Brazil

[stefang]

This Brazil thing is really getting blown up but when you go to other countries you have to obey their laws and in Brazils case they have a reciprocating law so the pilot is at their mercy.

He should not feel to bad, if he pulled the same stunt in Singapore they would of caned him, and when they do you need about six months in a hospital for your buns to heal before you will be able to walk again.

In Iran they would probably just stick you out in the middle of the square and let the locals stone you.

Here is the problem with this stupid law. France has many Arabs that probably have French passports so we should require all foreigners to be fingerprinted and photograghed. This would never happen because the US would see a major backlash and Bush knows it so he goes after all the countries who don't have the ability to defend themsleves. If I was a terrorit I would just fly over to Mexico and cross over the border it can't be that hard we have 10 million Mexicans who have already done it.

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Brazil, posted by stefang on Jan 15, 2004

Merriam-Webster's online website http://www.m-w.com/ says:

Main Entry: Latin America
1 Spanish America & Brazil
2 all of the Americas S of the U.S.

Main Entry: Latin
1 a : of, relating to, or composed in Latin b : ROMANCE
2 : of or relating to Latium or the Latins
3 : of or relating to the part of the Catholic Church that until recently used a Latin rite and forms the patriarchate of the pope
4 : of or relating to the peoples or countries using Romance languages; specifically : of or relating to the peoples or countries of Latin America

Another dictionary said that Latin America includes the Spanish, Portuguese, and French speaking countries in the Americas.  That is interesting because French is also technically a Romance language.

The Romance languages are those that descended from Latin hence the name which is related to the word Rome. The five major contemporary Romance languages are French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian and Spanish.  Spanish is by far the largest.  It is also interesting to me that this list is dedicated to "romance" in some form or another.

Finally, while on the subject of languages I find the following estimates of languages spoken by the most people (Native speakers only):

Figures in millions
885 Mandarin (Chinese)
375 Hindi (India)
358 Spanish
347 English
211 Arabic
210 Bengali
178 Portuguese
165 Russian
125 Japanese
100 German
77 French

To me the biggest surprise in the list was Arabic, more than I thought.  If you're primary language is English and you are going to learn a second language and you live in the United States the one to learn is  Spanish.  Sorry Brazil.  Not much Portuguese being spoken in North America.

Steve

[DavidMN]

... in response to Brazil, posted by stefang on Jan 15, 2004

I agree that if a bad guy really wants to get into the U.S., Mexico and the border somewhere around BFE, North Dakota are probably easier choices.

Setting aside all the brouhaha for a moment, there IS some (maybe really small) chance that the reason Brazil didn't make the exclusion list is because of that region called the triangle or something like that. It's the remote area that borders Colombia and one other country; not only does the FARC move back and forth, but I've seen the occasional news blurb about some Arab groups there.

Drugs, money laundering, arms trafficking and terrorism all blend together. Large elements of Bolivian society want to revert to a pre-colonial coca growing paradise. Chavez and Castro egg them on. Lots of discontent and lots of risk in the region.

As I said before, these security procedures will improve and now that Brazil has the electronic fingerprint machines the waits are already much-reduced (poor planning on their part; probably could have saved themselves a black eye by getting the machines first).

Anyway, Steve said it well this a.m., "my head hurts." I'm retiring from the Brazil discussion for now.  ;-)

-David

[thundernco]

... in response to Re: Brazil, posted by DavidMN on Jan 15, 2004

and is well known within the Intel communities as a drug, money, and arms trafficking area as well as housing groups of Islamic terrorists. David was 100% correct on that part.  

I don't disagree with or am against our tightened security policies.  Rather, I'm of the mindset that Brasil has their own sovereign right to do the same with its policy of reciprocity just as we selectively do with others.  If it's truly terrorists we worry about, there are more terrorists entering the country through our European allies' borders than from Brasil.  But fingerprinting them would cause all sorts of diplomatic hell to break loose.  We all saw how quickly Pres. Bush caved in by dropping the steel tariffs when Europe and Japan threatened the US with reciprocity on our exports.  Ok, I'll shut up now before DS2 tells me he's tired of the word reciprocity. ;-)  -TNC

[Locii]

... in response to Triangle Area, Borders Argentina, Brasil..., posted by thundernco on Jan 15, 2004

** I am curious about the area being described here...if you guys have any real good links about it please post.  Below is a ramble about militant islamic activity, so please ignore for those who don't care.

Much of central and south america is target area for Islamic activists (not Arabs terrorists per se) due to economic and social conditions.  Not unlike the disenchfranchised in asia, the poor and ignorant (I use the term literally, not disparagingly) are easy targets for radical activists who arrive with nominal cash to spread around.

The human experience is not any different than gang membership in urban areas.  As society leaves these people behind, they find the ideas and capital that the (Islamic) militant activist brings compelling, and it appears to be way for them to join into modern society.

It is precisly the same way that the Shining Path and other groups seemed to gain membership in decades past.  For this generation, it is not the militant communist, but the militant Islamist that causes the alleged threat.  There is no mystery why the FARC is being obliterated in Colombia...it is becuase they are more mafia now than idealist....and mafia will always sell one another down the river.

So while there are 'terrorist arabs' in central and south america, they themselves are not the threat, but the people they influence.  Same with Phillipines, Indonesia, and even Thailand now, among many others.

On that note, I would argue the REAL wasy to fight militant islamist activity is to throw a several billion dollars into the Peace Corps type activities.  Bring the western ideas and even small opportunity to remote areas of the world, and it dislocates the assets that the anarchist/fundamentalist brings.

Ciao

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Triangle Area, Borders Argentina, Brasil..., posted by thundernco on Jan 15, 2004

The triangle area is very close to Iguazu Falls and my ex took me there to see where the river splits the three countries.  I don't know anything about the terrorist camps there, but the land and the women are beautiful.  I hope to live there someday.  Simply stunning, to me anyways.

Steve

[stefang]

... in response to Brazil, posted by stefang on Jan 15, 2004

This story is just to hilarious and I found some pictures of Rio and some very sexy Samaba dancers and other beautiful women handing out gifts to Americans for having to put up with the trouble. Their was an older man dancing with a Samba woman and he looked like he was having a good time.
Now do the American customs do the same for foreign tourists or is it a disgruntled federal worker taking your picture and in a blank expression telling you to have a nice day.

[Cherinha]

... in response to Re: Brazil, posted by stefang on Jan 15, 2004

[This message has been edited by Cherinha]

Zack asked me to comment on this subject and the 9 hour wait, but I wasn't online for a couple days long enough to comment... so here is my reply from below......

----------------------------
When I believe a subject has gotton out of hand, OR that the discussion would not lead to a positive light, I usually do not stear in that direction.

While I believe strongly in many things that are happening between Brasil and the USA "political-wise", I will not comment on them at this time.

HOWEVER... to answer the question above in regards to the 9 hour wait. Whether I was alone, or with my 3 young children, I would not want to wait 9 hours to go through customs after a 3 1/2 PLUS 9 1/2 hour flight from SLC to Sao Paulo.

HOWEVER... I have been by the SP GRU airport here, and the wait is not that. Some have commented on a 35 minute to 3 hour wait, I'm sure there has been shorter or longer. hahahaha... Sounds like when I was in line at the airport in Houston Texas in line for 3 1/2-4 hours after Sept. 11th happening.

There will ALWAYS be the percentage that do not welcome foreigners, or Americans!!! Shocker!!! But true... (same for americans..) But the feeling here that I see, and the reception that I get everywhere, is anything BUT cold, unfriendly, or revengeful. The cold reception on this board is at many times, MUCH colder than Brasil. Maybe some SHOULD take the trip to warm up. (in many ways... I remember the cold winters there!!!) lol

The Brasilians have their own reasons, and opinions. But the reception here is friendly, warm, and full carinhoso.

AND... btw... I didn't read that in any online ad, or newspaper, or highly aclaimed report. I'm here.

[pablo]

... in response to A twist to the situation that is 100% ri..., posted by Cherinha on Jan 16, 2004


I'm curious Cherinha, what exactly did you mean when you said, "The cold reception on this board is at many times, MUCH colder than Brasil."  Are you referring to the few comments from a couple other list members that thought you might have been a troll after your first few posts?  I think other than those initial few doubts the board has welcomed your comments and showed appreciation of a gringas perspective in Sao Paulo.  Why, even the American partner who supposedly betrayed you did not even say a word about your accusations.  Please don't become like Big B as some might start calling you endearingly...Big C.  

Pablo