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Author Topic: To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav.  (Read 5873 times)
Keith Smith
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« on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
Hi Guys. I appreceiate your input. I don't have a problem with U.S. Customs personnel doing their jobs. However, I had a serious problem with HOW they did. When they start asking me questions such as, "What's the name of the girl you're dealing with?" "How old is she?" "What's her address and telephone number?" "Why do you want a Latin woman?" "How did you pay for your plane ticket?" "What did you eat on the plane?", etc. Yes, I do find that more than a little disturbing. Plus, the last time I had gone through MIA (Dec. 2001), I was taken into an interrogation room. As I previously mentioned, that was payback for me filing a complaint against one of them a year earlier (Dec. 2000). Remember three words: ABUSE OF POWER. if you disbelieve me, do a forum search under "U.S. Customs." I have no reason to lie or exaggerate about something like this. Later.
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Ralph
Guest
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

Face it, Colombia is DRUG central. Gringos traveling to Colombia on a regular basis might be subject to questioning.
Think about it, if you were trying to smoke a guy out, what would you ask him? Sir, have you swallowed any cocaine filled condoms before entering the plane?

If a guy says he went to go see his GF, and then hesitates or stutters and stammers when trying to spit out her name and address, there is a pretty good chance he is lying.

I totally agree that at times customs agents can be very rude. When this whole subject came up, I figured it was going to be much worse. I've had similar types of questions when returning from the DR. I've had raised eyebrows and then had the agent tell me "you travel there quite a bit". I said "yep". He asked "why". I said "I Like it there". He asked "isn't it expensive to travel so much"? I said, "yep, I have a good job".

Not answering the questions truthfully will make them more suspicious and get you that thoroughly enjoyable cavity search.

As for going through our luggage. What else could they do. How many people would be walking back in with suitcases full of drugs, cash, liquor contra band etc etc etc, if they weren't going to ever have their bags searched? Not me. Maybe not you, but tons would.
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Keith Smith
Guest
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to pretty standard, posted by Ralph on Aug 26, 2003

I have a problem when the Inspector who started this mess decided to show me disrespect, when it was uncalled for. I answered his questions (truthfully). He searched my luggage (found NO contraband or narcotics). And he still gave me a hard time. Hey, they have a job to do. Fine. But, DON'T SHOW THAT ASS WHILE DOING IT! Later.
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DavidMN
Guest
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

Re: The food question - maybe that one's not out of line. I read somewhere one of the things the airline attendants pay attention to as well as security/customs/immigration on the ground is whether someone eats or not, whether they appear ill or not. If someone has just swallowed condoms full of drugs, they typically don't follow it with food or beverages on the plane.
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Starman
Guest
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

Keith,

The last time I went thru MIA I had the same problem. They took me into an interrogation room. It seemed that in my case there was a person that was wanted by the law and his name and description was similiar. But, the personnel were very rude. They looked very tired and frustrated. I told them that I understood their situation but I would NOT be mistreated. They lightened up then let me pass. They forgot to stamp my passport however. I think that they acted like typical govt. employees and maybe the power has gone to their head somewhat. I was under there complete control at this point (i.e. detained). A little scary.

Tim.
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Jeff S
Guest
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

I just read an article in the LA Times, that over 17,000 people a year are given cavity searches and "powerful laxitives" coming in through customs at LAX, when no evidence of smuggling is ever recovered. OUCH!

- Jeff S.
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Keith Smith
Guest
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to Don't feel bad. , posted by Jeff S on Aug 25, 2003

Thanks, Jeff.
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Craig
Guest
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

I understand what you went throught must have been awful.
Did  you know though...When a person American or otherwise enters a USA border or port from a foreign destination you can pretty much throw what we know about rights out the window? Do you know that any where else in the USA you would need a search warrant to go through someone's bags without consent? Not in Customs. They can contain you for a length of time without giving notification why or to let you contact a lawyer. This is the price we pay for the freedom we enjoy. It's going to get worse.

As a Judge I hold in high respect told me. "Our system is not perfect just the best this world has to offer."
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Traveller
Guest
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

Yeah, I'm with Freddie. You should have said, "Hey Bud, you got something on me or what? If you don't, you better terminate this line of questioning and go get your boss."
Because the line of questioning went beyond consentual conversation. If you haven't done anything to raise the haris on the back of anyone's ass, you should have the agent's in a sling for that type of questioning. Quite often, the supervisor doesn't know what's going on down in the pits. You should all know that there are a number of cops who feel that their badge gives them just about any leeway in the law.
Can a law enforcement official ask you those questions? Yes, they can. Do you have to answer them? No. Now, before I get too far out on a limb with that statement, the rules of questioning may have changed after 9/11. There might be something in the Homeland Security Act that states you do have to answer all questions no matter what. I don't know.
Now, you could kinda screw with them too.
What's the name of the girl? "Maria Isabella Fijardo Rosales Ocampo.
How old is she? 62 years old.
What's her address and phone number? She lives in Si Lo Ve at the house around the corner from the house with the big brown dog. Her phone nymber? Duh, have you ever been to Si Lo Ve? They don't have phones, people keep stealing the wires.
Why do you want a Latin Woman? Duh, sick of American Women.
How did you pay for the plane ticket? Recycling is a wonder ain't it? $1 a pound, baby.
What did you eat on the plane? When I know, I'll let you know.
I mean, how the Hell are they going to disprove any of that?
You know, you just might ask them, what the Hell, Bud? Do I resemble or do I fit a profile or what? How come you all keep messing with me everytime I come here? Of course, if you ask for a supervisor, it might take sometime for one to get down to where you are. You have to remember, if a guy is just screwing with you, they don't want the boss to come down cause they don't have a leg to stand on. The boss is management and he wants things to run smoothly as possible.
Anyways, there are a lot of "ifs" "ands" and "buts".  Just thinking out loud.
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Cali James
Guest
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Keith Smith on Aug 25, 2003

I personally don't think the questions are that big of a deal.  I see a lot of people being asked questions by customs as they exit the plane.  They've asked me a couple of times what I was doing in Cali, who I was visiting etc.  I think if I had gotten nervous or had been offended in some way, they would have asked even more questions.

I think profiling after 9/11 is a good thing.  Colombia is not exactly a tourist destination and so anyone traveling there who isn't himself Colombian, may raise suspicion.
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to To Gary, Freddie, cancun, Rich and Trav...., posted by Cali James on Aug 25, 2003

James,
You brought up one of my pet peeves.What does 9/11 have to do with anybody except for some terrorists who are 100%
arabs? Shifting emphasis to other travelers because of 9/11 is not only unjustified but it takes effort away from the real objective,stopping arab terrorists.Searching grandma makes no sence at all.We don't need to be politically correct here,we need to be smart. Even though I knew him as mayor here I think Bush should fire transportation secretary Norm Mineta.He is being politically correct at the expense of being effective.I would fire him for his not allowing guns in the cockpit alone.
And it seems Buba(JWB) just doesn't get it or he would direct these guys a little better.
And I think Tom Ridge is just a guy in a suit who doesn't have a clue.

Pete
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Cali James
Guest
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to  9/11 , posted by Pete E on Aug 25, 2003


Pete, admittingly, 9/11 was about Arab terrorists however that doesn't mean we can't profile for other problem areas --- like drug smuggling for instance.  

I really didn't think the questions asked by the Miami immigration were that big a deal.  Like the name of your novia and where she lives, it's a simple question really that a frequent traveler to Colombia should have no problem answering politely.  Some of the immigration folks may have a chip on their shoulders but I think a person may only make things worse by fighting back.
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re:   9/11 , posted by Cali James on Aug 26, 2003

James,
I never had a problem with them either.But Keiths experience is alot different.I don't know if you ever had the experience of a law enforcement person suddenly treating you with great suspicion.Its a little unerving.The is a power factor that makes you feel vulnerable.Actually one time at the border in Tijuana we got frisked and the car searched.The guy was a real jerk and on a power trip.
As far as 9/11,I was talking about all of this increased
scrutiny because of 9/11 that doesn't have anything to do with 9/11.Drugs they were looking for before.I guess what bothers me the most is them causing lots of delay searhing really low probability people and items.Its almost like cop mentality,we have to do something,so lets scrutinize everyone and everything.Or go for the easiest solution,not the most effective.And I think political correctness has something to do with it.Frisking grandma just to try and show they are not frisking only arabs.Profiling is justified when you have a good reason for it.
I guess what bothers me most about Keiths experience is they now seem to give him a hard time because he complained.

Pete
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Traveller
Guest
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Re:   9/11 , posted by Pete E on Aug 26, 2003

Uh yeah, searching "grandma" gets our rocks off? Have you ever searched anyone, let alone 500 people a day. It ain't all it's cracked up to be. You think cops like doing that all day? Heck no. As the old saying goes, "wear their shoes for awhile." I am not here saying what exactly they are doing when they search that person or that person, but there probably is some reason for it. I always get laugh out of it when people assume just because a guy wearing a badge is just screwing with them because he is asking some questions.
You're complaning about a guy being a jerk because he was less than polite after they didn't find anything. Do you know what happened to that guy 30 minutes before you showed up? Neither do I, but something might have happened. For example: I had a partner who had a 12 year old girl with a shotgun under her throat threatning to kill herself while she was sitting in her own bed. She talked to her for about 12 minutes and we thought that she had the girl relaxing and all of sudden, she literally blew her head off. Right in front of her eyes. About 4 feet away. Know what happened? She wrote her report and was back on the streets 2 hours later. Know what the next call was? A battery/domestic disturbance call. She was a bit agitated and said a few things. The jerk that just hit is wife so hard that her eye had come out and was calling my partner "this name and that" and said she should just go home and take care of the kids, etc, etc. So, finally she had enough of the guy, slammed him on the car (he wasn't exaclty small either), cuffed the guy etc and he the nerve to say she wasn't being professional. Well, maybe at the time, she might have done things differently if what had happened a little 2 hours before hadn't happened.
I am not excusing the way these guys might be acting and in Keith's case maybe it was the complaint, I don't know. But all this, he was being a jerk for no reason crap is kinda old. I have been there. Cops are human and we get mad and whatever and I am not saying a cop won't screw with you just because (like in perhaps Keith's case) but usually it's because there is something there. Folks want super cops who have no emotions and to uphold the law to the letter and be super professional and be as super polite as you are entitled to, but when that cop has a bad day or something happened to that guy prior to showing up, no one wants to give the guy break. All you dealwith this one cop for a few minutes and he's gone. He has to deal with a 1,000 people, a 1,000 different personalities, everyday at an airport or dozens if not hundreds of people if he's out on the streets, everyday, and some of those people might be terrorists or criminals or just ordinary bad people. But yet, out of all of those people, he selected you out of all these people just to screw with you?
Like I said, I have been in those shoes and while I don't think I ever screwed with anyone, I have seen it done but usually there is some provocation, no matter how small,  or maybe it's something that came down in the briefing that day. Who knows. All I'm saying is I don't know the individual circumstances why a cop may have appeaared to harrass you, but maybe there is something there that you aren't aware of and maybe he just made a mistake.
Geez, when am I writing this book?
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Re: Re:   9/11 , posted by Traveller on Aug 26, 2003

First I was complaining about decisions from the top,to frisk grandma because some arab terrorists took a big shot at us.The guy doing the searching didn't decide that and there's a good chance he thinks its pretty stupid too.
I know law enforcement is a tough job and I think most cops do a pretty good job.But there are jerks,like the guy I encountered in Tijuana(read more in my post below).There was no excuse for his antics.If he was just upset or angry it might have to do with the last people he encountered,although I don't think border guards get much of a bad time from anybody .But his bullsh!t would be intimidating tactics are totally unexcusable,particulary when he used them on me for just asking why we were searched,after he knew we were clean.Sorry,but that guy should be doing something else for a living.
My take on law enforcement officers.90% do a pretty good job.9% should be fired.1% should be in jail.My guestimates,they might be high.It requires a special type of person.Some people are just not that person.
They do get good pay and benefits.I worked 28 years for the city of San Jose.Alot of cops were getting out on disabilty retirement with maybe 15 or 20 years.Actually more of them
were getting disability retirement than regular retirement.
They always got more raises and benefits than the other workers.They also do a whole lot better than our military people do.
I think we should expect alot from them,which we get from most of them.I wouldn't want to be a cop.I guess we are lucky that the good ones do want to be cops.

Pete
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