Crossing the Line??

[CartagenaPapito]

I have been chatting and talking with a girl that I have (had) a lot of interest in Bogota and I was going to meet her in Bogota. She knew that I had planned first on going to Cartagena for a vacaction and that I had invited her to meet me there but she said that her parents would not allow it. (she is 23) So the plan was for me to come back through Bogota before returning home and spending time with her there.
Well tonight she told me she thinks she can convince her parents to let her meet me there, but that she would need me to buy her airline ticket. I told her that was not a problem and I would arrange for her to pick it up at the counter in Bogota. ( I have done this before in Colombia and not a problemo)
Then she told me that since she is a student and doesn't work she would need the money for going to and from her house to the airport.
This raised a minor red flag but I told her that it was not a problem and that I would give her the money in Cartagena when I saw her ( Rule #1 never send money to a girl you have never yet met in person)
Smelling blood she then told me that she does not have a bathing suit since Bogota has no beach and warm weather and that I would need to buy her a bathing suit in Cartagena. Red flag # 2 was raised and I questioned her why she did not own a bathing suit. (what no pools in Bogota, no sunbathing, tanning salons etc...) She said no.
Then came the deal breaker, she said that she had none of the right clothes for Cartagena and that I would have to buy her basically a summer wardrobe. (what part of no does she not understand) Well the full hurricane warnings were all raised and I told her none to subtley "no can do"
I do have to spell out here that we did discuss that if things did go really great in Cartagena we would be novia/novio with the intent for potential marriage down the road after future visits and meeting her family etc. Perhaps I am naive but I did not know this meant open season on the gringo.
(This is the reason why I always go away with a Plan B with lots of backups in case the bottom falls out)
To make a long story short, after I gave her the good news, she got pissed and abruptly ended our chat by saying that I should find a professional girl who has her own money and if I am ever in Bogota give her a call. Yea right. (imagine what that call would cost)
Anyways, is this an out and out gold digger or have others seen this kind of behaviour before.
Gracias por todos

[Ricky]

... in response to Crossing the Line??, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 23, 2004

Do did exactly as you felt you should. Bravo!

Now...if you have not been to Cartagena before
(especially Bocagrande) do not even consider taking a
women you don't know to this city.

You will literally trip over yourself and these lovelies.
They are more numerous in Cartagena (especially at
night) than you can imagine.

Go and enjoy all that Cartagena has to offer. You can
always hook up with some gringos in the many clubs in
the Bocagrande district and "laugh up" your situation.

Trust me...you won't have a dull time without the
immature little lady you referred to in your post. One
night in Cartagena and you won't even remember her
name.

[CartagenaPapito]

... in response to Re: Crossing the Line??, posted by Ricky on Dec 26, 2004

Thanks Ricky but you are preaching to the choir. I head over to Cartagena regularly.

[Pete E]

... in response to Crossing the Line??, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 23, 2004

Nothing she asked for seemed too unreasonable,except for the full wardrobe.Maybe a swim suit,a copule of tops and shorts.
BUT - this is a woman you have never met.How do you know you even want to spend that much time with her in Cartagena?You are way out ahead of yourself.Meet them first,then maybe pay for a vacation.And if you are going to spend a vacation with a woman you should already be having sex,or it could be very frustrating.And you never even met her.Cart WAY out in front of horse here.

Pete

[Jeff S]

... in response to Crossing the Line??, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 23, 2004

There's a reason why Colombia (and Ukraine & the Philippines) are the most popular MOB spots - because they're among the poorest countries, rife with governmental corruption. The ladies there are expecting a better life, and to a woman that means nice clothes and not having to ride on dusty busses sitting next to old men holding chickens. Sure they're looking for a bit of a sugar daddy. Outside of Paris Hilton, very few heterosexual women on the planet aren't. Before you pipe in with "Oh no, my novia just wanted someone to love her who wouldn't cheat" Yeah, that's what she says to your face. I'll bet you tell her you fell in love with her smile and personality, but in reality, if she had a B cup instead of a D, cellulite thighs, and and a hairy mole on her nose, you'd be telling someone else how they're your one-and-only soulmate, instead of her.

Is this some evil gold digger out looking for a sugar daddy to swap sexual favors for clothes and jewlery? Maybe, and maybe not. Yes, she's a bit brasher than many, and probably younger and less experienced with gringos, too. No one wants to feel like they're being used as an ATM, even though in reality they are to one degree or another. Am I? Sure, I'm the sole breadwinner in my family. If my wife pines for a Cartier watch on her birthday, I buy it for her. Not because I'm her sugar daddy and will pay off that evening, but because we can afford it, it makes her happy and feel special, she puts in plenty of effort day after day, and just because that's why I work hard, to afford some of the niceties over and above the necessities of life.

Anyway, had I been in a situation like that, I'd have done exactly as papito did, blow her off. More because of her immature, whiney insistence, rather than because she may have expected me to buy her a new wardrobe. That being said, if she hadn't have whined and showed up sans nice bathing suit and appropriate clothes, I'd have taken her shopping for resort wear and bathing suits and probably spent as much money on her as she'd hoped. It's just a whole lot more fun when you come up with the idea yourself than when you get nagged into doing it. As someone below suggested, some men have a higher tolerance for this kind of behaviour than others. Let me add to that with: women expect you to provide for them to one degree or another - it's all a matter of degree.

Just my, never to be humble, opinion.

- Jeff

[AnzoNevis]

... in response to Let's not be coy here., posted by Jeff S on Dec 24, 2004

nothing to add

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to Crossing the Line??, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 23, 2004

I think you answered your own question and handled the whole thing pretty well.

[Dr Aaron]

... in response to Crossing the Line??, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 23, 2004

Based on you admitting that you two never met in person, something else doesn't make sense.

The cost for you to fly to Bogota from Cartagena and spend one night in a hotel just to meet this girl to see if there is any possibility would be much less than you paying for her to meet you in Cartagena on a whim, paying for her hotel for multiple nights in a tourist city, and other items (food, drinks, bathing suit, etc.).

So, for some reason you were willing to pay for the more expensive alternative while knowing all along that there was a possibility that it might not work out.

[CartagenaPapito]

... in response to Something else that doesn't make sense., posted by Dr Aaron on Dec 23, 2004

Doesn't cost me any extra to stop off in Bogota versus going home directly from Caratgena,
Did the same thing in September with my ticket.
Correct me if I am wrong fella, but you seem to be pretty bent out of shape by my post. Seems to me you are either looking to pick a fight or maybe the Bogota gal is your niece.
Either way buddy, have an eggnog with rum and relax. It is Christmas fella. Put down the blow torch. The muffler on the 84 Chevy can wait and find a life.
Cheers!

[Dr Aaron]

... in response to Crossing the Line??, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 23, 2004

[This message has been edited by Dr Aaron]

from reading your post, i think the girl is not totally to blame. i think from your initial approach, the relationship wasn't going to go anywhere, and you also initially set the context for her requesting a substantial amount of money from you.

things that you did wrong:

1.) if you were really interested in this girl, why didn't you make a priority to visit her first, then keep your plans for cartagena as a back up? imagine what she was thinking: "who is the mamacita in cartagena?" "why is he going there?"

2.) you invited her to go on a trip to a stellar tourist vacation city, by colombian standards, and you haven't even met her in person yet !!! cartagena by car is probably over 14 hours, and buy plane probably 2 to 3. in my opinion, since you invited her, you should pay for all her expenses, including taxis, and even a bathing suit. most colombian boyfriends cannot afford these kinds of thrills, and you essentially made the impression that you were loaded with money, and probably interested in her enough to pay for what she needed during the stay. the reason why she asked you for the stuff is because she thought you could and would pay for it. and yes, she could have been a little too greedy (a gold digger), but I DON'T BELIEVE YOUR CLAIMS THAT SHE REQUESTED A SUMMER WARDROBE. I THINK YOU ARE EXAGGERATING, and she probably requested a pair of sandals, shirt, and shorts OR pants; maybe even a pair of shoes. which all meet criteria for things for a trip in cartagena. given that she is from bogota, i highly doubt that she has the kind of clothing that would allow her to feel comfortable in the climate of cartagena, which is one of the warmest places i've ever been too. however, the bottom line is you initially set the context for her to ask you for this stuff.

also, in my opinion, your invitation was outrageous, given the fact that you two never met in person. i have some questions. what if she would have gone, and you two met in person? what if you didn't like her? would you just not spend time with her? would you send her back? how do you think she would feel? on the other hand, what if she wouldn't have liked you? and said you could only be friends, or just didn't spend time with you? would you feel hurt? would you call her a player? this would have been a risky endeavour on both your parts. neither of you two really know each other, and what your histories are. also, you could have wasted a considerable amount of money on a whim, like about $500.00 us thrown down the sewer.

3.) lastly, you made the comment about it being an "open season on a gringo." i totally believe that your perspective is skewed because if this would have gone through, the girl would have ultimately been placed in a more vulnerable position by being away from home in a different city, and most likely dependent on you for the time being. so, consequently, she could have felt it was an "open season on the colombiana." even though she accepted your invitation, which would have been dumb on her part, i wouldn't consider her a bad girl because the response of her parents indicates that she comes from a good family; the girl is studying; doesn't have a job, but she didn't want to ask money from her parents, which is highly considerate for them. believe me, a bad girl in colombia would make it her duty to find just enough money to meet a gringo in cartagena some way or another. so, her error of judgement is probably due to a lack of experience, as well as poor reasoning. however, in the end, she told you right. since you offered, then you should pay, or find a girl that can pay her own way.

honestly, i think you should re-evaluate the kind of woman you're looking for, and your approaches toward meeting women. and i think the young lady should wait until she finishes her studies, and mature a little more before she decides to meet a gringo for marriage.  

i hope you learn from this experience.

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to i think your perspective is kind of skew..., posted by Dr Aaron on Dec 23, 2004

I hope he learns from this experience too. I made the same mistake and boy am I paying for it now! I ended up marrying this chick and she has made me happier than any man has a right to be. What did I do wrong? Before I had even met her in person I invited her to go to San Andres with me because like all normal Americans I was paranoid and afraid of Colombia. So we end up going to San Andres and as a result I ended up agreeing to marry her. God, what an idiot. So, she's gorgeous, a lady in the street and a ...., a wonderful homemaker etc. She greets me at the door when I come home with a kiss and a smile and then cooks me dinner and sits down with me while I eat. God, I'm stupid. I should have followed your advice. Then I could be at home alone and miserable. I hope others can learn from my mistakes. Say hello to Pablo the taxi driver and the two millionaire gringos in Medellin who cannot get laid.

[Dr Aaron]

... in response to Re: i think your perspective is kind of ..., posted by utopiacowboy on Dec 23, 2004

[This message has been edited by Dr Aaron]

were lucky as hell.

again, let me point out that i'm not trying to offend anyone. also, i'm happy things are good for you and your spouse.

however, you're justifying your approach and criticizing my opinion only based on hindsight from your experience. did you ever hear the cliche: "hindsight is 20/20?"

also, you never mentioned if you paid her way to san andres. she could have paid her own way. so, we have no idea if you invested money upfront without ever meeting this lady in person.

let's assume you did pay. paid for the plane ticket, all hotel accommodations, all taxis, food, drinks, etc. without meeting this woman in person the first time. does that seem smart? especially with realizing that for a first time meeting, there's a high probability that either or neither of you two would want to pursue the relationship any further. also, i'm amazed that you were so trusting (or i should say naive) to put total faith in someone you never met to decide to spend such kind of money on them.

it's just not smart, and strikes me as kind of desperate on your part.

however, taking what you say at face value about your current relationship, i wouldn't worry about this issue now. you have a great relationship, and you should focus on the "here and now" and plan for the future.

cheers

[slojas1]

... in response to i think your reasoning is misguided too,..., posted by Dr Aaron on Dec 24, 2004

You are just as offensive now as you were in the past. Your 'DR' title in your handle shows you really haven't learned from your past and you somehow feel you will be given a bit of credibility by including it. You couldn't be further from the truth and your money would have been better spent on social graces and charm school. You still have no social skills and you feel your education will somehow make up for your lack of fitting in. You sit back and throw missles but you will be the lonely one this holiday season. I'm sure you won't get that point!  If you can't change that horrible character flaw (see flaws in others but never yourself), you will be forever doomed to be the unimpressive jerk that you so ably portray. It is always easier to look down on others than to look in the mirror and change that ugly reflection, isn't it Dr Man?
Happy holidays,
JSlo

[Dr Aaron]

... in response to Re: i think your reasoning is misguided ..., posted by slojas1 on Dec 24, 2004

this board is about sharing information and expressing opinions in a constructive manner. Exchange about cultural issues are a plus, but not essential.

The original poster started the thread asking for opinions about his most recent experience. I offered my opinion without slandering him. My post was very assertive and critical of his approach, but I never made any personal attack against him.

My professional title has nothing to do with the matter. Just because I have a doctoral degree does not give me the moral high ground on any issue; and I would like to point out that some of the most brightest and successful people I know, have never been to college. The only reason why I include my professional title in my handle is because I have one or two friends that post on here, and I haven't been in touch with them. I wanted to let them know I finished my degree; and I'm proud of it.

Secondly, I didn't pay any money for college. I had grants, scholarships, and fellowships; but, that's beside the point.

Third, you are right that I am spending the holidays alone this christmas; mainly because I am working on 4 publications that I would like to send out by the end of February 2005.  

The reason why I was banned before is because I made many personal attacks on posters, regardless if they were based on proper reasoning or not. I've learned my lesson not to personally attack people. There's no need to do that.

Take Care.

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to i think your reasoning is misguided too,..., posted by Dr Aaron on Dec 24, 2004

I agree with you - I was a total moron. I must have been completely desperate, a real loser, to do what I did. Like I said, I am paying the price for my stupidity now. I am incredibly happy with this woman - it's like I have died and gone to heaven. I have been married to her for a year and a half now and we are like a couple of lovebirds. I sure wish that I had never taken the kind of chance I took going to San Andres with this woman. All the rest of you guys out there, take Dr. Aaron's advice or else you may end up like me!