Another one abandons fiancée

[markanthony7]

Well there is an old saying that says "you never really know a person until you live with them" very recently I had one client bring a young lady from our agency on a fiance visa but everyone knew this guy was difficult to communicate with, he was socially inept and had an extremely bad temper, eventually the young woman had to leave and return under duress, in his mind set he feels as though she abandoned him and he is going around and telling everyone these horror stories, when he is the one that is actually a fault but most of us that have been associated with his characther and personality realize and know that he was the unreasonable one that lacked discretion in this issue and caused the dilemma or negative situation, he was the cause of the problem but he projected the blame on her. Basically what I am saying is there is always two sides to every story no matter how convincing they may sound when presenting his side of a case, every person must have introspection when having a relationship with someone else, (the ability to do a self examination) Some of these guys I meet you can see why they have problems finding someone to have a relationship with in America it is not the standard of women we have in America, its their personality and characther that needs to be adjusted and going abroad is not the answer for a person with these types of personal issues

2. Also it is note worthy and important to remember that the fiance Visa process is only a temporary living and dating process to determine if two consenting adults that have a mutual interest in each other should make the relationship a permanent one, in other words its just a dry run

[Ray]

Ray, is that waiver a special form, or is it just checking the box on the I-751?

Check a box on the I-751...

[Ray]

Also it is note worthy and important to remember that the fiance Visa process is only a temporary living and dating process to determine if two consenting adults that have a mutual interest in each other should make the relationship a permanent one, in other words its just a dry run

Mark, that seems to be a common misconception, but the purpose of a fiancée visa IS NOT just a dry run to find out if you have a mutual interest in each other.

The purpose of the fiancée visa is to allow two already committed adults to marry in the U.S.

If you don't even know whether or not you have a mutual interest in each other, then you have absolutely no business filing for a fiancée visa IMHO. I suggest that you take the time to get to know each other BEFORE you file, not after she is already here!

Though there are some advantages to having a little more time together before the final commitment, that is not the intended purpose of the law. If for some reason one or both parties decide to call off the marriage during the 90-day period allowed then that is O.K., but to look at it as "just a dry run" is not very smart IMO.

There are no guarantees and if you think you are going to be able to learn all about a person in a couple of months of living together, then you are only fooling yourself. Marriage is often full of surprises even many years after you have been living together as man and wife.

Ray

[william3rd]

Ray is right.

Part of that "dry run" mentality is why there are requirements for waivers for 2 in 24 months and more than 2 lifetime fiancee visas.

Fiancee visas were not intended for use in the way that modern technology has opened for potential partners.

Use some restraint or the door will close.

[sean126]

Some of these guys I meet you can see why they have problems finding someone to have a relationship with in America it is not the standard of women we have in America, its their personality and characther that needs to be adjusted and going abroad is not the answer for a person with these types of personal issues

That is probably the number one reason for many men's failures in relationships found in other countries.  Wether they be a jerk or a doormat....they think a different country is the answer to their faults.



on the dry run comment....I agree with both Mark and Ray.  It should be used for an already committed couple....however, a little more time never hurt anyone...especially for the woman.  I personally know of and read about how some women are all fired up about moving to another country with the man they love and then after about a month in the different country....reality sets in and they can't handle it and they want to go back. 

[markanthony7]

Well there are many variables that contribute to these various issues but I feel the one that is most prevalent is "culture shock" , helping the young lady go through the adjustment and transition period of leaving her familiar surroundings and culture to assimilate to ours, some times people can be compatable before she arrives but the change of environment for her can be so drastic the couple think that the problem is with each other and the relationship but issue is with the inability for her to immediately assimilate with her new cultural environment

[Jeff S]

I think most foreign brides don't find life in America as they imagined it. The only two I know fairly well (my wife and Tess Brittain,) would much rather have returned home to their familiar surroundings, especially after the newness wore off. Maybe it's a case of overhyping of America - people around the world think life is easy here and the streets are paved with gold. After a while they acclimate though, so just because your new bride doesn't like it here at first, doesn't necessarily mean any mistakes were made. and life will be horrible. It just another task we foreign bride seekers have to face and have the patience to handle. No one ever said this was easy.

[catz]

I think most foreign brides don't find life in America as they imagined it. The only two I know fairly well (my wife and Tess Brittain,) would much rather have returned home to their familiar surroundings, especially after the newness wore off. Maybe it's a case of overhyping of America - people around the world think life is easy here and the streets are paved with gold. After a while they acclimate though, so just because your new bride doesn't like it here at first, doesn't necessarily mean any mistakes were made. and life will be horrible. It just another task we foreign bride seekers have to face and have the patience to handle. No one ever said this was easy.

Very true! Most of what many of these ladies believe about the US is what they have seen on TV and in the movies or heard through the grapevine. This gives a very distorted perception of the daily life here. Some of them have a very hard time in that period between it being new and exciting and when they feel that they fit in (or maybe reasonably fit in would be more accurate). For some this will be a fairly short period and for others it could take a year or longer. It is the most trying and patience tearing time for you both. She because she feels like she has no home and no comfort. You because you cannot seem to find ways to make her happy. If ever in your life you need to find new depths of patience it is this time in your life together.

The good news is that if you both keep focused on your future and your life together this struggle will really cement the bond you have.

Catz

[michaelb]

everyone knew this guy was difficult to communicate with, he was socially inept and had an extremely bad temper, eventually the young woman had to leave and return under duress,

------------------------------------
 in other words its just a dry run

in other words its (sic) just a dry run - No, Ray is right, William is right, Sean is right....it's not a "dry run" and the more people treat it as such, the harder they make things for everyone else.

As for the first part, please define "everyone". If "everyone" includes the woman, then she's a fool-but even a fool doesn't deserve to be abused. If it did NOT include the woman (she couldn't figure it out because of language barrier, he kept his "best behavior" act going long enough to trick her, ....what ever). If you warned her but she didn't listen, then you did what you could, but if you didn't warn her, that's a different matter. If you knew he was no good but didn't warn her, why not? Don't you have a duty to look out for your clients' welfare?

[Ray]

If you warned her but she didn't listen, then you did what you could, but if you didn't warn her, that's a different matter. If you knew he was no good but didn't warn her, why not? Don't you have a duty to look out for your clients' welfare?

Good point Michael! HOWEVER, with most all of these agencies, isn't the "client" always the man and not the foreign woman? Why would an agency owner do any harm to the one who is paying his bills?

But I would like to think that a few of them would do what is right regardless... 

How about it Mark? Did you warn the young lady of what she was getting herself into with this jerk? Me thinks that agency stories like this only provide more ammunition for the feminist IMBRA supporters.

Ray

[Looking4Wife]

Good point Michael! HOWEVER, with most all of these agencies, isn't the "client" always the man and not the foreign woman? Why would an agency owner do any harm to the one who is paying his bills?

But I would like to think that a few of them would do what is right regardless... 

How about it Mark? Did you warn the young lady of what she was getting herself into with this jerk? Me thinks that agency stories like this only provide more ammunition for the feminist IMBRA supporters.

Ray

Ray:

I missed a big chunk in the middle of this discussion (for whatever reason apparently my computer lost track of the "New" posts in this thread).

So I am only going on the info from your post quoted here, and michaelb's posted above (which I presume includes a snippet from Mark Turner's post about a socially inept gringo client).

Just thinking off the top of my head, this raises an interesting point... how should an agency deal with a gringo who seems socially ill-suited (i.e. not dangerous) as a match for the women in the agency?

What if the agency doesn't realize this until the gringo sets foot on foreign soil?

Where does the agency draw the line... people fall in love all the time and other people look at the couple and say, "how in the world could THEY have ended up together"...

Just curious on what yours (or anyone's) take is on this, as this is the first time I've seen this discussion come up...
 

[markanthony7]

Micahelb 
Yes she was completely aware of his personality flaws and issue but they were both in "love" the good book says "love covers a multitude of sin", also and old saying states that love is blind, they were both desperately in love with each other and probably had the tendency to ignore the obvious, yes I feel we look to the best interest of the young lady but when some women come from the dregs of society and poverty their options are limited, so she was apt to at least take a chance at an opportunity even if there were warning signs or ignore characther flaws, but I just understood she may still be in the US

[Ray]

L4W,

If the male client is obviously not dangerous but simply not a good match for a female member of the agency then I personally don’t think the agency has any moral responsibility to step in and advise the woman that she is making a big mistake.

However, if the agency is playing the role of a matchmaker, and not simply providing an avenue for consenting adults to meet each other, then the whole picture changes. A matchmaker is not being honest or professional if he/she sees an obvious mismatch and says nothing.

I’ve seen Mark’s Web site and it appears that he is in the business of providing e-mail addresses and contact info of local ladies to his clients. He also apparently provides a translator/tour guide type of service, which does not appear to be what I would consider matchmaking.

But if his personal translators are also giving personal advice on whether or not they think a particular young lady is a good match for the client, then that gets more into the matchmaking realm and would give him more responsibilities in my opinion.

The reason I asked Mark if he had warned the young lady about his client was based mostly on his comment that the guy “had an extremely bad temper”, which in my book means he could be a possible danger to her.

But even without any hint that the guy could be dangerous, I would like to think that Mark or other owners of similar type agencies would see some obligation to at least gently advise against a visa process or marriage when the couple is so obviously a bad match, as seemed to be the case as he presented it here. I don’t think that being silent in such cases does either the male client or the young lady any good and may eventually give his business a negative reputation when former clients complain that their new bride ran out on them.

Now if a guy showed up at one of these agencies who was obviously a total jerk and probably not suitable spouse material for any of the ladies, then I guess the owner would just have to follow his conscience on whether or not to turn down the guy's business or refund his money and send him packing. Sometimes losing a few dollars today may mean more business down the road if you can develop a solid reputation for integrity and professionalism.

[markanthony7]

I think he posed no physical danger to her, just a very argumentative person from an emotional stand point that could be abusive or in other words a difficult person to communicate to or live with, but I don't want you to miss the big picture because a lot of these women are subjected to extreme poverty they are vulnerable and their options few, many of them have to or already have lower standards about what their expectations are for a suitable mate, their thresh hold or tolerance level is vastly greater that that of their American counter part

I have terminated the transaction process with some clients when they inquire or imply that we our an escort service, usually this is clarified in the first conversation, but we give general advise but still you are dealing with adults and it is their decision, just as long as you make the person aware of the other persons characther flaw

[michaelb]

Well, Mark, for whatever my opinion is worth, I liked you answers. Looks like you WON'T through the lady under the bus for a buck, but you will allow her to make her own INFORMED decision, based on her circumstances, but armed with the necessary knowledge. Sounds like a good way to handle those situations. Good work.

[blockbuster]

but I don't want you to miss the big picture because a lot of these women are subjected to extreme poverty they are vulnerable and their options few, many of them have to or already have lower standards about what their expectations are for a suitable mate, their thresh hold or tolerance level is vastly greater that that of their American counter part

 I agree, many will lower their standards and expecxtations for a husband. With a much greater tolerance of what is acceptable than AW. But thing is MA, after a few years in this country, her tolerance level may go down and her expectation levels higher.Why? Because she simply will have many more choices around than she ever dreamed.

[utopiacowboy]

I agree, many will lower their standards and expecxtations for a husband. With a much greater tolerance of what is acceptable than AW. But thing is MA, after a few years in this country, her tolerance level may go down and her expectation levels higher.Why? Because she simply will have many more choices around than she ever dreamed.

My question would be why choose a woman in such a situation, one who will lower her standards and expectations in order to get out of her present circumstances? Better to marry a woman who is not making a choice out of desperation.

[blockbuster]

UT,

 Guys target these types because they feel they are at an advantage if she is willing to settle due to her situation. Guys target girls who are too young to know what they really want in life and ones who are desperate to get out of their situations. Not much different than what happens in the U.S. Guys just need a lot more money in the U.S. to impress the youngin's and target the women who will lower their standards for the mighty green dollar.

[utopiacowboy]

UT,

 Guys target these types because they feel they are at an advantage if she is willing to settle due to her situation. Guys target girls who are too young to know what they really want in life and ones who are desperate to get out of their situations. Not much different than what happens in the U.S. Guys just need a lot more money in the U.S. to impress the youngin's and target the women who will lower their standards for the mighty green dollar.

And this is the recipe for a happy marriage?

[TXAK]

interesting read guys...

i'll be making my trip soon and ive been chatting a few ladies...and admittedly their desperation is easily noticeable.   

i've tried to "talk down" american men (just so I dont disappoint them) and i find them largely resistant.  They dont believe me.

kinda sad really.

[michaelb]

UT,

 Guys target these types because they feel they are at an advantage if she is willing to settle due to her situation. Guys target girls who are too young to know what they really want in life and ones who are desperate to get out of their situations.

ANYBODY can get married, if they simply set their standards low enough. (credit quote to either Ann Landers or her twin sister Abigail Van Buren) ......or my version of it: "Losers always seem to manage to find each other."  But as UC pointed out, this is not necessarily the formula for a HAPPY marriage.

[blockbuster]

And this is the recipe for a happy marriage?

No, exact oposite. It's a recipe for disater.

[markanthony7]

1. Utopiacowboy- I personally don't feel these women lower their standards deliberately, I feel their standards are already lower from what they are accustomed to expect in their culture, which by enlarge overtly chauvinistic, in Colombia the men just do not marry these women because they are so plentiful, thats why they are so available to us, so basically if you treat them with respect, a little affection and a little financial support, they feel like they hit the lottery! and by Colombian standards they!, the average Colombian female suffers deprivation of these essentials

2. TXAK- I like to split a hair, I think what you are describing is not necessarily indicative of Colombian women romancing and marrying American men but in general young people that have never fell in to the "marital trap", oops! excuse me, I mean fell in love and married are delusional about marriage and its expectations

[pan de bono]

Hell this stuff happens all the time, i cant begin to tell you all the guys i have met that have been burned by a Colombiana. lovy dovy, kiss kiss, get married, come to the state, sit on ass, wont learn english, wont contribute to house, gets bored with gringo and is gone in a flash. hasppens all the time i personally know of at least 15 guys that this has happened to. join the club.

[Landover]

Mudd & others: After a dozen plus trips to Colombia, my latest theory on finding the classier girl who will not run on you is to inquire about their school background.  If they went to a school where their teachers were nuns, they seem to be more disciplined and reliable.