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Author Topic: Heading south soon, need advice!  (Read 32583 times)
wanderer
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« on: February 14, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
I have been a lurker on this board for sometime now and have finally decided to get off the fence and head south to Cali in June. My only decision left is to decide if I should go with the TLC group tour in June or spend my time at All Colombian Girls. I would appreciate any thoughts or advice that you would care to give. If you have any recent experience with either one, I'd also like to know what your thoughts were about them.

I have only a week to spend this trip, so I want to make it count. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
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FenixRises
Guest
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Heading south soon, need advice!, posted by wanderer on Feb 14, 2002

Hi wanderer,
I have recently returned from Cali. I got married on this last trip. I only have experience with one agengy, Luz Amparo's Latin Best. Luz is a good woman and has been in business for over 10 years. Her introductions have resulted in nearly 700 marriages. In December of 2001 she had 40 couples from her agency get married. All told that is a good track record. I highly recommend her and her agency. You can stay where ever you want but if this is your first trip and if you do not speak Spanish very well there are real advantages to staying at her B&B. You get breakfast and your laundry is done everyday. It is also close to a large general store(Exito), Chippi Chappi and Ave Sixta. Plus this is the place women come everyday. Some are just looking, some are signing up and some are looking at the fresh meat(that's you). When I went the first time there were a fair number of 30+ women at her agency. You must realize that many of the 30+ women have at least one child and if not, definetly want at least one, this is something you need to consider seriously. Each child adds $1500-$2000 to the cost of your marriage and eventual return to the states, plus of course the long term expense.
For me it was a wonderful experience. I now have a beautiful wife and a terrific new son. I also have peace and happiness in my home. I wish you the best in your search.
Fred
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Heading south soon, need advice!, posted by FenixRises on Feb 15, 2002

I would guess the extra expense to get my step son a visa was about $600-$800.Mostly embassy fees,medicals and trips to Bogota.My step son made 2 round trips to Bogota because my wife misread the medical requirements and sent him back to Cali.A child under 14 does not need a blood test but they do need a medical exam.We had to have him sent back to Bogota for this before we haeded out on our honeymoon.
The real expense is supporting them here.Food,clothes,school supplies,toys,recreation,special classes,swimming lessons,ect.Cost will go up dramatically when the kid hits college age.Plus you have one more set of plane tickets when you visit Colombia.If you don't already have a home that has room for the kid you would have to move to a larger one,which of course would cost more.I just lost my guest room.

Pete
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MarkInTx
Guest
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Re: Heading south soon, need advice!, posted by Pete E on Feb 15, 2002

Thanks... That helps.

I know the cost of a kid once they get here. Just wondering what the hidden fees were to get them here...

Any trouble with the father?
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Kids always cost more... and are always ..., posted by MarkInTx on Feb 15, 2002

The father signed a permission letter for my step son to leave the country  but we didn't know we needed one every time the child leaves the country.When we went back for vacation the first time he decided to jack us around and not sign another letter.We were there 11 extra days before we got out by dubious means.We had an attorney working on it all of 2001 and now have a permanent letter of authorization.Even this can be revoked by the father but our attorney put penalties in the agreement if he does. This whole deal cost probably $2500 to resolve.I think he has now accepted the situation and knows he needs to cooperate if he wants us to take the boy to Colombia where he is allowed to see him.Lots of additional BS involved here I won't go in to.This guy never married my wife and never gave a cent of support for the kid,but because he is the biological father he has big rights in Colombia.It doesn't matter if the father never even saw the kid.If there are kids involved it makes things potentially much more difficult.

Pete
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MarkInTx
Guest
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Kids always cost more... and are alw..., posted by Pete E on Feb 15, 2002


Do you know if this is just Colombia? Any idea of it exists in Brazil as well?

I guess if he had parental rights terminated, and you adopted the boy, it would be different... right?

Is this a common problem?
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Yikes!, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 16, 2002

This is Colombian law.I don't know about other countries but the latin countries tend to be paternalistic,so it could be similar.
Where we got in trouble was confusing US law with Colombian law.I thougt since he had a visa and a green card they were just being stupid when we encountered this at the airport.I kept showing them the visa and the green card and saying we couldn't have got these without a letter.Finally a guy who spoke good english assured me it is true,there must be a new letter of permission no less than 60 days old any time a kid under 18 with a Colombian passport leaves Colombia.
Thev other thing that pi---s me off is no body told us this.Not the attorney my wife hired.I didn't hire an attorney,I thought my wife had it figured out,but her attorney did only the wedding,plus shuffle my paperwork for the Embassy and tell me I was OK.Wrong.Not our travel agent,not the Embassy,not the INS.I have said before if I had hired Gary Bala to do our visas instead of going it alone I would be money ahead.That money has now added up to about $5000,plus many days being delayed.I E-mailed Gary when we got stoped getting out of Colombia and he called me in Cali,no charge.He said yes,that was true and suggested some possible solutions.I know many guys get it right no problem.Then there are exceptions like me.Also,when I spoke to my new travel agent,a lady married to a Colombian this came out in the first miniute of conversation.The other clown was a ticket seller,not a travel agent.He could care less once he sold the ticket.
Yes I immagine it is a common problem.I think if nobody is listed on the childs birth certificate as the father then
you could be OK.Otherwise you have to look the SOB up and ask him ,or pay him,to sign.If he couldn't be found you would have to go to court and that could take a couple of months,probably more like 6.We could have gotten our permanent letter without the fathers permission,it just would have been more involved,going to court,ect.He wanted my wife to sign something over to him so we made a deal.
Of course this is Colombia and there are ways to get around the system,(a little green usually works)but if someone complains you could be in legal trouble.We were presented with about 3 ways to get him out of the country the first time and took the safest one.It was a nail biter in the airport before we got out.They held us untill we allmost missed our plane then let us go.I told my wife we were not going back again untill it was worked out.Actually she kept telling me it was a done deal but didn't get finalized untill 2 days before we left last Jan.12.She even talked to DAS,Colombian Immigration, at the airport the day before we left to show them the papers but again they held us up untill we almost missed our plane.
My brother in laws ex wife married a Canadian I think it was.(one off you guys?).They got his son out of the country without his permission.They probably forged his signature.They could get in trouble if they go back and he reports them.If I was them and went back I would be sure he didn't know about it.In our case they were too many people who know us to show up there and not have it be known.
My wife called the family to ask about her nephew and they said they couldn't tell her and please don't call again.Of course her brother was typical Colombiano,no support,little child contact.I think he got what he deserved.It bothers my wife more than him.He doesn't seem to care.
Adoption was a possibility but that was more involved and time consuming than getting the letter.The other solution
is getting the kid a US passport,but that will probably take 5 more years or so.
Also,one other bit of imformation from my new travel agent.When the kid reaches 15 or 16 and is a boy he needs to have a Colombian military card,kind of like a draft card,to leave the country.Hopefully he will have his US passport by then.
Yes,I think anybody bringing a child here will have to deal with these issues.Watch out for the signature forging.Your next vacation to Colombia could get extended awhile,in less than agreeable accomodatios.Our lawyer said don't do it.You can go to jail.Of course the other solution is to never go back,it would be difficult for them to do much when you are here,but you are going to have one unhappy Colombiana.

Pete
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Dean
Guest
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to More saga of child and DAS(Colombiam Imm..., posted by Pete E on Feb 16, 2002

Hey Pete...
Hope you are doing well....
As always thanks for the valuable info....

When I read your post a year ago Paty and I proceeded to get a custodial agreement for Lina (Paty's daughter).

Now, what I'm unclear of is this....
Paty tells me that the lawyer tells her that every time we depart Colombia with Lina she will need to get a reissuance of the custodial document from the notary.

Now in your situation what I'm hearing is that you need to get a new document from the concerned parties everytime you leave....

To compound things...a family friend in Bogota ...who is a lawyer says that the original custodial isn't a permanent thing....( I thought that permanent custody meant "permanent" ) foolish me.... The family friend lawyer claims that there is an additional custody document that is stronger and more binding than the first....

My question to myself is..."why didn't our original lawyer mention this to us at the onset of all this?"

The whole thing sounds strange to me and I feel that I'm somewhere getting screwed....

So far there have been no problems in that we have not taken Lina to Bogota with us....
Paty wouldn't leave her there and I don't want to take a chanch of the family being seperated on the whims of the system there....

any feedback will be very welcome....

Thanks,
Dean
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: More saga of child and DAS(Colombiam..., posted by Dean on Feb 16, 2002

Dean,
My understanding of the document we know have is it is a "permanent" custody agreement and we don't need to get it updated every time we go."Permanent" is not really true in that the father can recind it at any time.As part of our agreement with him he was given something for nothing in effect,even though the agreement say he is to pay for it.If he recinds the agreement we can demand payment.
This is what I am told.I sometimes don't get the strait story.This is all in spanish.I will ask my wife again.
As far as why your lawyer didn't tell you,I don't know but we changed lawyers to a guy who is retired from the agency that oversees these matters and he seems to know what he is doing.Our first lawyer was making no progress.

Pete
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FenixRises
Guest
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: More saga of child and DAS(Colombiam..., posted by Dean on Feb 16, 2002

Dean,
My wife obtained "sole custody". However, if and when we return to Colombia she must go back to the notary and get reissuance of the custodial document from the notary. This is better than needing to relocate the father and have him sign a new document for every exit from the country. We had no problem and no delays exiting Colombia, this time. But who knows what might happen in the future.
Fred
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Re: More saga of child and DAS(Colom..., posted by FenixRises on Feb 16, 2002

Fred,
See response above.

Pete
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MarkInTx
Guest
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Heading south soon, need advice!, posted by FenixRises on Feb 15, 2002

I was curious how you came up with the figure that a child adds $2000 to the price of the process?

Plane ticket... and...?
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FenixRises
Guest
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Fenix -- a question..., posted by MarkInTx on Feb 15, 2002

MarkInTx

Plane Ticket(s)
For me this was
One round trip from Cali to Bogota
One one way Cali to Bogota
One one way Bogota to LAX
Total about $650

Visa Fees at US embassy in Bogota
$435

Vaccinations in Cali
About $75

Medical Check in Bogota
$40

Luggage, 3 pieces
Bought on sale at Exito don't remember

Legal Fees associated with departure permission
$200

This is off the top of my head so there may be more but I'm sure you get the idea.
Fred
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Wayne
Guest
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Heading south soon, need advice!, posted by wanderer on Feb 14, 2002

The TLC tours are the laughing stock among the agencies.  They are expensive and don't screen their girls at all.  I heard they are filled with prostitutes and scammers.  They just run ads in the paper and let in whoever shows up.  You can't tell a prostitute in Cali by looks or clothes....

I met many guys that used the All Colombian Girls Agency and did not meet one that was impressed.  It's a nice place to stay but it's known by the girls as kind of sleasy. Don't get me wrong, it's a party house and it's alot of fun, but not a place to find a wife in my opinion. Recardo is Margareth's ex, and I wouldn't go near either one of them again.  Recardo gave me one of his cards in front of Latin Encounters.  Scamming business in front of another agency....I've been holding back until now, but I think both of those agencies really stink.  Something is really wrong in that little circle.

I think Luz Amparo's agency should be your 1st stop.  It's dignified, comfortable, and has a very long trac record.  She seems very honest.  Don't stay at any agency.  Stay at the Aparta Hotel Del Rio, and keep your options open.  Talk to the guys at the agencies.  You'll get the feel of it pretty quick.

If you don't have much time, this is just going to be a fun vacation.  It will take you a week of dating multiple girls to find one you like.  Then it is time to go home.  Talk about painful.  I went for a week and stayed almost a month the 1st time.  This process takes mucho tiempo and mucho dinero.

If you don't know much Spanish, don't waste any time learning.  You have enough time to get the basics, so don't be lazy.

My 2 pesos,
Wayne
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MarkInTx
Guest
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »
... in response to Re: Heading south soon, need advice!, posted by Wayne on Feb 15, 2002


Wayne,

For those of us who haven't been around as long and don't know all of the players...

Which agency is Luz Amparo's agency?
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