Author Topic: " Tampo" (Read 12357 times)

Stagga · « **on:** January 07, 2009, 04:27:51 AM »

Please give your opinion on this one.

All guy's who have "filipina" wife,fiance,girlfriends and etc.

If your Filipina i think it's normal to get "TAMPO" i m sure you guy's are familiar on this but you think this attitude is bad?

Do You Leave Her Because of it?

Your Opinion is highly appreciated

stevjulietb · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2009, 04:32:06 AM »

lol, I'm sure bear will reply about this topic....My wife really doesn't tampo...easy going person she is.....tampo reminds me of american womens attitude....I personally couldn't put up with it!

Steveb

Bear · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 06:47:21 AM »

Tampo is a technique Filipinas and Filipinos use on each other. It is not consistent with how AMs were raised to respond to our wives needs and does not fit in our culture. AMs tend to be unable to deal with in the manner Filipinas are expecting which makes the problem infinitely worse. Is that the goal of Filipinas - to make the marriage worse?

Communication of the problem and your expectations makes more sense than to expect someone to play "1000 questions" with you. Why would you expect that your husband would not want you to be happy and why would you think its your job to "punish" him if he doesn't make you happy and then to expect some reward for doing it? Then if you add in the problems that naturally occur with language and culture differences. Tampo is like bringing a "ticking bomb" to a peace conference - its going to explode and hurt innocent people.

Just my opinion but I see it as a cruel and evil technique that should not be tolerated. My goal in life is to make my wife happy and safe. I take that extremely serious. To be "punished" for not understanding something? You got to be kidding!

The Bear Family

Planet-Love.com · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 06:47:21 AM »

Jeff S · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:33:28 AM »

My wife is not a filipina, but is Asian and she, like most Asians, gets quiet when she gets angry. I never thought of it as an evil, manipulative technique, just a response to anger. It's a lot better than screaming and throwing dishes. (I'm sure Dave will have something to say about that one.) I get quiet and withdrawn when I get angry too, but sometimes after one outburst. It's a social response in Asia IMO, where people are taught that emotions are not to be displayed in public, neither good ones (PDAs) or bad ones.

The couple who introduced my wife (JW/AM) and I met and married when they were older and divorced. He took her home to Japan for the first time in 20 years for a visit, and was astounded at how formal and quiet her family received them at their home. Everyone lined up and with no expressions on their faces, deeply bowed and formally welcomed her home. No hugs, kisses tears, or excited jabbering.

I get over anger quickly, while it takes my wife longer, but I suspect that's a man/woman thing rather than an Asian/Western thing. The same is true with others in my family. (AM/AW)

dinda · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:10:31 PM »

what is TAMPO?

Ray · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2009, 09:11:25 PM »

Personally, I think tampo is juvenile and unproductive in a relationship.

I understand that Filipina women use it mostly as a weapon against a man or someone more powerful as a way to express their anger and empower themselves. Yes, itâ€™s a better alternative to physical violence, but it hinders good communication that is vital in any relationship.

My first Filipina wife used it on occasion and she was a pro. For the first serious tampo, she clamed up and ignored me for over two weeks because she was mad about some stupid misunderstanding. I really had no idea why she was mad but I refused to play along with the game. When she finally realized that I wasnâ€™t going to play she snapped out of it and told me why she was mad. It was so utterly stupid that I began laughing uncontrollably and that put her back into her tampo for another day. Her last super-tampo was over some silly little misunderstanding and lasted for a year and a half. Four months into it she filed for divorce mostly because her tampo wasnâ€™t getting her the attention she expected from it. She was willing to throw away 23 years of marriage over a stupid tampo? Oh wellâ€¦

I dealt with it mostly by just ignoring it. It is against my nature to play these kinds of silly games. I realize that tampo is a part of Filipino culture but I consider that part of the culture to be a negative one and I will not play the lambing lambing and guessing games that Filipino men or some foreign husbands are willing to put up with.

If you want to break a tampo, I have found that the best way is to make her laugh. Once she so much as cracks a smile itâ€™s all over. For those guys who wish to grovel and crawl in Filipino fashion to end the tampo, you have my sincerest sympathies.

Ray

Jeff S · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2009, 08:20:51 AM »

Quote from: dinda on January 07, 2009, 07:10:31 PM

what is TAMPO?

When a woman is angry with a man, she gives him the silent treatment and refuses to speak or even look it him for a long period of time.

Two weeks, A year and a half? Wow. I thought we were talking about a couple of hours here.

Bob_S · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2009, 03:54:07 PM »

Ya know, I read about guys whose wives throw a Tampo for days or weeks, and how the guy has to learn how to do lambing. And I think, geez, they say Japan is a nation of 12 year-olds?

Save yourself some misery. Don't marry a child who throws tantrums.

Ray · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2009, 04:30:40 PM »

Quote from: Bob_S on January 08, 2009, 03:54:07 PM

Save yourself some misery. Don't marry a child who throws tantrums.

I agree 100%.

However, in my case, she wasn't a child when we married. She was 25 and almost a year older than me.

The first real tampo didn't show up until 7 years into our marriage and we knew each other for over 4 years before marriage. Not a hint up until then.

We always discussed thing openly and intelligently before that but I guess there was some imbedded tampo gene that was lying in wait under the surface until she was 32-years-old.

She did tell me once that she would get her way by throwing kicking and screaming tantrums when she was a small child, but those kinds of tantrums are nothing like a tampo.

Sometimes I guess you just never know... LOL!

Ray

Bear · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:22:48 PM »

Hey Fellas, sorry about the delay here but I'm in the hospital wasting money. A combination of a bad stomach virus, slipped disk in my deck, my blood pressure suddenly skyrocketing and an extremely stressful day at work made everyone think I was having a heart attack? Doc won't let me leave although he says all the test are negative so far?

Honey and I had a long talk about "tampo" and she says we have totally misdiagnosed it. She said Bob is right and its a small 2-3 hour thing, not the PMS Honey has or the problems Ray had with his first wife. Nor do I think Honey does tampo but severe hormonal bouts. Most of the time shes as sweet as sugar, uh make that Honey, but she defines the medical conditions mentioned in PMS. After a few hours or days she suddenly snaps and its over with. Problem is she has the Filipina beliefs that all Kanos are overmedicated and she doesn't need treatment. I've been trying to get her to go in for HT and her OBGyn has perscibed over the counter "CALCIUM!?" as the proper treatment but the Filipino belief we do too many drugs persists. She'll start taking the calcium but quit cause she doesn't see value in it and dislikes the taste.

I do not think a medical condition is a reason for divorce, not in the vows I gave of "...in sickness or health...". But I deal with it firmly and don't allow her continue once I am aware its started because it only gets worse. I agree that getting her to laugh is best. But mostly I just talk to her till she tells me whats wrong. Most of the time is such unbelievable misunderstandings (culture/language) or something that could have been easily discussed (forgetting or her not understanding my reason yet) that it blows me away but since this is hormonal I don't think she can easily control it. I do know two other guys who had very similar problems and two guys who's wives were worse (bipolar). Each case saw the condition change with childbirth and changes to their menstrual cycles. All seemed to be "cured" with a hysterectomy but Honey is way too young for that (28).

I hope nothing I've said here makes any of y'all think badly of her cause she really is a very sweet girl who just has a medical condition. Me having to deal with it is tough but my fast/prayers before we married confirmed she was the right girl so Heavenly Father must know what I'm dealing with and how much I can take? Honestly anyone who has dealt with the abuse she has deserves a little compassion on my part. I've personally seen it and dealt with it and I think I'd do be that way too considering.

The Bear Family

michaelb · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2009, 10:26:57 PM »

Quote from: Bear on January 08, 2009, 07:22:48 PM

Hey Fellas, sorry about the delay here but I'm in the hospital wasting money. A combination of a bad stomach virus, slipped disk in my deck, my blood pressure suddenly skyrocketing and an extremely stressful day at work made everyone think I was having a heart attack? Doc won't let me leave although he says all the test are negative so far?

Now why for you want to be going round carrying on and scaring folks like that?

Bear · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:29:11 AM »

I'm just mean that way!

This place is starting to aggravate me because the nurses don't know what they are doing. Using a cup thats way too small to take my blood pressure making it seem elevated. I've had to tell them 4x that is not a correct reading. Only had to tell the nurse once yesterday and she got a different machine and my readings were high but boarderline. Theses they are getting now are way too high. The nurses are all Pakistanis/Indians and I don't think they understand English? Where are my Filipina Nurses?

The Bear Family

leather neck · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:25:47 AM »

I just happening to have come across this yesterday before reading this thread, and oh, is it so appropriate. I am sure many of you fellas have encountered one or all of these reactions before.

Nine words women use...

1.) Fine: This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.

2.) Five Minutes: If she is getting dressed, this means a half an hour. Five minutes is only five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes to watch

the game before helping around the house.

3! .) Nothing: This is the calm before the storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. Arguments that begin with "nothing" usually end in "fine".

4.) Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

5.) Loud Sigh: This is actually a word, but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you about nothing. (Refer back to #3 for the meaning of nothing.)

6.) That's Okay: This is one of the ! most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. That's okay means she wants to think long and hard before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake.

7.) Thanks: A woman is thanking you, do not question, or Faint. Just say you're welcome.

8.) Whatever: Is a women's way of saying F**K U!

9.) Don't worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking "What's wrong?" For the woman's response refer to #3.

And of course the old favourite
"You know exactly what you have done"..... to which ,men never can remember

Leatherneck

Planet-Love.com · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:25:47 AM »

leather neck · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:32:53 AM »

Hey Bear,

...hurry up and get better....then get out of there as soon as possible!

Leatherneck

Staggo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:50:09 PM »

hmmm. Leatherneck...lol at the list

Ray · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:40:02 PM »

Quote from: Bear on January 08, 2009, 07:22:48 PM

Honey and I had a long talk about "tampo" and she says we have totally misdiagnosed it. She said Bob is right and its a small 2-3 hour thing, not the PMS Honey has or the problems Ray had with his first wife. Nor do I think Honey does tampo but severe hormonal bouts.

Bear,

That's correct, tampo has nothing to do with PMS or hormonal imbalances. Tampo is a cultural trait used by some Filipina women. I have never heard of a man doing tampo.

A small 2-3 hour thing I don't even worry about. Hell, I could handle those standing on my head! It's the multi-day tampos or those that continue for weeks or months that are the real killers. If your wife has never seen one of those, then she's lucky I guess.

The "Super Tampo" is a phenomenon that you need to be concerned about if you ever experience one. You guys think a couple of months or even a year & a half is a long tampo? My wife had a previous manager at work (Filipina) who continued a tampo against another company employee for over four years and counting up until she left the company. These â€œSuper Tamposâ€ may not be very common but be assured that they do definitely exist!

A short (2-3 hour) tampo can be expected if your Filipina mate has reason to be pissed at you. Itâ€™s how they handle arguments or disagreements without all of the yelling and screaming youâ€™re used to in many other cultures. It isnâ€™t always a bad thing if used very sparingly and limited in duration. If your Pinay mate doesnâ€™t ever use tampo, I would consider yourself fortunate!

Ray

piglett · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2009, 09:24:23 PM »

Bear
hurry up & get out of that hospital
that place is only for sick people & you do not sound all that sick to me

I am sure Honey will be glad to give a gentle back rub once you are back home
as far as the blood pressure, you just need a good medicine man to do little blood letting , that is all

hope U get better soon
piglett

stevjulietb · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2009, 04:52:56 AM »

Hope you are feeling better Bear

Steveb

leather neck · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2009, 05:02:21 AM »

Yeah Staggo,

When I read it, I had to chuckle also...I have heard a few of those on the list.

Leatherneck

Bear · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:17:09 AM »

Thanks for the well wishes fellas. I am home now.

Wasted 3 days of my life in the hospital making some doctors wealthy. I had a pulled muscle in my left arm/shoulder from (I guess) lifting the kids and a really bad stomach virus that made it look like I was really having a heart attack (3 of the 6 symptoms). When they first read my bp it was 196/98 and continued to be 188/104 for the next 24 hours. Pain in my shoulder and the high readings would not have continued for than long if it was a heart attack - I would have died. Finally I complained that the reading was ridiculous and not possible since they were giving me nitro and two other bp medications. They changed machine three times and decided it was only 140/81 which is slightly high but excpected for someone in my situation and sent me home.
Now I really am under a lot of stress because the 6 projects I had to complete I have 2 days less to do them in - my boss visited me in the hospiutal and told me under no circumstances to come in this weekend to catch up?

Oh well, que sera. I did get to read a third of Brisingr (3rd book of the Aragon Series) by Chris Paolini but I missed the BCS game because the hospital TV didn't get Fox!?

The Bear Family

Stagga · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:29:38 AM »

Hello Mr. Bear

I m happy that your home now Take it easy !!!

Umm Wow i was surprise when Mr. Ray say that his first wife get tampo for one and half year i think that's different tampo lol..

Usually Filipina Woman Get Tampo for like 2 to 3 days.

I do get tampo sometimes......if ever that happen for sure there big reason

but don't stay that long because my partner know how to "loving loving" me. everytime he did that umm make me smile...

when i get tampo ...i realize sometimes that he don't deserve it at all and i feel guilty inside. at that moment i do communicate with him. i do the loving loving thing too. it's give and take..!

Bear · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:47:01 AM »

Lang I think what he's saying, if I may answer for him, is she didn't discuss the problem or difference, she tried to manipulate and control. No man (or woman?) marries with the intent of "controlling" his (her) spouse. Communication is the key in all situations and "silent treatment" with the expectation of gain because you feel you deserve it is nothing more that "bad attitude" no spouse deserves. AMs do not do it back so there is no way you can, "he'll do it too". If you are mad then says so, things can be resolved then, but to expect a man to stop and give you 100% attention simply because you've decided you are in control and you want it, is nothing more than 'cruel'. Most AMs will do what ever it takes to satisfy our wives anyway (of course with equal expectations in return). Isn't it better to work with someone than to try and force them? Do you want people to force you to do something and then expect reward for it?

The Bear Family

piglett · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:20:45 PM »

1 of the ladies that i am chating with told me that she hopes she does not have to go to work in a bar.
RED FLAG

Planet-Love.com · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:20:45 PM »

Ray · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2009, 04:15:53 PM »

She probably already works in a bar...

piglett · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2009, 04:28:05 PM »

she said she went to school to be a care giver & something to do with computers. she also said that she used to work in a call center

Bear · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:25:25 PM »

Quote from: Lang-Lang on January 10, 2009, 10:29:38 AM

Hello Mr. Bear

I m happy that your home now Take it easy !!!

Umm Wow i was surprise when Mr. Ray say that his first wife get tampo for one and half year i think that's different tampo lol..
Usually Filipina Woman Get Tampo for like 2 to 3 days.

I do get tampo sometimes......if ever that happen for sure there big reason but don't stay that long because my partner know how to "loving loving" me. everytime he did that umm make me smile...

when i get tampo ...i realize sometimes that he don't deserve it at all and i feel guilty inside. at that moment i do communicate with him. i do the loving loving thing too. it's give and take..!

I'm sorry I didn't see this post before mine.

I can understand the desire for pampering (lambing lambing as you might call it) but not the pain and discomfort it causes to get it. I give it to my wife willingly without request and often as a surprise which means it came from my heart not by deceit or manipulation. If your man isn't caring for you then wap him upside the head and have him email me for the reason.

The Bear Family

dinda · « **Reply #26 on:** January 11, 2009, 06:28:11 PM »

Quote from: Jeff S on January 08, 2009, 08:20:51 AM

When a woman is angry with a man, she gives him the silent treatment and refuses to speak or even look it him for a long period of time.

Two weeks, A year and a half? Wow. I thought we were talking about a couple of hours here.

hi Jeff,

two weeks is quite a long period... when im angry, i'll leave the place and drive for about 1-2hours and come back home like nothing happen... i'll try to find a right time to talk about the problem...

i have to admit that i can be a bit violence only when i cant control my anger but it only happens once in a while... like what u see in Mr & Mrs Smith...

regards,
Dinda

Dave H · « **Reply #27 on:** January 11, 2009, 09:10:30 PM »

Hey Bear,

I am happy that you are out of the hospital and it wasn't serious! The headache from that damn nitro drip will drive you out of your mind!

Dave

Dave H · « **Reply #28 on:** January 11, 2009, 09:13:01 PM »

Quote from: piglett on January 10, 2009, 03:20:45 PM

1 of the ladies that i am chating with told me that she hopes she does not have to go to work in a bar.
RED FLAG

Hey piglett,

I agree with Ray! She is probably already working in a bar.

Dave

Dave H · « **Reply #29 on:** January 11, 2009, 09:19:00 PM »

Quote from: Jeff S on January 07, 2009, 08:33:28 AM

My wife is not a filipina, but is Asian and she, like most Asians, gets quiet when she gets angry. I never thought of it as an evil, manipulative technique, just a response to anger. It's a lot better than screaming and throwing dishes. (I'm sure Dave will have something to say about that one.) I get quiet and withdrawn when I get angry too, but sometimes after one outburst. It's a social response in Asia IMO, where people are taught that emotions are not to be displayed in public, neither good ones (PDAs) or bad ones.

Hey Jeff,

I agree! Sure it can be annoying, but is much better than what I've experienced from my ex and many others of her ethnicity!!! A short tampo is much more civil and classy!

Dave

piglett · « **Reply #30 on:** January 12, 2009, 05:20:27 PM »

HE HE HE now she says she is in Manila
I thought she was from a province
good thing she was only plan B
they are eazy to find
plan A is still looking really good

thanks for all the help
Piglett

Jeff S · « **Reply #31 on:** January 12, 2009, 05:54:23 PM »

Quote from: dinda on January 11, 2009, 06:28:11 PM

hi Jeff,

two weeks is quite a long period... when im angry, i'll leave the place and drive for about 1-2hours and come back home like nothing happen... i'll try to find a right time to talk about the problem...

i have to admit that i can be a bit violence only when i cant control my anger but it only happens once in a while... like what u see in Mr & Mrs Smith...

regards,
Dinda

Uhhh didn't they try to kill each other in that movie? Maybe you'd better warn off any potential suitors:

dinda · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2009, 06:29:19 PM »

hi Jeff,

in my case, i dun really use all that guns and bombs...

i just started my Aikido Shudokan class (its amazing, i love the uniform), and i already quit my kickboxing class... so, i might use all those techniques i learned on my opponent... LOL!!

regards,
Dinda

Raquelfebtember · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2009, 10:33:31 PM »

Tampo is all about wanting attention. I admit I had major tampo once when I'm pregnant must be hormonal change.When I was 5 months pregnant with my son now 6 years old one night I had tampo just decided I wanna be in Tampo mood.I get up in bed and sleep on living room floor hoping my husband would notice I was gone.I wait and wait and he never wake up.I was so mad lol so I went outside and decided I will sleep on the car.I know for sure in the middle of the night he will use the bathroom and he will surely notice I'm not in bed with him.Wrong!It was fall and weather is cold.Good thing I had big blanket in there and pillow.I am not worry about the cold but worry about the aswang hahahah.I keep thingkin I bet the aswang is watching me and maybe start eating my baby.I wish I am more prefer for this I forgot the garlic.I was to afraid to get out of the car so I stay there.Finally I fall asleep and wake up the next morning refresh.Talk about my body was cold.Guess what I even lock the door when I went outside good thing I found the key.When I open the door my husband is in the kitchen dringking coffee and I walked in and greet him good morning and he said Oh you went for early walk.Would you beleive he never even know I'm having tampo and he sleep through it.Never even notice I was gone.After that I bow myself not to have tampo again since its so useless.
He was laughing so hard when I tell him not long ago about that tampo episode.

Ray · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:30:45 AM »

Hey Raquel, that's funny!

I don't think you have to worry too much about the aswang here in the States. They don't issue visas to aswangs and they never pass the medical exam anyway. It must be that green blood that gives them away every time.

Did you know that Capiz has an annual aswang festival now?

Ray

stevjulietb · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:56:35 AM »

Guys, Raqual just gave us amunition to fight tampo...reverse psychology! Her husband must be smart guy!

Steveb

Howard · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:36:56 AM »

Ahhhhhhhh Yessssssss... The dreaded and feared "Tampo"

All I know is that when it comes to Tampo at my house, it usually means I did something dumb and deserve it

It's rare, but Gerlie will occasionally clam up and then I get Leather Necks list in order, ver batim

The biggest thing with her is when I yell. I don't think I'm yelling, but if she thinks I am yelling at her WATCH OUT! I try to explain that I come from a loud family and that yelling was just communication with my mother and I, but she's not a huge fan of it. She has so few rules, I try to accommodate. Sometimes it just happens though

I'm getting better.

With Gerlie any Tampo, justified or not - usually justified

- is followed by guilt and some quality makeup snuggling. I guess you only need to worry about Tampo if it seems your lady enjoys being mad at you. Luckily for me, mine doesn't

Bear... glad to hear they sprung ya brother! You better take care of yourself, we need you too!

Keep the faith!

H

Bob_S · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2009, 09:31:43 AM »

Quote from: Ray on January 13, 2009, 02:30:45 AM

I don't think you have to worry too much about the aswang here in the States. They don't issue visas to aswangs and they never pass the medical exam anyway. It must be that green blood that gives them away every time.

What with chupacabras, Big Foots, and assorted giant wild animal monsters, why would we need to import any more foreign monsters?

evoltnvii · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2009, 06:02:17 PM »

:Dwtf they are importing chupacabras now!!!! now i need to lojack my goat

Dave H · « **Reply #39 on:** January 15, 2009, 04:17:30 PM »

Quote from: evoltnvii on January 14, 2009, 06:02:17 PM

:Dwtf they are importing chupacabras now!!!! now i need to lojack my goat

Hey evoltnvii,

Very true! There are many chupacabras in my area! I hope we don't run out of goats!

Dave

Dave H · « **Reply #40 on:** January 15, 2009, 04:21:05 PM »

Quote from: Howard on January 13, 2009, 08:36:56 AM

The biggest thing with her is when I yell. I don't think I'm yelling, but if she thinks I am yelling at her WATCH OUT! I try to explain that I come from a loud family and that yelling was just communication with my mother and I, but she's not a huge fan of it. She has so few rules, I try to accommodate. Sometimes it just happens though I'm getting better.

Keep the faith!

H

Hi H,

We must be related!

D

piglett · « **Reply #41 on:** January 15, 2009, 05:42:25 PM »

Quote from: Dave H on January 15, 2009, 04:21:05 PM

Hi H,

We must be related!

D

you must be my brother from another mother

i am always told that i am loud

but i don't think i am loud at all

Dave H · « **Reply #42 on:** January 15, 2009, 06:52:34 PM »

Quote from: piglett on January 15, 2009, 05:42:25 PM

you must be my brother from another mother
i am always told that i am loud
but i don't think i am loud at all

Hey piglett,

Maybe!

I walk into an Asian restaurant and hear myself talking and no one else. I go into a Spanish restaurant and can't hear my own thoughts!

Dave

Bear · « **Reply #43 on:** January 15, 2009, 07:16:09 PM »

It must be a common characteristic of 'we' who become AW haters. To be loud. Probably because it was the only way we could hear ourselves in 'discussions' with the 'ex'.

The Bear Family

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