Brazil ups the ante

[Wasp]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3397183.stm

Let me ask those potential visitors to Brazil, would you accept a 9 hour wait at the airport?

I won't go where i'm not wanted. Take your dollars elsewhere.

[zack]

... in response to Brazil ups the ante, posted by Wasp on Jan 14, 2004

Do you have any comments about this? Are they upping the ante that much?  I'm just a neutral party and curious to hear your opinion.

Zack

[Cherinha]

... in response to Question for Cherinha..., posted by zack on Jan 14, 2004

When I believe a subject has gotton out of hand, OR that the discussion would not lead to a positive light, I usually do not stear in that direction.

While I believe strongly in many things that are happening between Brasil and the USA "political-wise", I will not comment on them at this time.

HOWEVER... to answer the question above in regards to the 9 hour wait.  Whether I was alone, or with my 3 young children, I would not want to wait 9 hours to go through customs after a 3 1/2 PLUS 9 1/2 hour flight from SLC to Sao Paulo.  

HOWEVER...  I have been by the SP GRU airport here, and the wait is not that.  Some have commented on a 35 minute to 3 hour wait, I'm sure there has been shorter or longer.  hahahaha... Sounds like when I was in line at the airport in Houston Texas in line for 3 1/2-4 hours after Sept. 11th happening.

There will ALWAYS be the percentage that do not welcome foreigners, or Americans!!!  Shocker!!!   But true...  (same for americans..)  But the feeling here that I see, and the reception that I get everywhere, is anything BUT cold, unfriendly, or revengeful.  The cold reception on this board is at many times,  MUCH colder than Brasil.  

The Brasilians have their own reasons, and opinions.  But the reception here is friendly, warm, and full carinhoso.

AND... btw... I didn't read that in any online ad, or newspaper, or highly aclaimed report.  I'm here.

[DavidMN]

... in response to Brazil ups the ante, posted by Wasp on Jan 14, 2004

I thought this subject was winding down and then BOOM, some pilot gets arrested for flipping Brazilians the bird while being photographed. I wonder if he's gonna' have a job when he gets back to the U.S.? Haha.
---------------------------------------
Brazil Arrests U.S. Pilot Over Gesture

By STAN LEHMAN
The Associated Press
Wednesday, January 14, 2004; 5:22 PM

SAO PAULO, Brazil - An American Airlines pilot was arrested by federal police Wednesday after making an obscene gesture when being photographed at the airport as part of a newly imposed entry requirement for U.S. citizens, federal police said.
 
Ten crewmembers from the airplane arriving from Miami were also detained, police said.

Brazil imposed requirements that Americans be fingerprinted and photographed at entry points in response the similar rules in the United States for citizens of Brazil and other countries whose citizens need visas to enter.

The pilot, Dale Robbin Hirsh, lifted his middle finger while undergoing the new security process, said Francisco Baltazar da Silva, chief of Sao Paulo's federal police.

The pilot was taken to a federal courthouse, where he could be charged with showing disrespect to authorities, a crime in Brazil punishable by between six months and two years in jail or a fine, da Silva said. He could also be deported without any further legal action.

American Airlines spokeswoman Martha Pantin said the incident was the result of a misunderstanding.

"The company apologizes to the Brazilian government, the airport authorities, the police or anyone else who may have perceived anything they believe to have been disrespectful," Pantin said.

The incident is the latest flap in growing diplomatic spat between Brazil and the United States.

The Brazilian requirement was first imposed at the order of the federal judge but on Monday it became the government's official policy, citing the diplomatic concept of "reciprocity."

On Monday, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva asked President Bush to drop the visa requirement for Brazilians entering the United States, while Brazil's Foreign Ministry said the requirement could lead to a souring between the two nations.

"Recent episodes, such as the new system of identification of travelers, create a negative climate in public opinion with inevitable political implications, which is not in the interest of the two countries," the ministry said.

But in Rio de Janeiro, tourism officials are trying to console American tourists arriving at the airport by treating them to samba music and dancers and giving them flowers, jewelry and T-shirts.

Brazil currently requires Americans to have visas to enter Brazil because of reciprocity.

[buster40]

... in response to Re: Brazil/he's goin' to the big house , posted by DavidMN on Jan 14, 2004

"American Airlines spokeswoman Martha Pantin said the incident was the result of a misunderstanding."

Maybe the pilot thought they wanted to print his middle finger too and was just making it more accesible for the government employee?  Seems reasonable to me?

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Brazil/he's goin' to the big house , posted by DavidMN on Jan 14, 2004

The pilot was taken to a federal courthouse, where he could be charged with showing disrespect to authorities, a crime in Brazil punishable by between six months and two years in jail or a fine.

They always told me: "Respect has to be earned."

Steve

[NightRaven]

... in response to Another good reason to stay out of Brazi..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Jan 14, 2004

Funny thing about respect. It has to be earned but it still has to be given as well. Fear on the other hand can be cultivated one way.
Back to work
Have Fun

[cancunhound]

... in response to Another good reason to stay out of Brazi..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Jan 14, 2004

It's real comforting to know your pilot is about to fly over the cookoo's nest

(I think I'd go with a Varig, TAM or VASP)

[thundernco]

... in response to Another good reason to stay out of Brazi..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Jan 14, 2004

does have to be earned.  I'd like to see what would happen to a foreign national if he acted in a similar fashion at one of our major ports of entry.  While I don't think that he would be taken and charged with a federal crime, I do believe that the subsequent actions would be significantly unpleasant not to mention probable revocation on his visa.  Punk idiots like that pilot that give us US travelers such a bad name around the world.      
-TNC

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Exactly, respect..., posted by thundernco on Jan 14, 2004

TNC

You wrote:

"While I don't think that he would be taken and charged with a federal crime, I do believe that the subsequent actions would be significantly unpleasant not to mention probable revocation on his visa."

I'll bet the pilot thinks that the subsequent actions he got were "significantly unpleasant" as well.  If I had to wait in line several hours I might be giving US travelers a bad name, too.  

Brazil is giving itself a bad name with their spiteful rule.  And they don't make it any better with stories like this one about the pilot.  Do you think people are rushing to reserve a flight to Rio after reading that.  

Steve

[thundernco]

... in response to Re: Exactly, respect..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Jan 14, 2004

My view is that it's the same inconvenience that I (my country) ask of them, so it doesn’t really bother me all that much.  The ethnocentrist view that I can ask something of you in my country but you cannot ask the same of me in yours seems completely absurd to me.  Reminds me of a friend that continues to travel to Cali looking for a wife; he is middle aged and raising his kids but he won’t accept anything less than a young, childless hottie.  Needless to say, he hasn’t had much luck and he’s clueless as to why.

Even with its limping economy, Brasil is still the largest economy in Latin America by far, and a very important partner to US trade and policy in the hemisphere; not only that, there are very few countries which send more tourists to the US than Brasil.  My point being that unless the negative relations between the US and Brasil improve, both countries will feel a significant impact.  

That said, we’ll have to agree to disagree.  Like I said previously, if you don't like it, simply don't go.  By the way, in my opinion, that pilot got what he deserved.  That’s the type of idiot you don’t want to take out drinking and dancing in Cali.  

Apologies on the length of this post. -TNC

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Wasp, DS2, et al, , posted by thundernco on Jan 14, 2004

No more ethnocentricism, please.

Steve

[burbuja2]

... in response to Re: Exactly, respect..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Jan 14, 2004

I was getting ready to go to Paradiz to party and just hang out with Little b, and then I read what happened to the AA pilot.   Now I think I'll spend my dinero on Bourbon Street this weekend.  BTW, Bambi sends her regards.

[thundernco]

... in response to Brazil ups the ante, posted by Wasp on Jan 14, 2004

Fine Wasp, don't go.  You have every right to decide where you travel and how you spend your money.  I posted at the end of the previous thread on this subject, and to briefly reiterate it won't dissuade me from traveling to Brasil.  Of course it will hurt their tourism industry somewhat, but I venture to say that they'll be ok in the long run.  We (USA) too are being hurt economically and academically by our new security measures:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A24116-2003Nov10¬Found=true  , but I'm confident that we’ll also be ok in the long run as long as we don’t become an isolationist country.  -TNC

[Wasp]

... in response to Re: Brazil ups the ante, posted by thundernco on Jan 14, 2004

Sure, there is a cost to our new security measures.

What do you think the cost would be of another 9-11 level attack?

How many terrorist attacks has Brazil suffered the last several years? It's just petty tit for tat posturing.
Hey if Lula wants to get into bed with Chavez and Castro go right ahead. I could not care less.