The Value of Marriage ...

[fathertime]

There seems to always be a chuckle, or disagreement, certainly and always a "right way" in your thinking. You are a black and white kind of thinker, with little perception of, or tolerance for, shades of grey.  I generally agree with our uncharacteristic about young and old in the USA. 

I see, however, that you do not recognize any changes, and when me or others suggests them, you see such things only as complaining.  It is part of your dismissive, I know everything attitude.  (and, of course, your universal contempt for me).

Why however, do you say: 
"
Are you not married to a younger woman?  Is she somehow not affected by this "dysfunction"?   Is this a result of dysfunction shield a temporary thing, or do you expect her to toss you aside in a few years when she more fully transitions - since that is the normal / non-dysfuctional thing to do?

Oh come on now zon, don’t be so fussy now that you gave up on ignore mode, who said I have a ‘universal’ theory or a contempt for you?  I just enjoy dismissing and shooting arrows through some of your bullshyt! 
I guess you are just trying to preserve your self-esteem and embarrassment by saying that it was the American women that changed and forced you to search abroad.  I’m sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you are nearly 50, and that has taken you outta the American market for the vast majority of the good looking ladies. 


Generally speaking, a somewhat older man can do much better in the age/looks dept. by going to Colombia or other nations.  I find it humorous when men try to cover that up, and bullshyt like they could pull the same caliber of woman in the USA.  The fact is that younger  ladies from abroad often can/will fall for us older gasbags in the process of trying to better their circumstances.   That doesn't have to be temporary, although it can be if it is not a good match.  Many of these ladies are dysfunction  free, (drug use/psych probs/etc).


It is just silly delusional pretenders that actually think they are entitled to near perfection in the states or abroad that find themselves single and looking. It seems to me that you have been having a tough time adapting to your place on the marital food chain.  Hey nobody says you HAVE to get married though!   
Fathertime! 

[adventuro3]

I guess I could not help responding.  Have been "lurker" on this site since about 2002.  I knew Pete from Cali and had sad experience of attending his wake.  I had lived in Colombia about eight years, with going back to  take fcare of business a few months every year.  I was in a great relationship with a Calena that lasted almosst the eight years.  I guess some things never last forever.  Anyway, I digress!  I recently was in a bar in San diego that I like to go to in the afternoons when it is not  full of young "surfer "  guys.  I have always known about the "age difference" attitud in the states and I have no problem with that.  But I did not know it was so "extreme".  The young attractive bar tender , probably in her twenties, was chatting with two other young women sitting at the bar.  She was saying that she had a girlfriend, 24, that was dating a much older man.  She said her friend was only doing it because the guy was rich and buying her just about everything her heart desired.  But, as the two other young women were agreeing how "gross" that is to date such an "old fart", that maybe it was okay as long as he was buying her alot of expensive stuff.  The bar tender said she was only doing it for awhile for the money even though the"old fart" thought there was long term relationship potential and maybe even marriage.  They all laughed that the old guy would even imagine that this girl would be seriously interested in him!!!  The "old rich fart"................was 34 years old!!!!  ......and the two young women sitting at the bar were a "bit" overweight.........   I had been thinking the old guy was 50 or 60 or something.............34!!!! just how things are, at least in San Diego.

[fathertime]

I guess I could not help responding.  Have been "lurker" on this site since about 2002.  I knew Pete from Cali and had sad experience of attending his wake.  I had lived in Colombia about eight years, with going back to  take fcare of business a few months every year.  I was in a great relationship with a Calena that lasted almosst the eight years.  I guess some things never last forever.  Anyway, I digress!  I recently was in a bar in San diego that I like to go to in the afternoons when it is not  full of young "surfer "  guys.  I have always known about the "age difference" attitud in the states and I have no problem with that.  But I did not know it was so "extreme".  The young attractive bar tender , probably in her twenties, was chatting with two other young women sitting at the bar.  She was saying that she had a girlfriend, 24, that was dating a much older man.  She said her friend was only doing it because the guy was rich and buying her just about everything her heart desired.  But, as the two other young women were agreeing how "gross" that is to date such an "old fart", that maybe it was okay as long as he was buying her alot of expensive stuff.  The bar tender said she was only doing it for awhile for the money even though the"old fart" thought there was long term relationship potential and maybe even marriage.  They all laughed that the old guy would even imagine that this girl would be seriously interested in him!!!  The "old rich fart"................was 34 years old!!!!  ......and the two young women sitting at the bar were a "bit" overweight.........   I had been thinking the old guy was 50 or 60 or something.............34!!!! just how things are, at least in San Diego.

That is pretty humorous adventuro.


I had lunch with another member here in one of those beachside San Diego beach bars with our wives.  Lots of attractive young babes everywhere and young 'surfer guys' scoping them too.  That is how it usually is I guess, 20-25 years ago I was one of them guys. 




I stayed with Pete in Cali just a few months before he passed away.  He was a great host and I enjoyed talking with him that week.


Fathertime! 

[Zon]

They all laughed that the old guy would even imagine that this girl would be seriously interested in him!!!  The "old rich fart"................was 34 years old!!!!  ......and the two young women sitting at the bar were a "bit" overweight.........   I had been thinking the old guy was 50 or 60 or something.............34!!!! just how things are, at least in San Diego.

AMAZING - but true.   


Again, for those who are interested in noticing current societal trends and change ... many young, hot women that do not need money or protection prefer other hot, young women nowadays.  It has become something more than a one time exploration, more than a fad.

[beulah]

AMAZING - but true.   

Of course it is true and why you find it to be amazing, is amazing.

My daughter is away finishing her college.  When I visit her she is hanging around with her friends which are young men and women.  I am also friends with her on facebook and see the pictures that she posts publicly. I have never seen her pal'ing around with anyone over maybe 25 or thereabouts, she is 22.  A man that is 34 would be completely different and would stand out as being old.  Not amazing as you said.   

[mambocowboy]

I guess I could not help responding.  Have been "lurker" on this site since about 2002.  I knew Pete from Cali and had sad experience of attending his wake.  I had lived in Colombia about eight years, with going back to  take fcare of business a few months every year.  I was in a great relationship with a Calena that lasted almosst the eight years.  I guess some things never last forever.  Anyway, I digress!  I recently was in a bar in San diego that I like to go to in the afternoons when it is not  full of young "surfer "  guys.  I have always known about the "age difference" attitud in the states and I have no problem with that.  But I did not know it was so "extreme".  The young attractive bar tender , probably in her twenties, was chatting with two other young women sitting at the bar.  She was saying that she had a girlfriend, 24, that was dating a much older man.  She said her friend was only doing it because the guy was rich and buying her just about everything her heart desired.  But, as the two other young women were agreeing how "gross" that is to date such an "old fart", that maybe it was okay as long as he was buying her alot of expensive stuff.  The bar tender said she was only doing it for awhile for the money even though the"old fart" thought there was long term relationship potential and maybe even marriage.  They all laughed that the old guy would even imagine that this girl would be seriously interested in him!!!  The "old rich fart"................was 34 years old!!!!  ......and the two young women sitting at the bar were a "bit" overweight.........   I had been thinking the old guy was 50 or 60 or something.............34!!!! just how things are, at least in San Diego.

That's classic man. I'm guessing that was in Pacific Beach? I've lived in San Diego from the age of 31 to now age 42, and can confirm that while the women are plenty attractive they are also plenty stuck up and hung up on the age thing. My Colombiana wife is 31 but looks younger, so the looks we get in public are pretty comical...

[adventuro3]

pacific beach it was!!!

[mambocowboy]

In the US, there is a limited supply of 20 somethings that are going to be OK with having a spouse 20 years older, the supply is VERY limited if you are not particularly outstanding (rich, high profile)…it Is even WAY more limited when you are talking about beautiful ladies. Most young women are dating people close to their own age and if you are 40-50 years old you are INVISIBLE.  There are a % of dysfunctional ladies (on some level) that might take an interest though, but  not many men want that. 

I think it is good that young men go abroad also.  There has ALWAYS been a % of young men that don’t find what they want in a woman, or don’t compete well.  It is in recent years that the internet and international dating sites, and perhaps more acceptance of the practice of going abroad has opened up the possibility for younger people to do this. 
 I chuckle at all the complaints about how ‘women changed’.  They haven’t changed that much, but the guys doing the complaining have…they got OLD and are no longer in the young man’s game.  In the international market these men are, so why not take advantage and get what you want? 

Fathertime! 

Good point FT. Most of us are invisible after 40, except when we're out with our hot Colombiana wives,jaja...

[A_Thomas]

 Actually women did change, so did men.


 Maybe I said it here, or somewhere else; Women now (since the 1980's) require more than you just being a man and having a paycheck.


 They are looking for activity partners too... This means sharing common interest, when in years past that didn't seem that important but not shocking (at least not to me) when divorced happen after the children were grown and out of the house.


 One common passionate interest seems to keep couples bonded. I am a big time racing fan and divorce is something you don't find that often with the racing community. Sure it happens and its usually very expensive (for the driver or team owners) but all too often couples have been together for decades...


 I find most people don't do anything terribly interesting and leisure time is mostly having the TV stare at you.


 I do agree with FT that most 20something women in Western Culture are not interested in men more than 5, maybe 8 years older than them. I am not quite sure why, but I bet it has something to do with the negativity around older women calling out older men and younger women for dating/marrying each other. This likely has to do with older women (over 30) have had it with being put out to pasture...


 This also has to do (this has changed....) with women over 30 being first time partners. This has exploded since the 1980's as more women go to college and get degrees. They then want to establish themselves, that delays life changing decisions like having children and getting married until they are around 28. After wading through the douche bags, serial daters and other so-called "Alpha Males" if she's lucky by 32-33 she might have found somebody who is likely a little bit older, say 36-40 to marry.


 First child comes at 34-35 and those statistics have doubled since 2000.


 This is what has changed and changed the dating dynamics, likely for good.


 

[SkyNorth]

Things have changed for the Better?   I would disagree.

Racing is nothing but a HO festival.  I worked for the largest distributor of tobacco products east of the Mississippi and family still does.  If you can remember the Winston Cup, and have been around many social events in Drag racing, Nascar, CART, Indy, and some Formula 1.  I have never seen anything stable there that I would say "Gosh, they have a perfect Marriage".  More like "WOW, that chicks all over him while his wife is hooking up with another driver."

WHY are ONLY the guys  "the douche bags, serial daters and other so-called "Alpha Males" if she's lucky" I would say this it takes 2 to Tango.  I have found whatever one is "guilty of",  the party has a negative in that same column, and is just as guilty.

 
I guess my point is GUYS...It seems to me a lot of the new posters, have a very feminine flavor to them.  Have we been invaded by the Snapper Brigade?

[V_Man]

I also think that both western women and men have changed.
I think this is why western women have so much less to offer the western man.

I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone here but I avoided women in Colombia who were in their 20s. I had plenty of offers but they had to be at least in their late twenties for me.
Also my personal view is that it is not wise to have a 20 year difference in a relationship regardless of where she comes from. I don't judge but I think this whole thing is hard enough without that issue. I think guys that go with a 20 year age gap should expect a rocky road.

In addition to all that, I think that my now wife was the oldest Colombian woman that I talked tried to develop anything with. So for me I can say hand on heart, age was not the main criteria for me.

So yeah while I agree that men can find a younger and probably more attractive woman in Colombia and other countries, this wasn't the prime motivator to me.  I think I'm not alone in this.
Likewise I don't deny it is a factor and I get that you are saying it is silly to deny it.

[SkyNorth]

Vman...I hear ya.  The last 3 years I have dated AW from 28-50 YO.  "What a Trip that was" several that were pretty cool.  Never found a package close to complete. 

 
The last lady from Colombia I dated was 37 a good gal but not the one.  I am getting closer.  A relationship with a very young Latina?  I only could imagine, the trouble, might be a bit taxing.  I am not sure why a 40 YO wants a 22 YO.

[Zon]

Regarding the question of if there are societal changes,  gender roles and the institution of marriage ( a topic that some seem to laugh at and dismiss as complaining).

young women were agreeing how "gross" that is to date such an "old fart", that maybe it was okay as long as he was buying her alot of expensive stuff.  The bar tender said she was only doing it for awhile for the money even though the"old fart" thought there was long term relationship potential and maybe even marriage.  They all laughed that the old guy would even imagine that this girl would be seriously interested in him!!!  The "old rich fart"................was 34 years old!!!!

So, nowadays a 34 year old guy is a fart old fart to 24 year old women - and that does NOT seem peculiar? How about the fact that a 34 year old woman is seen as "more sexy" (cougar) now than 20 - 50 years ago?   Does that turn on any lights to the "it has always been the same" crowd here?

[beulah]

Regarding the question of if there are societal changes,  gender roles and the institution of marriage ( a topic that some seem to laugh at and dismiss as complaining).
So, nowadays a 34 year old guy is a fart old fart to 24 year old women - and that does NOT seem peculiar? ?   

I have already explained to you that a man that is 34 would seem old to a college girl that is used to being around young men her own age.  This is not a hard concept to understand unless you are intentionally blinding yourself.

[V_Man]

I think it is rediculous to claim that western women view men and fathers the same way as they always have. Look at how fathers are protrayed in living rooms every night of the week,


http://youtu.be/GuZLAdacM1M

[fathertime]

Regarding the question of if there are societal changes,  gender roles and the institution of marriage ( a topic that some seem to laugh at and dismiss as complaining).
So, nowadays a 34 year old guy is a fart old fart to 24 year old women - and that does NOT seem peculiar? How about the fact that a 34 year old woman is seen as "more sexy" (cougar) now than 20 - 50 years ago?   Does that turn on any lights to the "it has always been the same" crowd here?

Well Zon, you ARE complaining and yes I get a chuckle about it.   Obviously you are unhappy that you are in an age bracket which younger American women exclude from serious consideration in terms of marriage.

As gradual changes do occur, if you are unable to adapt then YOU LOSE!  Women in America have more been granted more options and since I have teenage daughters I'm happy they will have a world of directions they can take.  That has not happened in much of the rest of the world, so as an older gasbag I was still free to pluck a young beauty from abroad and turn it into a win-win.  You like a steaming old person that is still stuck on crying/complaining that 'things aren't the same'!   You see it is YOU that hasn't adapted and that is living in the past, not me or practically anybody else on this site!  If you want to spend your time alone 'reading 'return to kings'happy crappy then obviously you are free to do so.  Meanwhile I will continue to chuckle at your groanings of how things aren't the same as they were in the 1950's  jajaj

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Good point FT. Most of us are invisible after 40, except when we're out with our hot Colombiana wives,jaja...

Well Mambo, I could see the writing on the wall and was able to adapt and find me a beautiful woman from abroad.  I feel pretty good about that as I'm sure you do.  No doubt we get some attention at times when we are out and about, to this point it has never been anything but a positive! 


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Also my personal view is that it is not wise to have a 20 year difference in a relationship regardless of where she comes from. I don't judge but I think this whole thing is hard enough without that issue. I think guys that go with a 20 year age gap should expect a rocky road.

In addition to all that, I think that my now wife was the oldest Colombian woman that I talked tried to develop anything with. So for me I can say hand on heart, age was not the main criteria for me.

So yeah while I agree that men can find a younger and probably more attractive woman in Colombia and other countries, this wasn't the prime motivator to me.  I think I'm not alone in this.
Likewise I don't deny it is a factor and I get that you are saying it is silly to deny it.

You are in all likelihood deluded if you don't think you are in for a rocky road yourself!  From the little you have posted it already sounds rockier than the road I had at that very early point in the relationship. 


I wouldn't worry about the rocky times though, I rather enjoy them actually, except for things which were truly outta our hands. Those things are sucko.


Now I think YOU are going to be the primary factor in whether you succeed or fail, and a part of YOU is the choice you make in a spouse.   I do agree a slightly older woman gives you overall better odds (always dependent on the individuals involved).  Based on the overall tenure of your posts it seems you attitude gives you a pretty good shot at making this work, but expect more bumps than you expect!




Fathertime! 

[Zon]

I think it is rediculous to claim that western women view men and fathers the same way as they always have. Look at how fathers are protrayed in living rooms every night of the week,


http://youtu.be/GuZLAdacM1M

That video! THIS IS THE STUFF THAT MOTIVATED ME to continue to live and date outside the USA.  The women of other countries are a plus of course, but the status of being a man is much better elsewhere and that counts for alot.

[Alabamaboy!]

I guess I could not help responding.  Have been "lurker" on this site since about 2002.  I knew Pete from Cali and had sad experience of attending his wake.  I had lived in Colombia about eight years, with going back to  take fcare of business a few months every year.  I was in a great relationship with a Calena that lasted almosst the eight years.  I guess some things never last forever.  Anyway, I digress!  I recently was in a bar in San diego that I like to go to in the afternoons when it is not  full of young "surfer "  guys.  I have always known about the "age difference" attitud in the states and I have no problem with that.  But I did not know it was so "extreme".  The young attractive bar tender , probably in her twenties, was chatting with two other young women sitting at the bar.  She was saying that she had a girlfriend, 24, that was dating a much older man.  She said her friend was only doing it because the guy was rich and buying her just about everything her heart desired.  But, as the two other young women were agreeing how "gross" that is to date such an "old fart", that maybe it was okay as long as he was buying her alot of expensive stuff.  The bar tender said she was only doing it for awhile for the money even though the"old fart" thought there was long term relationship potential and maybe even marriage.  They all laughed that the old guy would even imagine that this girl would be seriously interested in him!!!  The "old rich fart"................was 34 years old!!!!  ......and the two young women sitting at the bar were a "bit" overweight.........   I had been thinking the old guy was 50 or 60 or something.............34!!!! just how things are, at least in San Diego.

That's classic man. I'm guessing that was in Pacific Beach? I've lived in San Diego from the age of 31 to now age 42, and can confirm that while the women are plenty attractive they are also plenty stuck up and hung up on the age thing. My Colombiana wife is 31 but looks younger, so the looks we get in public are pretty comical...

Just came back from there this weekend. Got my hair cut and the 35 or so year old gal cutting my hair was obviously flirting, but seemed kind of frustrated that I was not really responding. She then started asking about my personal life and why I was so happy and satisfied with my life. After I told her about my beautiful, loving 26 year old wife, my handsome 10 month old baby, my other 2 content kids, she just said "Oh", and did not talk much after that. I am 46. And all is well.

But I am not cocky enough to think that the relationship could not crash and burn in the future, who knows? But for right now I still have a lot of gas in the tank and life is very, very good.

[beulah]

Just came back from there this weekend. Got my hair cut and the 35 or so year old gal cutting my hair was obviously flirting, but seemed kind of frustrated that I was not really responding. She then started asking about my personal life and why I was so happy and satisfied with my life. After I told her about my beautiful, loving 26 year old wife, my handsome 10 month old baby, my other 2 content kids, she just said "Oh", and did not talk much after that. I am 46. And all is well.

But I am not cocky enough to think that the relationship could not crash and burn in the future, who knows? But for right now I still have a lot of gas in th tank and life is very, very good.

That is a very good story Alabamaboy.  I think yours Mambocowboys and FatherTimes stories are very useful for me to hear through all the other noise.  I'm also 45 and hearing about your marriages to young attractive ladies is evidence that the foreign bride hunt is not a fantasy.

[V_Man]

You are in all likelihood deluded if you don't think you are in for a rocky road yourself!  From the little you have posted it already sounds rockier than the road I had at that very early point in the relationship. 


I wouldn't worry about the rocky times though, I rather enjoy them actually, except for things which were truly outta our hands. Those things are sucko.


Now I think YOU are going to be the primary factor in whether you succeed or fail, and a part of YOU is the choice you make in a spouse.   I do agree a slightly older woman gives you overall better odds (always dependent on the individuals involved).  Based on the overall tenure of your posts it seems you attitude gives you a pretty good shot at making this work, but expect more bumps than you expect!




Fathertime!

I hear you Fathertime. I agree with you 100 percent on this.
Cross your fingers for me. I may need a little dose of good luck as well a good attitude!!!

[Fuzzyone]

I hear you Fathertime. I agree with you 100 percent on this.
Cross your fingers for me. I may need a little dose of good luck as well a good attitude!!!

  I don'y really think it will be good luck, I think more a positive attitude. You will not believe how things turn out when you get down there, keep your eyes open and think with the big head and not the little like one member here does.

[V_Man]

  I don'y really think it will be good luck, I think more a positive attitude. You will not believe how things turn out when you get down there, keep your eyes open and think with the big head and not the little like one member here does.

Get down where?

[Ray]

Get down where?

 
Antarctica??