Colombian Cupid: Good, Bad and Short

[JimD]

Z´s $1'000.000 to $1'200.000 per month is about right from what I´ve heard from the girls and some do better. Pretty good wages when you consider the salario minimo in Colombia is around $600.000. Also a standard trick is to connect with their clients through messenger bypassing the company and getting moneygrams direct. The sex isn´t just virtual though because sometimes they are asked to do "shows" with another girl, a guy or both. Some of it can be simulated but not all...so I´m told. 

[JimD]

Some have made the point that Colombia dating culture and mores are just plain different from the US. This is absolutely true and not to be overlooked. I was seeing a girl who was closely connected with the “bajo mundo”.  She is a city girl, young and knows all the ropes. She told me once she had a  friend her age who was a sicario (hit man) who had killed I don´t remember how many people. She said he´d stopped though having become a cristiano (later returned to it ’cause the money was good.)  After a few belts of “crema wisky” (Baileys) she’d open up and told me one time about her many girl friends who worked at casas de citas or were prepagos. That didn’t surprise me but I asked her if these girls had novios and  if the novios knew what was up.  Of course she said laughing it´s reality in Colombia.  And indeed it is the reality in Colombia for hot looking lower strata (say 1-4) girls aged seventeen to about twenty four. (At twenty five or there abouts they start thinking they need to get hooked up with a provider). 
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So…be careful out there.

[AndyLee]

She told me once she had a  friend her age who was a sicario (hit man) who had killed I don´t remember how many people. She said he´d stopped though having become a cristiano (later returned to it ’cause the money was good.) 

I wonder how much a sciario actually makes each time? I've been quoted 400,000 for a regular citizen to be bumped off. Is that about right?
I also understand the sicarios are usually underage because they don't get arrested or punished. I wonder how true that really is, or is it just another urban legend? I do recall a couple months ago a story in Colombia Reports about a hit girl in Barranquilla who had tallied 5 hits when she was 15.
Jeez, what a country!

[opusone]

I wonder how much a sciario actually makes each time? I've been quoted 400,000 for a regular citizen to be bumped off. Is that about right?
I also understand the sicarios are usually underage because they don't get arrested or punished. I wonder how true that really is, or is it just another urban legend? I do recall a couple months ago a story in Colombia Reports about a hit girl in Barranquilla who had tallied 5 hits when she was 15.
Jeez, what a country!

LOL did you solicit a quote? We need details.

[JimD]

Andy I´m not up on prices but that sounds about right. Would depend of course on how high profile of the target is. But your other point about kids under eighteen is absolutely true. There have been several "hit" murders in Cali in the last several months where the killer was underage including an important and well liked plastic surgeon. They do not go to jail. I have often thought that if I wanted to be a hard criminal this is the country. No capital punishment under any circumstances and not even life imprisonment. If you do happen to end up doing a little hard time  at least you can have your wife/novia or prosti take care of your needs evert Sunday.

[JimD]

LOL did you solicit a quote? We need details.

In a village about fifty thousand pesos would do it. (And you could get laid for ten).

[Zon]

WOW - now we are getting some nice unvarnished dialogue.  I wish it could be like this ALL the time.

OK - sorry for my seeming contradictions.  But, again, I am a work in progress. 

Personally, I have paid for fun ... I prefer to pay for diner or shoes.  The man always pays.    Without some kind of sincere, noncommercial attraction, I do not give a sh$t.  With it, depending on the circumstances, and my options at the time ... what the hell.   I am single and open for experiences of all types.  I think it makes me a better judge of things.

My point with a web cam model ( the 19 year old that I mentioned earlier in on this thread, incidentally, is in fact an excellent web cam modelo) is they are NOT usually anything like a prepago.  In this specific example the girl was very inexperienced.  She was rather conservative in nature - never smoked pot, did not like alcohol or partying - she really just wants to finish college.  There are degrees of danger and exposure (biological) and even psychological damage (the same occurs with Rock Stars) when one lives in the casas / prepago life style.  Web Cam models are more like harmless sexy video games - in my opinion.  There is not nearly the same degree of compromise.

=> I think men should know the real score and be willing to manage the facts on the ground as he gains experiences <=

===

With regard to me saying what I would, or would not do ... again, those things are more of a guide line than a rule.   I am open minded, and do not make decisions quickly.  I would PREFER to not be serious with a woman who is, or was involved in crap like that.  Dating is harmless and fun - I just need honesty. I do not want to be the last guy to know the true score.  After than, I am pretty accepting.

===

don't like even talking about gatos or hitmen.

[fathertime]

1.  If I knew in advance, I wouldn't want to even date 'webcam' gals or any gal involved in prostitution.  For me, I realize it could be fun for an evening or two, but time is limited in Colombia and I wouldn't want to waste my time on ladies that have done these disqualifying activities.  There are quite a few attractive ladies who haven't done either, so I would focus on them instead.   



2.  I get uncomfy when I hear lots of talk about hitmen and their prices.  It is a horrible deed they do, taking a person's life and hurting the feelings of all those people that care for the person.   


3.  People living in Colombia often have time to waste on all sorts of things.  Newbies searching for a wife that are going for a week or two at a time, should consider that fact.   



Fathertime! 

[Zon]

FT - "People living in Colombia often have time to waste on all sorts of things"

For what it is worth, I have had WONDERFUL, MEMORABLE experiences with many women from those groups.  There was nothing cheap, or dirty, in my experiences with them.  I shared an unique honesty and openness.  And, I have had amazing WHOOPY - utterly and absolutely AMAZING.

But, again, my hair is not on fire trying to find a wife. 

If I was a guy trying to find a wife in less than 2 weeks a year without Spanish, I would only use agencies, and treat the trip as a job (because the odd and time is not in your favor)

[JimD]

Uncomfy? Well according to what I read here you certainly made a lot of people uncomfy with your long drawn out tit-for-tat with DL. Maybe you could talk to Dan about limiting discussion here to the subjects you like to talk/argue about. I think he likes you and there´s a good chance he´ll go along with it. Failing that you could start your own forum and limit it to people who want to be, will be or have been to Colombia for one week.

[fathertime]

Uncomfy? Well according to what I read here you certainly made a lot of people uncomfy with your long drawn out tit-for-tat with DL. Maybe you could talk to Dan about limiting discussion here to the subjects you like to talk/argue about. I think he likes you and there´s a good chance he´ll go along with it. Failing that you could start your own forum and limit it to people who want to be, will be or have been to Colombia for one week.

Who went peepee in your cheerios?     I was stating my thought on the matter.  I'm not asking for moderation to get involved.  Feel free to talk about hitmen if that what makes your weewee hard!   


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

But, again, my hair is not on fire trying to find a wife. 
 

Consider yourself lucky that you have hair.


Fathertime!

[JimD]

Who went peepee in your cheerios?     I was stating my thought on the matter.  I'm not asking for moderation to get involved.  Feel free to talk about hitmen if that what makes your weewee hard!   

Yeah I see you were kind of at a loss for words.
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But I like this one: " People living in Colombia often have time to waste..." This from the persona with 3000 y pico posts who seems to be on here every waking hour. Weren´t you supposed to have a Colombian wife or something and a passle of kids?  She must spend all her time on facebook since you´re pretty busy here.
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As to the "newbies" (kind of an insulting term) you post you are concerned about. What is it exactly that you have to offer them? From your signature I see you:
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10/08Visited BAQ to meet future wife
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12/08 Visited a second time and got engaged
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02/09quickvisit BAQ
 
...sounds like you haven´t spent much time with your feet on the ground here in Colombia. I would say that kind of leaves you with out much hard information to offer  to your "newbies".  On the other hand you have posted a veritable cornucopia of your opinions which I imagine have kept the "newbies" riveted in thier seats. However there are posters here myself included who are inclined to offer on the ground information to the "newbies". Surely it´s not your intention to discourage that.
 

[Zon]

FT - "Consider yourself lucky that you have hair."

My hair saves me.  Without it I would be only two ears and a nose ... a normal gringo.

JimD - I love your style:)

honestly, I wish we could have substantive and honest dialogue here without giving a damn about the personalities of the posters.   I have met 5 or 7 guys from Dan's boards in real life, and most were really exceptional - some have become close friends.  The others, I never needed to meet in person anyway.

[fathertime]

Yeah I see you were kind of at a loss for words.
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But I like this one: " People living in Colombia often have time to waste..." This from the persona with 3000 y pico posts who seems to be on here every waking hour. Weren´t you supposed to have a Colombian wife or something and a passle of kids?  She must spend all her time on facebook since you´re pretty busy here.
.
As to the "newbies" (kind of an insulting term) you post you are concerned about. What is it exactly that you have to offer them? From your signature I see you:
.

10/08Visited BAQ to meet future wife
.
12/08 Visited a second time and got engaged
.
02/09quickvisit BAQ
 
...sounds like you haven´t spent much time with your feet on the ground here in Colombia. I would say that kind of leaves you with out much hard information to offer  to your "newbies".  On the other hand you have posted a veritable cornucopia of your opinions which I imagine have kept the "newbies" riveted in thier seats. However there are posters here myself included who are inclined to offer on the ground information to the "newbies". Surely it´s not your intention to discourage that.

Ha!  Looks like JimD has his shorts in a knot, which is nice to see.  Go ahead and speak about hitmen some more if you want to, don’t let my opinion, which was stated in a respectful manner, stop you!  I’ve not discouraged you from posting your ‘on the ground info’, you crybaby!   I wonder why you are so twisted because I mentioned that it makes me a little squeamish hearing talk about hitmen in Colombia? I wonder why my opinion was THAT important to you. 
 I’ve spent enough time with a Colombian wife, to have a pretty decent idea of how to make a relationship work, so you can be sure I’ll be around to help ‘newbies’ in that area among others.  Meanwhile you tell them all about prepagos and the price of hitmen, where you have your cornucopia of experience!    Like I mentioned earlier, when you have lots of time in Colombia to waste, you can experience it all.   


Fathertime! 

[AndyLee]

We are way off topic with the hit man dialog, and I agree with FT that it's a terrible practice. But then again, maybe we aren't so off topic. The hit man tradition in Colombia is part of the psyche. It is one indicator of how cheap life is here. Imagine if in the US you knew that for a lousy $200 your pissed off neighbor or your boss or your employee or your crazy ex-wife could have you killed for $200 and almost no chance of getting caught. Wouldn't you treat people a little differently? Incidentally to all of this, in Colombia only 5% of murderers ever get caught, there is no capital punishment and prison life for anyone who has connections is sort of like house arrest. Anyone under 18 cannot be put in prison.
There is a gringo in the Café Zona who's house has been robbed 4 times, each time the police catch the same 15 year old kid but they never get the stuff back unless the gringo pays a substantial reward. We tease this gringo because most of us have a maid and a gardener but he has his own thief.

The way the sicario works here is two people on a moto hang out in the area of the victim and when the moment is right they maneuver alongside and the rear man on the moto fires several shots directly into the victim then the moto speeds away to be lost in a mess of other motos that all pretty much look the same and disappears in a maze of streets and alleys where you could hide indefinitely. All the witnesses see are two people on a black moto with black jackets and jeans and helmets with dark face screens and stolen license plate.
This form of murder is so common in Colombia that several years ago some of the cities passed laws to say that in the downtown areas a moto cannot carry passengers.
In other downtown areas a man cannot be a passenger on a moto. For example, when Jacque and I go to Armenia she has to be the passenger. IF I am the passenger the fine is 300,000 pesos. That's probably one of the reasons the hit girl in Barranquilla is so successful because she's the passenger and the two people on a moto have access to the whole city.
Colombia has a higher murder rate than even countries that are at war. However, progress is being made. In 2000 the murder rate in Colombia was 68 per million but has declined significantly each year. In 2010 it was 38 per million. The US is at 7 per million. In the US something like 63% of murders are solved.
So, Yes, this dialog is way off topic but nonetheless can be useful to help us understand the sometimes bewildering behavior of the Colombian people. Life is cheap here, so maybe they see the solution is party hardy, don't have confrontations, don't disagree with people.

[Zon]

FT = " I’ve spent enough time with a Colombian wife, to have a pretty decent idea of how to make a relationship work, so you can be sure I’ll be around to help ‘newbies’ in that area among others.  Meanwhile you tell them all about prepagos and the price of hitmen, where you have your cornucopia of experience!    Like I mentioned earlier, when you have lots of time in Colombia to waste, you can experience it all. "

I am happy that you seem happy in your marriage ... but you pat yourself on the back so much about it, I find it a little odd.  I could imagine you making a trophy case filled with milestones of your relationship.  AND IF you are in love with your wife THAT much, and if THAT  is the center and totality of your existence, good for you.   

BUT, why constantly try to narrow the scope of this board to only the most sliver topics - going to several cities; using agencies to meet women, getting married, and going through the Visa process .. and then maybe returning to visit family?

This thead has real dialouge that begins to address the Colombian culture and the subtle, and not so subtle differences, between there and here.  For example, I have (and I know ) how the prepago / web cam girl issue overlaps with the agencies catalogue ... there is significant application of those topics on this board.  But, that is only for guys that want to know the real score and not the fairy tale.

And, have you noticed that there are many guys that use this board that DO in fact live, or spend much time in Colombia?   Even more are interested in doing so.  Entonces, why "people who live in Colombia waste time".   What are you doing this weekend in the USA, besides monitoring this discussion board?  HAHAHA

[beginthebeguin]

Jim_D wrote

...sounds like you haven´t spent much time with your feet on the ground here in Colombia. I would say that kind of leaves you with out much hard information to offer  to your "newbies".  On the other hand you have posted a veritable cornucopia of your opinions which I imagine have kept the "newbies" riveted in thier seats. However there are posters here myself included who are inclined to offer on the ground information to the "newbies". Surely it´s not your intention to discourage that.

Listen carefully to that comment FT. I have dropped a 'hint' or two (hence my avatar change) already that you have become an opinionated 'boor' but you have yet to 'catch on'.
And here is an observation for those of you who have spent an inordinate amount of time posting of your sucess(es) in finding a wife or a significant partner (You know who you are, I hope). Women are not 'trophies'. Save the displays for your Facebook page. And no Andy_Lee I was not referring to you.

[opusone]

Well, the forum says "Latin general discussion " in reference to dating in Latin America. I surely would want to know every sliver of information I could possibly get my hands on if I was thinking of living/dating someone from another country. I don't see how discussing "hitmen" in Colombia, would mean that one is cynical or any less sensitive to the point of the forum. Are we not to discuss cocaine trafficking, tax drivers that rip you off/ set you up, bad real estate deals, immigration problems, DNS haggling with your extended stay, agencies (bad and good)? We cant discuss long hair, beautiful faces, and beautiful bottoms, all day . Those are a given.

[fathertime]

Once again, I did not say the topic of hitmen was off-limits.  Among many things, I mentioned that I personally am uncomfy with it.  Whoop-de-doo!  I don’t have the authority to stop topics from being posted and if I did, this topic would not be off-limits anyway. 
I respectfully stated a personal opinion, which is completely permissible.  Right?  I’m not sure what the firestorm is about


Fathertime!

[JimD]

Good post Andy.

In other downtown areas a man cannot be a passenger on a moto.

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Such is the case in Cali. Funny you mention it. In todays El Pais there´s an article about the motoratones (mototaxistas). It turns out they charge women $1200 amd men $1500. Why the differemce? Because it´s illegal to have a male passanger. Now I can´t imagine the extra three hundred pesos is going to help him much when he gets stopped by the Guarda De Transito and is given a hefty fine but it serves as an excuse for charging alittle more.
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http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/cali/mototaxismo-tomo-siete-sectores-ciudad