On being the only 'Gringo' in town...

[Alteno]

Hello:  At the behest of Fred, I will try to turn this discussion in a new direction.

Living here in Mexico has been a positive and educating experience. I have been here in Arandas, Jalisco (two hours due east of Guadalajara: pop. 50,000; elevation 7000') for eight straight months now. Before that I lived and tried to study Spanish in Guadalajara, Jalisco for six months, with four months in Oregon in between.

After we were married in November, 2001, we lived in a brand new two bedroom apartment ($180 US month) in a mixed income neighborhood. Although the people were friendly and we made several friends living in our complex, we both found some of the noise levels too much for our sensibilties. Mexicans are a happy lot, and they like to party given any occasion. My wife is an Administrator at a medical center, and she needs her rest. So, when the opportunity came up to live in a large home with a beautiful garden and waterfall in a gated community, we jumped at it.

The region of los Altos is roughly the eastern third of the state of Jalisco. Arandas lies between two low lying mountain ranges covered in a pine forest and excellent for hiking or horseback riding. It is a prosperous and rather expensive region, due to the fact that there is a samll manufacturing base, ranching and tequila/agave production. Agave prices are at an all time high, and many folks are getting filthy rich. The agave buyer I talked to who bought my brother in laws agave, said it is not unusual for him to write out $500,000 US checks for one seasons harvest of agave! That means even campesinos with a few acres of agave can set themselves up for life.

I play Soccer on a Liga de Futbol de Veteranos team (for men aged 38 to 54), Campestre 'B'. This has helped immensely with my assimilation into society here, as I have made several good friends from all the teams. We were second in out league this year, which includes teams from all over los Altos.

My wife plays on a city league Volleyball team, which also placed second in the city this year. She has made many new friends this way too.

I received a little measured hostility from Arandenses when the USA beat Mexico. I wasn't afraid to point out all the cheap shots Mexico took on the USA in that game. I didn't back down, they respected that, and later we laughed about it.

This time of year is the best time to be here in los Altos. It is usually sunny in the morning, then in the afternoon every day we get either gentle rains lasting all night, or thundershowers. The temperature seldom gets above 75 degrees during the day at any time of the year, and is around 50 degrees at night...very comfortable. In December and January, the temperature dips into the twenties and is downright frigid, with ice on the windshields. It snows every ten to twenty years, depending on which local expert you talk to. At any rate, the countryside is now a bright green and will be until December.

GDL is very close for shopping at the malls for whatever you need. We have a daily market here, where we can buy fresh fruits and veges for a low price. Those are about the only things cheap here anymore, as almost everyting is now on par with the USA pricewise.

The area is rich in horsemanship traditions, Charreria. In fact, most things 'Mexican' originated in this region; Mariachis, Tequila and the Charro outfits. Most succesful ranchers dress like they do in the USA now; pressed Wranglers, pressed shirt and a straw Resistol.

My nickname is 'guero', and most people think I am just that, a Mexican guero until I speak. The girls, well, for some reason they think I am handsome. I was told this by some of the girls at the private school where I teach. In the USA, I could hardly buy a look, but here I am treated, uh, differantly to say the least. But most of these girls are just that, girls, and are having a good time practicing their english and flirting. I am sure if I was single, I could date many girls like I did in GDL, but I like women, not girls. It is fun though to be whistled at again!

Well, it just started raining again. We are going to the family ranch near Jesus Maria for my brother in laws excellent cooking today, and if it stops raining, some horseback riding. All in all, I really like it here, and will be sad if in the future we will have to move back to Oregon...

Saludos desde los Altos...

[A1A]

... in response to On being the only 'Gringo' in town..., posted by Alteno on Jul 6, 2002

Yes, mexicans are proud of their country and also have a sense of humor.  I was in Mexico City when the USA beat Mexico.  I didn't catch the score that morning before we went out for breakfast.  On paying la quinta, I asked who won the game, three or four smiling mexicanas started chanting "Mexico, Mexico, Mexico..2 to 0.  I shruged my sholders and smiled. OK, Ok,  I found out the score later from MC's son.  About kids soccer, I told MC that my youngest daughter loves to play soccer, she playes in  a spring and fall league.  To my surprise she said few girls in Mexico play soccer, only boys.  The girls play volleyball.  
  Next trip down we plan on getting out of the city to visit some smaller towns, Puebla is one, Cuernavaca is another.  
  Mexico City can be expensive like any other big city.  You pay to park at the malls, only 10 or 20 pesos, I guess that pays for the security guards all over the parking lots carrying M16's.  I had some excellent traditional mexican foods, from upscale restaurants to the mom and pop type places in the neighborhood.  Nothing like it here in Charlotte.  A week of the hot salsa's ripped my stomach up pretty good, it took a week to get back to normal here.  
 MC is coming up here in late August, we are not serious yet, but real close to it.  She is definitly someone I could live with, now it is time to find out if she is someone I can't live without.
Glad to see you back Randy..
A1A
 

[Michael B]

... in response to Some thoughts on Mexico, posted by A1A on Jul 6, 2002

Sounds good. What part of Mexico City did you stay in? Get lost in the subway, ha ha? BTW Cuernavaca and Puebla are NOT 'small towns', but they are beautiful. Try Tasco too, famous for its silver...but (hint hint) the same silver is availble in Cuernavaca at better prices. Don't forget to budget at least 1/2 day (or better, all day, including the bus rides back and forth) to go to the pyrimids. If you get a chance, go to Veracruz for a couple of days. A good preventative for the 'revenge' is a small shot of Sauza in the morning. A couple of Mexico City resturant tips (been a long time since I was there, hope they are still in business) is Alcapulco 23 for sea food, forget the exact address, it is just south of Alameda park on one of the side streets that run north into Juarez Ave. For steaks, try Cafe La Habana, on Bucareli about 3 blocks south of the trafic circle where Bucareli, Reforma and Juarez run together (where the 'little horse' statue USED to be).

Best luck.

[A1A]

... in response to Re: Some thoughts on Mexico, posted by Michael B on Jul 7, 2002

MC lives in Satelite in the suberbs north of the city.  We only went into the city twice because of the nightmare trafic .  Thanks for the restaurant pics, MC loves seafood, Alcapulco 23 sounds pretty good.  Hope the sauza works!
 We have a trip to the Teotihuacan pyrimids lined up for next trip, they are the largest in Mexico.  Puebla is known for pottery, and Cuernavaca is a vacation area, and like you said beautiful town, many europeans retire there, and a couple of MC's friends have second homes there.  
A1A

[FredFresno]

... in response to On being the only 'Gringo' in town..., posted by Alteno on Jul 6, 2002

Thanks Randy, I appreciate the portrait of where you live.  Of course, in my case it would be ungrateful not to appreciate it.  I’ve wondered for some time what part of Jalisco “Los Altos” refers to; now I know.  Since I work in agriculture your remarks on agave culture fascinate me, as does the floriculture in the Bogota area.  I find myself wondering about the volatility of agave prices.  Wine grape prices had been up, but now are down somewhat depending on variety and location (so I’m told).  The California Department of Food and Agriculture would have me remind our fellow estadounidense that merlot is more heart-healthy than tequila!  My future suegra once asked me if I would want to live in Bogota.  I said yes, but I wouldn’t want to give up my job here.  That remains true from an economic perspective.  At this point I wouldn’t see Bogota as unlivable from a safety perspective, but having a US passport and the ability to bail at any time makes the idea of staying there more approachable.  At any rate, it’s fascinating to read from someone who has dived in all the way.

[Rick Johnson]

... in response to On being the only 'Gringo' in town..., posted by Alteno on Jul 6, 2002

Nice post Alteno! I also checked out your pictures and can say you have a very attractive wife. She has a "regal" look, although I have to admit you are one ugly son-of-a-gun(grin). Seriously, if you say you are not elitist you have to be taken at your word. My only point was that guys should look for the woman they want independent of any bogus class distinctions. Many jewels will otherwise be passed over. Best of luck to you.

Rick

[CaliBound]

... in response to On being the only 'Gringo' in town..., posted by Alteno on Jul 6, 2002

I am not Mexican and I will be the first to tell you that I do not know much about Mexico. I was not going to reply to your post, but I shared it with some of the Mexicans that work in my company and they asked me to please do so.  They have a question for you.

What do you call the Mexicans that work in the USA and send their money back home?

I hope your answer is better than the one you used to describe these "True Mexicans" in your post below.

"Many of the Mexicans in the USA are Indians, who have no education or opportunity in Mexico. They are in the USA to better their lives, and bring many of their cultures with them. Some may not even speak Spanish!"

Let me tell you what these "Uneducated Indians" (as you described them) want you to know ...

"We do more for the Mexican economy than any other group in Mexico. The Mexican economy is fueled by us. Without the billions of dollars we sent back home, most of your upper class blue-eyes friends and family would be driving cabs or selling tortillas on the corners.  Your opinion about us is just that ... an opinion ... and a very racist one.  It's is the opinion of the only gringo in town surrounded by a few light-skinned, blue-eyes Mexican minority."

About Me ... I live in Georgia. I do not shop on Fridays or Saturdays. The lines at Wal-Mart are to the back of the store. You will find the same situation at the post office and Western Union.  In fact the post office stays open late on Saturday! Why? Fridays & Saturdays are pay days for most of the Mexicans working in Georgia. That's when they do their shopping and send most of their earnings back home to Mexico.

Not only do they fuel the Mexican economy, but they give ours a great lift as well.  Some of the local store owners depend on them to survive (and this is in a small town in Georgia -- Can you imagine what it does for Mexico when millions of hard-working, "True Mexicans" throughout the United States send their money back to Mexico every week!

I hope I was able to translate their feelings.

[Alteno]

... in response to I Have A Questions For You, posted by CaliBound on Jul 6, 2002

Randy stated:

'Many of the Mexicans in the USA are Indians, who have no education or opportunity in Mexico. They are in the USA to better their lives, and bring many of their cultures with them. Some may not even speak Spanish!'

Racist? NOT! I stand by this statement! First of all, I stated:

**Many of the Mexicans in the USA are Indians**

Any arguments? I said many are Indians (100% native american blood), is that not true?

**Who have no education or opportunity in Mexico**

Is this statement somehow insensitive? I hardly think so, as I am ALIGNING myself with their plight! I have seen how hard life can be for some without education or opportunity HERE in Mexico. I never called ALL Mexicans in the USA uneducated...read it again!

**They are in the USA to better their lives, and bring many of their cultures with them. Some may not even speak Spanish!**

The fact that some Indian immigrants to the USA from Mexico CANNOT speak Spanish is well documented, and can create a plethora of workplace and social problems. Imagine, the foreman trying to explain safety regulations in Spanish to a recently arrived Indian who only can speak Nahuatl! It could create some problems...

Their opinions sound asinine. I have in my family many beautiful morena and morena clara nieces, some with blue eyes, some with brown eyes. I love all my Mexican family and close friends equally without regard to their skin shade.

Another thing; tell your so-called in-the-know politically correct Mexican-Americans that there are plenty of POOR WHITE, NATURAL BLOND & BLUE EYED people living here in Jalisco in the countryside. Being white in Mexico doesn't guarantee success; THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT, SHOULDN'T THEY?

Saludos desde los Altos

[JUAN]

... in response to I Have A Questions For You, posted by CaliBound on Jul 6, 2002

I think Randy has hinted in the past that Mexicans living in Mexico look down on Mexicans living in the US, at least the chicano culture.

But Mexicans living in the US have more opportunity, more money, more power than most Mexicans living in Mexico.

Vicente Fox realizes this, that is why he has visited Mexican American communities in the US, that is why he is pressing the president of the US to grant amnesty to thousands of Mexican illegals in the US.

A Mexican-American almost won the mayoral race in Los Angeles last year.

Have you seen George W. Bush's nephew? The guy looks more like a Mexican than a gringo, he's already being groomed for a political career, many are calling him the next great Bush family politician.

Can you imagine the percentage of the Mexican/Latino American voting bloc he will get?

I would not pity the Mexican-American community.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: I Have A Questions For You, posted by JUAN on Jul 7, 2002

Los Angeles County Demographics: 47% Hispanic (90%+ of those from Mexican origins) 13% Asian, 10% Black and 30% White. I strongly suspect a Mexican-American city & county government very soon. Look at other districts in Southern California - Loretta Sanchez (white and long since divorced from from her Hispanic husband) kept her Sanchez surname because it carries more political clout than her English maiden name. She knocked popular US House Representative,  Bob Dornan, out of the saddle a few years back.

-- Jeff S.

[robbysanjuan]

... in response to I Have A Questions For You, posted by CaliBound on Jul 6, 2002

His post are clear, consice, and truthful. I mean, the guy lives in the country he is talking about. Get off his back and give us all a break. It is true, how many doctors, lawyers and engineers are working for you? Why do you have to share post from here with them? Sounds like BS to me, just anything here not pertaining to Colombia, gets ripped up.

[FredFresno]

... in response to I Have A Questions For You, posted by CaliBound on Jul 6, 2002

CaliBound, I admire your loyalty to your Mexican co-workers but don’t see why you should have appended this remark to this post.  Randy was told by a number of people that he didn’t put his best foot forward on his previous posts, and he seems to have moved on.  I suggest that we should, too.

[Red Clay]

... in response to I Have A Questions For You, posted by CaliBound on Jul 6, 2002

The political correctness here is so thick it is hopeless. Are the Mexican immigrants standing in line at WalMart doctors, web designers, attorneys, and engineers? What is wrong with the statement of fact that some of them have little or no education or economic opportunity in Mexico? Nobody said it was their fault. Everyone knows they are hard workers, many here have said that they admire their work ethic. Everyone knows they contibute greatly to both economies-too bad they can't do it legally.

It is very disappointing to know that your Mexican friends have learned that any minority here can be a victim who waits for a caucasian person to say something "wrong" so they can get bent-out-of-shape about it and solicit sympathy from folks who believe that the discussion of racial/social/cultural differences is "racist".

[JUAN]

... in response to Re: I Have A Questions For You, posted by Red Clay on Jul 6, 2002

I think they took offense to Randy hinting they are not *real* Mexicans.

Imagine telling an Italian-American, "you're not a *real* Italian" or an Irish-American, "you're not *really* Irish."

Who wouldn't take offense?