The People's Republic of Love

[Marshall K]

We decided to stick around Zhanjiang instead of traveling so that we could have more quality time.  It gives me a chance to get a closer to Tody, Yali's 10 year old son and to enjoy the nice place she lives in.  If anyone has ever dated a single mom with a son, you know that there can be some pretty serious jealousy issues.  Tody was no exception, and from my first visit I have always tried to be sensitive to this.  At first he was pretty sure that I was stealing his mother, but I've always allowed them plenty of space to be together without me and this has paid off tremendously.  He now is totally comfortable with me and we get along great.  He  is a great kid, respectful, smart, cute, and works hard in school.  I'm proud of him and look forward to helping to raise my new son.
Last night we went out with my new American friend and his wife.  There is an old ship that has been converted to a restaurant and we had a beer on the deck and watched the Independence Day fireworks over the water.  Just a very nice evening all around.  He has had the uncomfortable situation of having single, English speaking women come up to him on the streets here who are looking for an American husband.  Yesterday a lady hit on him while he was waiting for his wife who was in the bank.  She didn't take too kindly to this and I know that Yali wouldn't either.  Single guys take note, though.  There are plenty of ladies here who would love to meet you.  I showed him this website, and I hope he starts participating because he would be a good resource for you.  You reading this, Michael?
Today Yali and I went to the real beach.  It's about a half hour taxi ride from here.  I've gotten used to riding around in the city here, because the traffic pretty much keeps the real Kamikaze drivers bunched up, but when you get out on the highway it becomes Death Race 2008.  You just surrender to the cosmos and place yourself in God's hands.  On a four lane highway, for some reason, the slow vehicles seem to use the inside lane.  There are also bicycles, motorcycles, 3 wheeled conveyances and slow farm vehicles on the right.  Or left.  Or right down the center line.  Or swerving around.  I know it's a stereotype joke in our country that Asians are bad drivers, but IT'S TRUE!  Our driver coming back from the beach was skillful, fast and furious, and I don't ever want to be in his cab again.  He did a masterful job of avoiding each klutz by mere inches and probably honked his horn every hundred feet or so.  He passed on the left, right and center.  He zipped between buses and scooters at top speed, trusting Buddha to prevent the other idiots from swerving (which they do totally at random) into us.  I'm sure that they have to replace their horns 2 or 3 times for every brake job they get.
I hadn't been to a Chinese beach resort before, but it was a lot what I expected since it was a holiday.  Lots of people, of course, but a nice beach and pretty decent surf.  You walk down a little street with lots of tourist shops and resaurants.  We rented a locker, changed into bathing suits and went on down to the water.  There was a huge cluster of umbrellas and beach chairs that you could rent for 300 RMB which was totally outrageous since you could get a room at the nice hotel for 250.  You could rent jet skis, and ATV's.  There were horse rides and even a Bactrian camel you could ride.  Most people were just having fun in the water, though.  I did a little body surfing and totally enjoyed myself.  We strolled away from the crowd and the beach went on as far as you could see.  We had to pay 15 RMB to get into the "park" and I think you are supposed to stay in the general mob area, but nobody hassled us so we walked on.  I will definitely come back and stay at the hotel in the future since this is a pretty damn nice tropical beach resort, and if you were there during an off time you would have the whole place to yourself.
We had a great lunch of fried fish and the best crab I have had outside of Oregon.  I'm hungry now and it's time for dinner, so I'm out of here.

[Jeff S]

Great update Marshall - and thanks.

I married a divorced Mom but she had a daughter who'd never known her father - at least didn't remember him. It didn't take long for her to start calling me daddy. She was a typical Asian kid too, respectful, smart, cute and hard-working. It was the entirely opposite situation than some of my friends who married Latinas with kids experienced. No need to elaborate.

My driver in China was a lot like yours, Mario Andretti zipping in and out of traffic, everything from Porsches to handcarts, on the highway. I'm used to the LA freeways so wasn't completely terrified, but did prefer not to look forward most of the time, instead keeping myself distracted with the passing scenery.

Yes, you get plenty of warm smiles and friendly conversations from women in China as a round-eye male. I tend to agree - a younger guy just traveling around and exploring there would have plenty of opportunities to meet women.

- Jeff

[Dave H]

Hilarious reviews. Everyone who gave it a 1 star had the ribs and everyone who gave it a 5 star had the conch. Hmmmm - what do you think I should order ribs or conch??

Hey Jeff,

To heck with the 5 star conch! I think we should both go for the ribs and try to see if we can give them a 1.5.

Dave

[Dave H]

On the bright side...at least SpongeBob has not been  effected by the mellamine contamination in China or has he? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxymwN7nYQQ&feature=related

[Bob_S]

Conch is way different than sea slug and I like them both. Every time I'm in Florida I eat all the conch chowder I can find - drizzled with a little sherry... WOW.

Scungilli - especially good as cevechi - Moto bene!

Conch chowder sounds pretty good.  The way I had it was boiled in the shell.  You had to use a toothpick to fish it out of its shell and chow down on it whole.  It's one of those things that tastes far better than it looks!

English speaking women come up to him on the streets here who are looking for an American husband.  Yesterday a lady hit on him while he was waiting for his wife who was in the bank.  She didn't take too kindly to this and I know that Yali wouldn't either.  Single guys take note, though.  There are plenty of ladies here who would love to meet you.

Let's be fair.  You don't know how many are husband hunting and which ones are just looking for English practice.  And then there are the English leaches, girls who glom on to you because it is cool to have a foreign bf but would never think of actually marrying a foreigner.  The attention is cool either way, but tread carefully till you know their intentions. 

I showed him this website, and I hope he starts participating because he would be a good resource for you.

I dunno.  The Asian board is mostly civil, but if he accidentally strays over to the Latin board, he may delete the link!    Noobies should stay clear of the Latin flame wars.

I'm sure that they have to replace their horns 2 or 3 times for every brake job they get.

We were there for a package tour some years back and had the same experience with the tour bus driver.  What is it with Chinese drivers?  (How can you listen to Bill Handel when you're leaning on your horn all the time?)

[Dave H]

I dunno.  The Asian board is mostly civil, but if he accidentally strays over to the Latin board, he may delete the link!    Noobies should stay clear of the Latin flame wars.
 

Hey Bob,

Very true! That is the way the Latin Board has always been! I usually managed to avoid the Latin Board for 8 years or so. Now it is hard since I am using the "Show unread posts since last visit" tab and also read the LB headlines! They are like reading tabloid headlines in the supermarket checkout line! You just have to take a peek! Whatever one does post on the LB, he must never mention the word 'virgin' or face certain censure and anger from most LB members!  On the Asian Board 'virginity' is considered a relevant topic of discussion...while I don't think it ever was on the LB.

Dave

[Ray]

Virgin!

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Virgin!

[Bear]

Dave I agree!  I've tried to get discussions going on the stupidity of trying to find a wife at a Bar and the assumption that married/sex life will be bad if you haven't tested enjoyed sex first or if the rest of the world doesn't think she's both hot looking and good in bed?  Since every girl I've slept with had different likes/dislikes in sex I can't see how they think it wouldn't be enjoyable to experiment?  MOF, the R.P government taught in their health course we took that both partners should be acceptable to experimenting!!!  The ignorance of thinking that your chances of a successful marriage is reduced unless she's slept with a half a doesn't jerks just blows me away.  To me its seems they don't know how to prioritize the things that make marriages work or understand that if you play around now the chances of playing around later are much higher but I guess you found that out the hard way.

When I divorced my "ex" I had long given up the thought that I'd know what it was like to have a virgin.  But with all of the girls I was writting before I met Honey only 2 admitted they had been sexually active maybe 2 others but they clearly acted ashamed, cheated on, raped or abused.  The clear majority are/were virgins and intended to stay that way until marriage.  And when you a wife whose parents told her "just do what he wants", how can they think married life will fail with that sort of person as a mate or that she won't satisfy them or others won't consider her to be "hot".  Why would they want someones else's "interference" in their marriage anyway?! 

Thew are blowing it bigtime.  Without being explicit I can tell you my wife considers it "bad" if I'm not satisfied and without making a big deal out of it she feels morally satisfied that she was "good girl" by waiting for her husband and satisfying me.
How could I do any better?  Is it better to have someone eager to please you or someone who looks hot for others and has pleased others sexually?  I thought that would be a no-brainer.

The Bear Family

[Dave H]

Hey Ray,

Nobody on the Asian Board seemed to get upset with the word "Virgin." Remember when the word "Fart" used to piss off a couple of former AB posters!

Dave

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

Fart!

[Ray]

Remember when the word "Fart" used to piss off a couple of former AB posters!

LOL! Hi Tim, how have you been doing? 

[Dave H]

LOL! Hi Tim, how have you been doing? 

That's a 'blast' from the past!

[Dave H]

Hey Bear,

I agree that the odds are stacked against a guy seeking a good wife in a bar! Sure, we all have heard of the rare success story. I don't think that most guys have the desire or patience it takes to date and marry a virgin...the chaperons and 'no try before you buy' policy, etc. I certainly have no complaints, even in the bedroom!!! Our little 'Asian secret.'  In fact my Latina ex-wife was a virgin  when we married and I know others who also were...so they do exist if you know where to look. There are many nice women out there who are not virgins. Some of whom were naive and tricked by men they loved, who didn't really love them. While virginity wasn't a requirement for me, I am very happy I don't have to deal with some loser's baggage!

Dave

[Marshall K]

I looked to China for a wife because I was impressed with their traditional values of family, loyalty and harmony.  I wasn't sure what to expect when I met Yali, but I wasn't going to try to get her into bed first thing.  I wanted a life partner first and formost.  She was a virgin when she married her first husband, and even though they had a kid, he did nothing to try to satisfy her.  We have achieved full satisfaction since then---frequently.  I love the Asian secret.
Matt is making the right decision by respecting his fiancee's values, and I have no doubt that he will also benefit from this by having a loyal loving wife for the rest of their lives.
If you're looking for a quick poke and herpes, a bar girl is the way to go.  If you want a good wife and life partner, it takes more work and patience.  The guys that go after the bar girls are just bar boys anyway, and probably wouldn't make good husbands either.

[Marshall K]

It's been a pretty uneventful couple of days which is just fine.  We have been having heavy warm rain which I like since rain in Oregon is cold.  Tomorrow we go to Guangzhou and I meet with the consulate on Monday to discuss our case.  I don't hold a lot of hope, but at least I can talk to a face.  I fly out Tuesday and it will be a few months before I can return.
Besides missing Yali, I will also be missing the food, even the chicken feet.  We had a great meal tonight at "Chairman Mao's" which specializes in Hunan food.  Great dumplings, pork and pepper duck, served in a mini wok.  Oh and nice braised chicken feet.  Yesterday I had the best noodles I've had in China at a little Muslim cafe.  Spicy lamb and hand made noodles.  They roll out the dough by hand, then stretch it out and roll some more.  Somehow the dough begins to form long round strands.  Don't ask me how, it's some kind of magic I guess, but they are the perfect texture and flavor.  And about 2 bucks a bowl.
Speaking of Mao, they don't teach him in school any more.  No little red book, they just teach that he is the father of the People's Republic.  They really don't want that commie propaganda messing with their capitalism.  Probably a good idea, even though their government messes up things pretty good without all that dogma.  The milk fiasco is a good example.  Nobody will touch milk here.  They were trying to give it away at Wal Mart the other day and they got very few takers.  For a Chinese to not accept something for free says a lot.  By allowing corrupt officials to turn a blind eye to bad milk, pharmaceuticals, lead toys, etc. they gravely damage overseas trade in these items.  I don't think that other countries will readily buy produce or other food products from China for a long time.
People are pretty pissed at the government right now.  A lot of people aren't doing that well right now.  There has been a lot of bad weather for the farmers, the earthquake, and our economic meltdown is definitely going to have an effect on manufacturing here.  They look at the fat cat, lazy, corrupt bums in government and there is a lot of resentment.  The people have little recourse, they can't vote the bums out so they just grumble among themselves and online.  Occaisionally there are riots and sometimes something might happen as a result, but mostly it's just business as usual.
I will still miss it, though.  It's an exciting, vibrant place unlike anywhere I have ever been.  I've never seen such a hard working nation, and in spite of its problems, I might still live here. 

[Jeff S]

It really is an amazing place, and less socialistic than the US in many ways.  I, also am amazed at how vibrant and optimistic China is. No one grumbles about fairness.

They need to grow up about following laws and rules, though, like heath codes, manufacturing quality procedures and so on. The biggest barrier is some of their ancient principles that seem to pervade almost everything, like the Thirty Six Stratagems and Sun Soo's The Art of War - much is based on deception to get the upper hand. Those principles may have served well in the lawless feudal times, but in modern society they're a major handicap. Just like the crazy traffic we were discussing earlier, laws, rules and procedures are taken as mere suggestions, not the way things are supposed to be. That's one of the major cultural things that will take a long while to get over, if ever.

Well, sorry to hear of your woes and good luck getting things straightened out.

- Jeff

[jm21-2]

Marshall: Thanks for your great trip reports and updates. I am really interested in how your wife likes life in the Great Northwest once you get through all that red tape. Hope you'll post a little on that someday. I know many guys here have said that a good wife will follow you anywhere, and I'm sure they're right, but whenever I mention the temperatures up here to girls from the warmer climes the reaction has been..eh...less than positive, haha. ("it's that cold there in summer? That's like a very cold winter here...wow..."). And I know a ton of out-of-staters who hate the weather here...

Sea slugs = sea cucumbers? I hear they're quite good, sort of taste like bacon, but never tried them.

The Cunning Asians: I've heard SE Asian countries generally have the same problems with "cunning" business practices. I was looking into what it would cost to have a boat hull built in SE Asia (for future reference) and the consensus was basically to not believe the prices any SE Asian business or trust them to do their job unless they were run by an American. Lots of horror stories about paying for a boat and then being conned out of more money when it was partway completed in order to get it finished, or using substandard parts, or a product that looked great on the outside but had many hidden defects, etc. It seems like it isn't just China that has the problem, though you would know far better than I.

[Dave H]

Hey Marshall,

Thanks for the great trip report and insight on China!

Dave

[Dave H]

My wife was amazed yesterday when she saw large packages of chicken feet in the meat department at a local Winn Dixie Supermarket. She didn't think people ate them in the US...then I showed her the pickled pigs feet...next the beef pizzle. This package was only $6.66. 

Dave

[Marshall K]

Our trip to Guangzhou was interesting.  We booked beds on the sleeper bus, and left the day before I was to meet the Consulate.  We got on at 8:15 am and got bunks in the front.  We were happy with this since it was the end of the holiday week and travel can be a pain.  The bus filled up and they just kept putting people in, mostly college students.  They filled both aisles with about 40 more unfortunates who got to sit on the floor, knee to back for what turned out to be a seven hour trip.  There was no way to get to the restroom, but fortunately the bus made two stops on the way.  The bus rest stations were teeming with mostly college students.  I thought the one child policy was going to put a dent in this!
We arrived in Guangzhou in pouring rain and my bag got wet in the luggage compartment of the bus, but the stuff inside wasn't too bad.  We negotiated our way around and through the masses, through a maze like department store and found ourselves in a place where we could catch a cab.  The driver tried to screw us on the fare saying that it costs more on a rainy day, but had to back off when Yali asked for a receipt.
We stayed next to the consulate in a shared apartment provided for visa petitioners.  It's a pretty good deal, only 125 RMB.  We were starving and had a great dinner since we only had a melamine ice cream bar for lunch.
I didn't have a lot of hope for my meeting with the consulate, and they didn't disappoint.  I was herded into a very secure large room with a bunch of other unfortunates, Americans and Chinese.  We took numbers and started to compare horror stories.  There were about a dozen or so English speaking victims who wanted to know WTF went wrong with their spouses' interviews as well as countless Chinese.  We all had the same denial form letter that said that we didn't have bona fide relationships.  There was a Chinese-American man whose wife is Chinese.  They have been living in the States and have a little girl, who was born in the US.  They came to China to visit relatives, and she had to renew her Visa and WAS DENIED!  There were people just like me who were being screwed, too.  We agreed that there seemed to be a policy of blanket denials going on.  We just happened to be in China, so we could get to the Consulate. I wonder how many denials have been happening where the spouse is in the US?  As numbers were called each person got to go talk to someone behind bullet proof glass.  One guy was screaming at the clerk, and I am sure that he was flagged as a permanent denial forever and ever.  I was polite and asked why it was determined that my wife and I had no relationship.  I was completely stonewalled.  They would tell me nothing.  They told everyone the same story:  our cases were closed and sent back to the US.  All they had to do was pull it up on the computer!
I would have put the whole effort down as a waste of time, except from the information my fellow Americans and I got to share.  I felt very lucky that I am using the Chinese agency since we were able to get an interview much much quicker than the others.  Coincidentally, on arriving home, I shared the airport shuttle with a lady whose daughter works for the GAO.  She is on her way to China to investigate the consulates there.  There apparently is some really bad craziness going on there right now, and we are unlucky enough to be caught up in it.
I emailed my attorney.  We may appeal, but will continue with the I 130 process.  I'm thinking it may be a good idea to wait to interview after we get a new president and they have a big shake up.  I may just say "screw it" and join my friend Mike in Zhanjiang.  I am very frustrated with my country right now, that they would treat Americans and their spouses this way.  You can go get a Las Vegas wedding to just any old tart, but can't get a woman you love deeply and have an incredible relationship with into your country.
Needless to say, we got the hell out of that part of town as fast as we could.  We headed out to the airport area and that nice neighborhood.  Taxis didn't want to go there since it was close to quitting time.  Guangzhou taxi drivers are dicks!  We found a private car guy and after a good grilling we decided he was legit, and he took us.  He was a great driver and a nice guy.  We'll call him next time we need a ride. 
We had some good lovin in the hotel and went to see our new friends at their cafe.  We had a nice visit and some nuclear food which I like, but causes Yali great distress.  Their little girl really is a special kid.  She is very cute, bright and precocious. Eight years old, in the fourth grade and is president of her class.  She really likes Yali, her new "big sister".
We had a nice last night, only sleeping about four hours and had a nice farewell at the airport.  I hope the next time we see each other it will be her coming here, but if not, I'll probably try to get back in February or March. 

[Bear]

Did I miss something?  You're saying that the American Consulate in China is blanket denying Visas to married people!  That is tough.  Have you called your congressman?  When I called mine my wife got her papers completed that day and was on a plane in a week.

The Bear Family

[Jeff S]

Great pics Marshall, Thanks! Yali and her son are both adorable. You guys look great together.

[Dave H]

Hi Marshall,

Great pics! I'm sorry to hear about all the BS you and Yali are going through with the US Consulate! I hope some of those government pencil pushers' heads role!

Dave

[leather neck]

Hey Marshall,

Glad you had a great time with your wife and son, so unfortunate there was this the heavy hard of the gov't red tape you had to deal with.

From what I read on www.candleforlove, there are many stories of men that have experienced the same results as you, there is a really high rate of denials from the consulant in China. Then I got an email from Cherryblossoms, and they confirmed the rate of denials to be in the 90% +/- range. Those are incredible numbers coming from one sector.

All is not lost just yet, you still have the appeal process, that's what lawyers are for.

Look forward to talking with you soon.

Leatherneck

[troyha]

On the subject of whether you can find a suitable girl in a bar, I live in Subic which has tons of bars.  At least half of the couples I know, they met during a paid transaction and they appear to be just as happy as the couples who met elsewhere.  The common element of all bar girls is that they are poor and know what a man wants in bed.  Of course, many non bar girls also know what a man wants in bed.

In my humble opinion, the paid sex is only a minor consideration.  Someone can work at SM Mall, 60 hours a week and earn 5,000 to 6,000 pesos.  If a bar girl is hot and seductive, she can earn this is a week.  Some bar girls forget the value of money and that is a major problem.  As much partying as I have done, I would be a hypocrite to criticize someone else.  I do what I do for pleasure, she does it out of economic necessity and to meet a foreign man.