Trip report June 28-July 18)

[Quixote9]

Well, my trip did not go as I planned.... but I did meet a very beautiful girl that is now my girlfriend and who I love and more importantly I actually believe that she loves me.  So, despite all the unexpected and unfortunate stuff that happened I guess I should consider my trip a success.  Still have my doubts about the trustworthiness of Colombian women, but these have more do to lingering hurts and feelings of betrayal caused by my ex-girlfriend's cruelty than anything my new girlfriend has done.  I unfortunately think I have developed a lot of trust issues that, while they will protect me from getting hurt again, also keep me paranoid and hypervigilente of any possible red flag.  It will take me quite some time I think to really allow myself to believe in another person, and I hope that doesn't create a huge obstacle in my current relationship.

I have really found that everyone in Colombia (both male/female and colombiano/gringo myself included ) has a problem with honesty, and you really have to trust your own instincts when something feels strange or you think someone is hiding something from you.  I think 80-90% of the very attractive women on Jamie's site have boyfriends (depending on your definition of "boyfriend" that is), but if you ask them who else they are dating they will deny that they are seeing anyone but you.  I would avoid any woman who has been on Jamie's site for more than 2 months, as either something is wrong with her (crazy, boring, stupid, flaky, etc) or she is not really interested in meeting anyone (she is just a girl who likes to have gringos buy her dinner).  Look at the date on her profile that says "date profile last updated" and if it is more than a month old that means she hasn't been into the agency office in a month (probably because either she has a boyfriend or she isn't really interested in having a boyfriend).  Look for the girls who's profile is always getting updated constantly every few days... that means that they are actually saying yes to dates with Jamie's clients on a semi regular basis and not just saying yes when they are bored or can sneak out behind their boyfriends' backs.  Remember that good girls don't stay single for very long (more than a month is my guess) in Colombia, so if a girl has been up on Jamie's site for more than a month than she is either not really a good girl or not really single or both!!!

I feel that Jamie and his staff at International Introductions once again did an excellent job for me.  My translator was a very cool girl, and I feel bad because one night I decided to cut loose a little and have too much fun, and I think she got into trouble with Jamie because of my actions and she was held responsible for things that were not in anyway her own fault.  I offered to explain to her boss how things just got a little out of hand, and how she wasn't responsible for any of it, and how she in fact had really looked out for me... but I think she was too proud or something to accept my offer as she seemed very hell bent on quiting before she could get fired.  Too bad because the entire thing seemed like a simple misunderstanding. Jamie himself gave me lots of good advice as usual and I felt he watched out for me behind the scenes.  The woman who takes care of the house in Salgar is a real gem, one of my absolute favorite Colombians to talk to and I can not say enough good things about her!!!  Her son is also a really cool and helpful little boy 

In addition to Jamie's help I also used an outside translator who used to work for him and now she has started her own matchmaking business.  Her name is Maria Jose, and sometimes posts on PL as findalatina, and she did a really wonderful job for me. She really does allot more for you than you would expect for the amount of money you pay her, she is a great value if you don't have much money to work with. That was the case for me this time around (First Colombian girlfriend really wiped me out financially! This time around I am keeping my purse stings pulled tight!) and using her services allowed me to stay in a budget hotel closer to the restaurants/discos/malls that I like in Barranquilla. This saved me a lot of money on taxis too! I would highly recommend Findalatina to anyone, she will really look out after you and have your back.

Unfortunately Jamie learned that I was using one of his former employees/competitors services and felt very put off by my.. I dunno...  lack of loyalty, unethical behavior, or disrespecting the excellent work his agency had done for me in the past .. well I am not sure which exactly... but Jamie informed me that I can not expect help from him in the future.  Things were said that I did not really understand because neither he, nor Maria Jose I felt, gave me a completely strait answer about their mutual falling out... I don't read every post on PL but I am sure the answer is posted here somewhere... but I like and respect both of them I don't feel the responsibliity or disire to choose sides or referee.   The situation still upsets me a little because I feel like I re-payed Jamie's hospitality (he did very much go out of his way to make sure I had a great trip and was completely taken care of whenever I was staying with him) with a lack of gratitude on my part, and that isn't something I am particularly proud of  . I would still recommend using his services to anyone thinking of going to Barranquilla to meet someone special and hope neither He nor Maria Jose is offended by me discussing what is perhaps a private matter here on PL.  I don't want to air anyones dirty laundry, just want people to know their might be a conflict if you try and work with both of them, and IMHO both of them are the most driven & hardest working people in Colombia.

I hope to post a more detailed trip report later.

[GatoAzul]

Glad that you have found your girlfriend (hope she isn't the tigre blanco next to your photo lol).  Hope your girlfriend will last lifetime this time.

Anyway, 2 of the girls from Jamie's Site are on my FaceBook and they are both 'In a Relationship' even though they both are still in Jamie's with one of them has recently updated!

It is my turn to have a tigre blanco next to me LOL

Anyway, thank you for your interesting report ..........  and best of luck with your girlfriend

[bcc_1_2]

Quixote9, now that Jamie is running background checks and informing the ladies of your background (as he has told this forum)... well did Jamie do a background check?

Anyways if I run a drug store and you are a loyal customer and I find out you stopped at another drug store the other day... would I refuse to service you in the future? Or if I ran a hotel and you were a loyal customer and I find out you stayed at another hotel in town.... should I refuse you a room in the future?

That being said by now you should know what you are getting into if you go down to see Jamie because he has been reviewed to death.

Bottomline is that his agency doesn't meet my criteria for working with an agency, so I would not suggest you use him or anyone else that doesn't meet this simple criteria.

When using an agency they should deliver a girl... and then you should pay them per cita. In this economy... if anyone won't do that... BYE!

Anyways you found a girlfriend... so just use the big head and you'll be in good shape.

On one issue I'll actually have to come to the defense of Jamie's agency. Jamie has a huge online database of women (which is why guys are willing to deal with him), so you can't expect them all to not be out dating others. They aren't sitting a home waiting for you to come along (and why should you expect that). So what if they are dating others?

I was never bothered by that because well... I must have a huge ego. Quixote9 I'd say yours could use a little boost. My only concern was some angry guy coming after me.

[bcc_1_2]

Yeah....that's customer relations at it's finest.  That is Jamie's type of ethics, integrity and character.  

Have your statement and argument ready Quixote.  Because as we all know....Jamie will dissect each and every letter, punctuation and paragraph your wrote and turn it around and double talk so much that you don't know what the heck he is saying.  

No question about your points. In the past Jamie didn't take criticism he'd come on and just post monster deflection posts. But Sean I see no reason to get caught up in any of that.

My personal opinion is that the agency scene has poisoned the gringo/latina dating culture a little bit down there. If this relationship doesn't work out for Quixote I'd seriously suggest he go check out Managua, La Ceiba, Escazu, Panama City, Santiago (Chile) etc.

I found an unspoiled beach girl (fluent in english) from Tela, Honduras... so you don't have to go to Agency City, Colombia to meet the girl of your dreams. And the impression/stereotype that Colombia has all the hotties and Central America is full of wide bodied uggos...is extremely false.

[sean126]

That is another good option also BCC! 

[Researcher]

 Quixote,
    Sounds like you are learning things the hard way.Oh well, I did too. If an agency owner told me not to expect any future help, he would not get my future business and I would broadcast it everywhere I could,especially here.Some of these guys forget who the CUSTOMER is. You're too nice Quixote.I hope you get lucky and find what you are looking for soon.

Researcher

[Quixote9]

I am not TOO nice, I am only trying to fair and honest. Every story has more than one side and I don't really know his, like that whole professor gates/Sgt Crowley mess that happend up at Harvard.  Two reasonable people can view the same experience in two completely different way. No need to over react to it.

I am not planing on joining the ranks of people who hate on Jamie.

But obviously I am not planing on using his services in the future because I would no longer feel comfortable (not because I think he does a bad job), and he has already expressed that he is not comfortable/interested in having me back, so I guess that makes us even.  That does not make me his enemy though, and I hope he does not see me as one, and I do not think he is unethical or a bad guy.  Perhaps a gringo trying to run a business in Colombia with everyone there trying to take advantage of him has made him a bit overly sensitive is all, just my humble opinion.

[sean126]

Quixote,

Putting Jamie's issue aside....I really enjoyed your recent trip report.  I also enjoyed all of your posts on here and I sincerely hope that you will not take this the wrong way but...You are too nice and people will take advantage of that.  I'm not talking about people like Jamie....but a boat load of women also.  If you expect to have any success at all with a Latina you will need to develop a little more dominance in your demeanor.   I hope that came out right without sounding condescending or anything disrespectful.  It took a little time to come up with words that wouldn't put someone on the defensive right off.  that's not easy for me to do, because I'm a blunt type of person. 

You seem like a heck of a guy and any woman is lucky to have you....but a majority of women will see you coming a mile away and play you like a fiddle.  It's nothing bad about being too nice, but as I said...your not going to have very good luck if you don't "use um" like you got a pair.  I've got a couple of friends that are the same way....but they always seem to end up on the short end of the deal. 

No one is asking you to join the ranks of hating Jamie....but as you said, 2 people can see a situation 2 different ways.   

I don't know how long you've known your new girlfriend to fall so much in love with her...but I'm happy for you.  Just be smart and good luck to you.

[bcc_1_2]

If you expect to have any success at all with a Latina you will need to develop a little more dominance in your demeanor.   I hope that came out right without sounding condescending or anything disrespectful.  

Well if you did or if you didn't I'll agree 100% with you. It is sound advice.

I'm going to dish out some advice based on a scenario I was involved in. Hopefully it won't cause posters to go ballistic, but if it happens to help Quixote great.

I went out with one of the girls from an agency and on the dinner date she told me she was single. I basically told her I didn't believe her... too cute to be single. Anyways she admitted to having an on again off again boyfriend. So anyways there must have been a truth serum in her drink because (this happened to be a 20 year old girl... so a little on the young side even for me) she pretty much admitted she used the agency for dates (basically the opportunity to have a night out on the town with a gringo). And yes guys (gringos) would buy her stuff. So my point is a sweet little hottie like this would latch right on to someone nice like Quixote and then go back to her b/f after Quixote went back to the states.

So I suppose the moral of the story is don't be Mr. Nice guy. I wish more 25 year old guys would go down so we'd have a bigger database to draw conclusions from... but 18-25 year old girls seem less likely to pull crap on younger guys. They feel more comfortable with guys mid 30s on up.

And here we go... another side story would be a girl I knew that was (well probably still is) a stripper (AW). We weren't friends or anything but from what I could tell she was clean and just did it to take care of her kids. Anyways she told me a similar story. If a group of frat boys came in to the club she'd be a little intimidated... she felt more comfortable working her game on the older gentleman for private dances. Anyways take of that what you like.

I know the thought of being a "mark" might not sit well with some... but it doesn't make it any less true.

[sean126]

So true,  B-double C.

Back in my stud years I used to date alot of women and I knew alot of strippers.  They basically confirmed what you just said.  They would ALWAYS go to the older guys first for 2 reasons...they had more money and it could be taken from them easier.  They told me that most older guys would believe just about anything with a thong in their face.  Younger guys seemed to hold on to their money and couldn't be manipulated as easily they said.  They would tell me how they could spot marks, who the "nice" guys were, and who they could make come back and see them a few more times again.

[Quixote9]

Well, I am not and will not send money this time.... and if a girl tries to presures me or guilt me into doing so then I will point her to the door. 

I don't want too post a lot of intimate stuff about my current relationship,  but let me just say I am proceeding with guarded optimism rather than reckless romantic abandon.  I have been burnt before, and I know how trying to be a nice guy will always backfire on you.

I know women will see my "nice guy" attitude as a weakness they can take advantage of,  it has happened to me more times than I'd like to remember, usually I quickly kick them to the curb as soon as I see what they are really about, been taken for a ride twice though.  I have learned where to draw the line, I hope    Maybe if I acted more "Alpha Male" from the jump they wouldn't even try any BS to begin with though.

[no comment]

  I think 80-90% of the very attractive women on Jamie's site have boyfriends (depending on your definition of "boyfriend" that is), but if you ask them who else they are dating they will deny that they are seeing anyone but you.  I would avoid any woman who has been on Jamie's site for more than 2 months, as either something is wrong with her (crazy, boring, stupid, flaky, etc) or she is not really interested in meeting anyone (she is just a girl who likes to have gringos buy her dinner).  Look at the date on her profile that says "date profile last updated" and if it is more than a month old that means she hasn't been into the agency office in a month (probably because either she has a boyfriend or she isn't really interested in having a boyfriend).  Look for the girls who's profile is always getting updated constantly every few days... that means that they are actually saying yes to dates with Jamie's clients on a semi regular basis and not just saying yes when they are bored or can sneak out behind their boyfriends' backs.  Remember that good girls don't stay single for very long (more than a month is my guess) in Colombia, so if a girl has been up on Jamie's site for more than a month than she is either not really a good girl or not really single or both!!!

I get your point, some women seem to make a career out of dating, but two months is not a lot of time even for an attractive woman. She should be selective and demanding, just like us men. You've got to find out what's out there and that should take some time.
I haven't used Jamie's or any other agency, but I've seen a few of the women from II on LAI. You can do well for yourself without an agency with some Spanish speaking ability and preparation.
I hope your avatar photo doesn't mean you're auditioning for the vacancy in Siegfried & Roy's show. I heard that one of the tigers mauled one of the two. Like tigers, Latinas & women in general seem to be able to smell fear.

[GatoAzul]

I know women will see my "nice guy" attitude as a weakness they can take advantage of

Tell me about it!

[Quixote9]

Actually, the avatar photo is inspired by GatoAzul! If he can be the blue cat why can't I be the white tiger?  In fact I have taken to demanding all latin women refer to me now as "El Tigre Blanco" JEJEJE  They usually just laugh and tell me I am more like an albino tigre, but hey I take that!   

[Kiltboy1]

We have debated this for a long time but the truth is that women in general but especially Colombian women are wired different. You can look at a thousand profiles and they all will pretty much say the same. They want a man that respects them, treats them well and lets them have there independence. While this  may sound good, this is more in line with the AW. What a Colombiana wants is a man to be a cave man, take charge, make the decisions, call allllllllllllllllll the shots , screw her until she cannot move and then do it again, They want, like and expect to be dominated and I too was just like you Quioxte and the Mr. Nice guy got be burned badly. I learned quickly to dominate these women and for that, you will get a good relationship. Is a nice dream to think that  you will find a Latina that is sweet, cheerful, does not have a bad temper, sincere with you, ect but the reality is that the Colombian man dominates them and the situation and this is what they are accustomed to and realates to and answers too. Some here will disagree and say that This is harsh treatment, but it is what is the norm in Colombia and if you are going to be with a Colombiana, then you better learn this real quick before you get hosed, The Colombiana smells fear, weakness like the instincts of the Great White Shark and pounces on its prey before the guy knows what hits them. You might get lucky and meet a well adjusted lady like UT or a couple others I have seen, but the majority are with women that given the chance will take and take and ask and ask. Just get used to it , deal with it and you will find the correct women. Good report from Baq. I always enjoyed that city a lot and been there I think 3 times.

[Quixote9]

I think my prior experiences have changed me in several ways:

I don't just believe "Actions speak louder than words"  I believe her actions are the ONLY criteria in evaluating how she truly feels about me, Colombian women will say all kinds of things they aren't willing to back up with deeds.

Before I felt love should be unconditional, now I feel love should feel good and be rewarding (and those are conditions)

Before I felt you had to blindly trust someone if you were in love with them, well now I still believe love is given but I feel strongly that trust has to be earned.

Before I felt I had to prove my sincerity to the women, now I believe they must prove their sincerity to me.

Before I felt that I would move mountains to be with the one I loved, now I feel if trying to be with someone is as difficult as moving mountains it is probably because the other person is making things unnecessarily difficult.

Before I was not sure what exactly made me worthwhile enough that beautiful women would stay interested in me, now after spending time with lots of beautiful women and the kind of men they normally date I know most of them (the women and the men) are insincere selfish boring dimwits who are abusive/unfaithful and by comparison I am quite a catch.

Before I felt when I was with a woman that rocked my world, "I will never meet another woman like this ever again, I will do whatever it takes to hold on to her because a guy like me is never going to do any better than a girl like her"  now I realize there are so many women out there, most of them eager to please me, why the heck should I waste time on a girl making be deal with all her lies and BS when I would be better off and much happier alone.  I also notice if you appear ready and willing to walk away girls never chance giving you cause to actually leave.


As far as being the dominant alpha male type vs. Mr Nice guy.  I was raised to be polite and considerate of others needs.  It is hard to change that about myself, maybe I will maybe I wont, what I can do is make a decision to consider my own needs first and formost.  Like they say on airplanes, in the event of sudden loss of cabin pressure put your oxygen mask over your own face before attempting to help others.  This is just responsible adult behavior as you can't really look out for other people if you don't first look out after yourself.

And as for the TOO nice thing... well let me just say when I first booked this last vacation to Colombia my motives had almost nothing to do with meeting women and everything to do with putting a guy in a wheelchair for life.  But I eventually came to see that this guy had already cost me enough, and if I followed through on my disire for revenge he would probably end up costing me my freedom as well. Some times you just need to learn to cut your losses. Anger is caused by not having your own needs met, revenge isn't the cure, the solution is to do what you have to do to get those needs met and the anger will disappear. That is what I read in a book anyway    That being said I'll admit opening a can of Whoop@$$ on a deserving guy has proved immensely satisfying to me on 1 or 2 occasions in the past.

[Jamie]

Unfortunately Jamie learned that I was using one of his former employees/competitors services and felt very put off by my.. I dunno...  lack of loyalty, unethical behavior, or disrespecting the excellent work his agency had done for me in the past .. well I am not sure which exactly... but Jamie informed me that I can not expect help from him in the future.

Quixote9, I told you exactly why. This is the full text of my email to you:

“I am disappointed that you would be using a translator that you know from reading PL had lied and stolen from me and was fired for this. Even though you were no longer a current client I took the time to research the rumors I had heard about XXXXXX on your behalf. You in return are rewarding someone that has stolen from me. I do not associate with thieves or those that associate with thieves and you will not have my cooperation in any mater in the future.”

You replied to this email and this is the full text to my final reply:

“I have no ill feeling about you staying somewhere else or using an outside translator but the point is she stole from me and was fired by me. Of course she will deny this, but it is the truth. You using her services only supports someone who is a "bad" person who has personally deceived me and stole from me.”

The reality of this world is you will have people who will shun bad people and not support or associate with them and you will have people who could care less about the character of the person they are associating or supporting. My position of where I stand on the matter is very clear. I would never allow your ex-girlfriend who did you wrong back to the agency even though I could profit from her nor would I ever associate with the American who was not forthright with you and was part of this deception. 

Now I accept your position that you emailed to me that you were not aware of this, but I would think only based on your history with me you would have accepted my word but you chose not to. Nor did you take the time to do your own research:
http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=4558.0

[Quixote9]

Jamie is right, he did tell me Maria Jose had done some bad things to him, I just didn't want to repeat the accusations without knowing the details that go along with the accusations.  I directed people to search P-L for the details behind Maria Jose and Jamie's falling out, because Jamie mentioned that they had been discussed on the boards. I felt if I repeated the general accusations Jamie had made, it might negatively effect Maria Jose's bussiness, and I wasn't prepared to do that without more details.

This is what I know (or at least think I know) and if this somehow violates PL rules I apologize in advance, please just delete this post : Someone stole Jamie's database with the email addresses of all his girls, I had read that on P-L before coming back to Colombia.  I know Jamie sent out a mass email to all the women using his agency to not respond to any anonymous emails that did not come directly from International Introductions.  I read this negatively impacted the trip of a client of International Introductions who had legitimately paid for those email adresses, as he was attempting to contact these women on his own and use Maria Jose as his translator.  I read Maria Jose denial on PL that she had any involvement with stealing this data base, and that it was known to Jamie who had actually stolen it.  When I read this I had already agreed to use Maria Jose when I came back, and had been planing on buying email addresses from Jamie just like this other guy had done.  Why? Because frankly... Jamie's chicas are way more attractive that the ones Maria Jose emailed me photos of. I felt the best course of action was to meet these girls in person through International Introductions, so I would not be confused with anyone making use of a stolen database of email addresses.  I suspected that informing Jamie I was planning on using an outside translator after I finished using his services might not be in my best interests, but I felt I had every right to keep this information to myself.

About 24 hours after I started using Maria Jose as my translator, I learned Jamie had sent out another mass email informing the women using his agency not to respond to any emails that were pretending to be from International Introductions but were sent from yahoo and hotmail addresses and not sent from his email international Introduction email address.  I suspected the timing might indicate he had already found out I was using Maria Jose, but as I was not attempting to contact women via email and was only continuing to date 2 girls I had met through Jamie who already knew me well, I felt that this mass email would not have any negative impact on my trip and felt Jamie had every right to send it out if he felt I was attempting to make use of stolen information.  I did ask Maria Jose directly about who had stolen Jamie's data base and she told me who had done it and how they tried to sell it for 4 thousand COP.  I asked if she was the one who bought it, and she told me that no she had not and that who ever actually did buy it for that price wasn't very bright because Colombian girls give up their email address very easily, that she didn't have to go out looking to find girls because most of the time girls knew she is a matchmaker and would  ask her to be signed up.

Two days latter I got an email from Jamie, here is what it said:
"I am disappointed that you would be using a translator that you know from reading PL had lied and stolen
from me and was fired for this.  Even though you were no longer a current client I took the time to research the rumors I had heard about Jennifer on your behalf. You in return are rewarding someone that has stolen from me. I do not associate with thieves or those that associate with thieves and you will not have my cooperation in
any mater in the future."

I responded:
"I want to apologize if I have indavertantly done anything unethical, because I believe you have always behaved in and ethical and profesional way in your dealings with me.  I know you provide great
introductions, but I do not like staying in Salgar, so after I stopped meeting new girls I wanted to move
into the city.  I needed an outside translator if I am not staying in your lodging, and using Maria was in no way meant as a slight against you or your service.
Maria gets lots of great reviews and I have not read anywhere that Maria Jose stole from you, I know someone stole your info and was using it to contact your girls but that is all I know.  She denied it was her on PL and no one posted anything after that indicating she is the one who did it, so I assumed it was not her.  I am sorry if you feel betrayed by my using an outside translator, I can assure you I am not giving herthe phone numbers or contact info of any of the girls I met except the two I continued to date after leaving your lodging. Since one of the two girls hates Maria Jose, I doubt Maria will try use her contact info in the future.  I hope there are not hard feelings about this, as I have nothing but respect for you."

He replied back:
"I have no ill feeling about you staying somewhere else or using an outside translator but the point is she stole from me and was fired by me. Of course she will deny this, but it is the truth. You using her services only supports someone who is a "bad" person who has personally deceived me and stole from me."

I was no longer using Maria Jose but I had already paid her a partial advance of her next time working on my behalf because she could not make change for the large bills I was using to pay her.  I emailed her and asked her what Jamie was talking about. Here is what she wrote to me:
"He thinks I stole a client from him because ppl that work for him made him believe so. Later during the year in september. Some woman he hire stole all of the women´s information and sold it, to some other agency in BQA. Since he has no idea who those ppl are and I am gettign popular in reviews he wants to accuse me of that. That is it."


Well, I dont think anyone OWNS their clients so they cant actually be stolen. You keep clients thru doing such a good job for them they have no reason to leave.  If this was all Jamie felt she had stolen, it was a big deal over nothing.  I found myself very dubious that Jamie would make these kind of aligations about theft, and be refering only to clients... I think there is more to it than that.  But what he feels she stole from him I dont know... an idea for her own bussiness, clients, girls from Jamie's agency... he could be talking about almost anything and I would have to know what that was before deciding if she actually had done something wrong.  But I felt Jamie had already expressed he wanted nothing more to do with me, no sense in me pressing Maria Jose on the matter and perhaps damaging my relationship with her as well.  She assisted me one more day and we all went to the circus, I didn't have exact change to pay her the balance I owed her, but she told me I could just leave it under her name at the front desk of the hotel she had arranged for me.  That was the last time I met with Maria Jose, but she continued to check up on me and ask how I was doing and give me advice for the rest of my trip.  I really apreciated that just because I was no longer paying to use her services she still watched out for me.  I did see Jamie one more time before I left BAQ,  his cab driver knew my girlfriend and stopped to say hello and talk to her, Jamie seemed to be intensionally ignoring that he saw me standing right there.  I felt my apology had fallen on deaf ears, and decided their was no point in trying to fix things with him.

[Dan]

Jamie is right, he did tell me Maria Jose had done some bad things to him, I just didn't want to repeat the accusations without knowing the details that go along with the accusations.  I directed people to search P-L for the details behind Maria Jose and Jamie's falling out, because Jamie mentioned that they had been discussed on the boards. I felt if I repeated the general accusations Jamie had made, it might negatively effect Maria Jose's bussiness, and I wasn't prepared to do that without more details.

This is what I know (or at least think I know) and if this somehow violates PL rules I apologize in advance, please just delete this post : Someone stole Jamie's database with the email addresses of all his girls, I had read that on P-L before coming back to Colombia.  I know Jamie sent out a mass email to all the women using his agency to not respond to any anonymous emails that did not come directly from International Introductions.  I read this negatively impacted the trip of a client of International Introductions who had legitimately paid for those email adresses, as he was attempting to contact these women on his own and use Maria Jose as his translator.  I read Maria Jose denial on PL that she had any involvement with stealing this data base, and that it was known to Jamie who had actually stolen it.  When I read this I had already agreed to use Maria Jose when I came back, and had been planing on buying email addresses from Jamie just like this other guy had done.  Why? Because frankly... Jamie's chicas are way more attractive that the ones Maria Jose emailed me photos of. I felt the best course of action was to meet these girls in person through International Introductions, so I would not be confused with anyone making use of a stolen database of email addresses.  I suspected that informing Jamie I was planning on using an outside translator after I finished using his services might not be in my best interests, but I felt I had every right to keep this information to myself.

About 24 hours after I started using Maria Jose as my translator, I learned Jamie had sent out another mass email informing the women using his agency not to respond to any emails that were pretending to be from International Introductions but were sent from yahoo and hotmail addresses and not sent from his email international Introduction email address.  I suspected the timing might indicate he had already found out I was using Maria Jose, but as I was not attempting to contact women via email and was only continuing to date 2 girls I had met through Jamie who already knew me well, I felt that this mass email would not have any negative impact on my trip and felt Jamie had every right to send it out if he felt I was attempting to make use of stolen information.  I did ask Maria Jose directly about who had stolen Jamie's data base and she told me who had done it and how they tried to sell it for 4 thousand COP.  I asked if she was the one who bought it, and she told me that no she had not and that who ever actually did buy it for that price wasn't very bright because Colombian girls give up their email address very easily, that she didn't have to go out looking to find girls because most of the time girls knew she is a matchmaker and would  ask her to be signed up.

Two days latter I got an email from Jamie, here is what it said:
"I am disappointed that you would be using a translator that you know from reading PL had lied and stolen
from me and was fired for this.  Even though you were no longer a current client I took the time to research the rumors I had heard about Jennifer on your behalf. You in return are rewarding someone that has stolen from me. I do not associate with thieves or those that associate with thieves and you will not have my cooperation in
any mater in the future."

I responded:
"I want to apologize if I have indavertantly done anything unethical, because I believe you have always behaved in and ethical and profesional way in your dealings with me.  I know you provide great
introductions, but I do not like staying in Salgar, so after I stopped meeting new girls I wanted to move
into the city.  I needed an outside translator if I am not staying in your lodging, and using Maria was in no way meant as a slight against you or your service.
Maria gets lots of great reviews and I have not read anywhere that Maria Jose stole from you, I know someone stole your info and was using it to contact your girls but that is all I know.  She denied it was her on PL and no one posted anything after that indicating she is the one who did it, so I assumed it was not her.  I am sorry if you feel betrayed by my using an outside translator, I can assure you I am not giving herthe phone numbers or contact info of any of the girls I met except the two I continued to date after leaving your lodging. Since one of the two girls hates Maria Jose, I doubt Maria will try use her contact info in the future.  I hope there are not hard feelings about this, as I have nothing but respect for you."

He replied back:
"I have no ill feeling about you staying somewhere else or using an outside translator but the point is she stole from me and was fired by me. Of course she will deny this, but it is the truth. You using her services only supports someone who is a "bad" person who has personally deceived me and stole from me."

I was no longer using Maria Jose but I had already paid her a partial advance of her next time working on my behalf because she could not make change for the large bills I was using to pay her.  I emailed her and asked her what Jamie was talking about. Here is what she wrote to me:
"He thinks I stole a client from him because ppl that work for him made him believe so. Later during the year in september. Some woman he hire stole all of the women´s information and sold it, to some other agency in BQA. Since he has no idea who those ppl are and I am gettign popular in reviews he wants to accuse me of that. That is it."


Well, I dont think anyone OWNS their clients so they cant actually be stolen. You keep clients thru doing such a good job for them they have no reason to leave.  If this was all Jamie felt she had stolen, it was a big deal over nothing.  I found myself very dubious that Jamie would make these kind of aligations about theft, and be refering only to clients... I think there is more to it than that.  But what he feels she stole from him I dont know... an idea for her own bussiness, clients, girls from Jamie's agency... he could be talking about almost anything and I would have to know what that was before deciding if she actually had done something wrong.  But I felt Jamie had already expressed he wanted nothing more to do with me, no sense in me pressing Maria Jose on the matter and perhaps damaging my relationship with her as well.  She assisted me one more day and we all went to the circus, I didn't have exact change to pay her the balance I owed her, but she told me I could just leave it under her name at the front desk of the hotel she had arranged for me.  That was the last time I met with Maria Jose, but she continued to check up on me and ask how I was doing and give me advice for the rest of my trip.  I really apreciated that just because I was no longer paying to use her services she still watched out for me.  I did see Jamie one more time before I left BAQ,  his cab driver knew my girlfriend and stopped to say hello and talk to her, Jamie seemed to be intensionally ignoring that he saw me standing right there.  I felt my apology had fallen on deaf ears, and decided their was no point in trying to fix things with him.

>>if this somehow violates PL rules I apologize in advance, please just delete this post<<

Quixote,

Yours is an excellent first-hand account of your experiences - and myself, and the readers of PL appreciate it very much. There are no 'violations' of any sort on your part.

When someone has something bad to say about a service provider, there are (predictably) fireworks from both sides - those who support (or are maybe friends) with that provider, and those who would agree with you and feel the need to 'pile on' - and the conflagration ensues.

Soooooo . . . what we are seeing here is a little change and it is simply to keep the TR's clear of the flames and be respectful of the TR author.

Quixote - you should feel free to post your experiences honestly - just as you have been doing. If someone objects to your posts - they are free to take it up with you either off-board (through PM's or email) - or they may lodge a dispute separately from your TR. In any case, the TR will be allowed to continue without disruption and without either cheering or jeering from the sidelines.

- Dan

[Jamie]

Quixote9 It does not look like you read the link I provided. This has nothing to do with stolen data bases, or your right to use who you like or stealing clients as you say. The link provides you the facts. The point is I went out of my way to help you on a personal matter beyond the scope of my duties. When it was revealed to you that the person you were paying money to had stolen from me you decided to ask [them] if this is so and of course [their] answer was no and that is as far as you took it.

In the past you posted on here how an American had betrayed you and that you were disappointed by the lack of honest and trustworthy people in Colombia and then you reward someone who was untrustworthy and dishonest with me. You perpetuate by rewarding the very actions that you fell victim to. Someone does you wrong and then you do me wrong by openly disregarding the information that you had on this forum. You may not have seen all the info but you saw enough to know where I stood. The wrong is not allowing the natural progression of punishment to take place. This has nothing to do with business it has to do with the principle of doing what is right and good people sticking together. The criminal is no threat to me. Life will provide her just due, but part of that just due is good people taking the right actions not to associate or reward such people. Thieves are not criminals for a day it is who they are and when the opportunity arises again they will become thieves again. I know for many people as long as they don’t steal from you it is irrelevant who they may steal from, but to me it is relevant.

I am hopeful you found someone special using our services and I wish you the best, but my disappointment in your actions stand. You also knew what my position was and why yet you did not properly convey that in your first post.

[Edited to remove incendiary name-calling]

[Researcher]

I am not TOO nice, I am only trying to fair and honest.

   Sorry but you are too nice Quixote.People treat you like a door mat and you make excuses for them. There is nothing wrong with being fair and honest or even nice but at the end of the day you have to take care of yourself.It sounds like you have learned alot since going to Colombia but old habits die hard.At least you haven't reached the point where you are ready to blame all the women of Colombia for your mistakes.


  Researcher

[Pivery]

Quixote9,

Very detailed and informative trip report. I'm truly happy that you have a woman in your life again. Hopefully she is everything
you are looking for and you can really concentrate on building a happy and strong relationship.

Pivery