AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOMBIA - AUC

[Villa in Cali]

AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOMBIA - AUC
(UNITED SELF-DEFENSE GROUP OF COLOMBIA)

Last night on the news in Colombia they had an interview with Carlos Castaño leader of the AUC.  He said that if his government doesn't do something to stop the FARC that he would take it into his own hands.  He says that he will give the Colombian government 10 months to act or his 20,000 member group will act.  I can say from past experience with Castano that when he says something he means it.  Castano and the AUC are backed by many of Colombia's biggest companies while the FARC relies on drug money and kidnapping's to support their offenses.  Castano's methods can be brutal but he does have the support of most Colombian's.  I am interested in seeing what happens in 10 months from now and whether he backs up his words.  Also next year Colombia will have a new president.  2002 in Colombia looks like it will be quite active and could shape its future.  I believe that any man who is traveling to Colombia should keep himself informed and take an interest not only in the women but also what makes Colombia tick.  Many men go only for the women and forget to learn something about the country and culture.  Just my thoughts.

Pacino

[Pete E]

... in response to AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOMBIA - AUC, posted by Villa in Cali on Dec 4, 2001

Pacino,
Hopefully this ultamatem will help someone with a much harder line than Pastrana get elected president.Pastrana is a nice guy who has been totally ineffective in dealing with FARC and the other rebel groups.He gets screwed every time he tries to negotiate with them and he hasn't figured it out yet.They need to get rid of the good guy and the good guy approach.50,000 or so rebels are killing a country of 36,000,000 people.Actually it may sound unfair but Colombians are getting what they deserve for being unwilling to take on the problem and get rid of the rebels.
Appeasers like Pastrana give them hope they don't have to make the hard choices.How long do they need to watch a failed policy before they get up the courage to take care of the situation?
Hopefully the US,with its own experience with terrorism can understand now that you can't judge Castana by one standard and the rebels by another.War is dirty business.The quicker they get it over the better off they will be.If Castana has to do it I can just hear the liberal press critisizing him for every collateral damage situation.The US government has been playing in to the rebels hands by trying to get Colombia to hold back Castano.This is more Bill Clinton than George Bush.We need to rethink this right along with the Character refference standard for spies hired by the CIA.What about the cost of inaction?What about what the rebels have done for 30 years?People can't even drive between Bogota and Cali without fear of being stopped by the rebels.
I hope the US stays angry long enough to get rid of terrorism in every country in the world,including Colombia.

Pete

[Aaron]

... in response to AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOMBIA - AUC, posted by Villa in Cali on Dec 4, 2001

Pacino,

I think you're definitely right that men searching for Colombian wives should understand the present domestic issues and culture of Colombia. This will help them to realize why so many Colombians are leaving, and have left the country, and why many women are looking for foreign husbands. The excuse that Colombian men are womanizers and abusers is probably one of the least important reasons why many Colombian women are looking for foreign husbands; however, agency hype promotes this distorted picture.

I think the primary reason why Colombian women are looking for foreign husbands is because they want a better standard of living for themselves and remaining family members, either economically and socially, as well as to escape the danger of warfare and terrorism. I truely believe this is what fuels the MOB agencies in Colombia, and other economically instable/war torn countries.

As for Colombian within the next few years, YES, this is a critical time for Colombia, but it may serve as a pivoting point for improvement now that other countries are recognizing the criticality of the issue, and are providing some assistance. Basically, I think the issue of the new President and his role with the U.S. will be critical. I think the U.S. is going to be more directly involved in what is happening, since now it will be considered a War on Terrorism against the FARC, ELN, and AUC. I think this is what most Colombians would want. Many don't have much faith in the government anymore for protecting them, and stopping the narco-guerrillas. As for the auto-defensas, YES, they do have some support by some, but there are many (actually most) Colombians that do not fully support the AUC, nor their tactics of human rights abuses. Also, don't forget, although the AUC has been recently trying to promote a politically acceptable platform, they are still financing their activities with drug money along with contributions from big business.

Basically, the U.S. has given the Colombian government an ultimatum...."if the Colombian government continues to ally with the AUC (which is considered an international terrorist group and violator of human rights), then no U.S assistance." I totally agree with this position. So, I believe that the Colombian government is going to be less congenial with the AUC, and if the AUC takes things into their own hands the same way they have been doing, it will come back to haunt them.

I think the the primary reason the Colombian government has not made a serious strategic effort to stop the guerrillas is because the Colombian military is too weak, many departmental and national politicians, judges, lawyers, along with big businesses are indirectly intertwined with narco-trafficking. So really, the Colombian government can't do a thing when itself is a house of ill repute. Hopefully, external international pressure will force the government to clean house, and then there will be leaders that can make definite stands against the guerrillas and nacros.  

What do you think?

One more thing, as a gringo who has been to
Colombia, and will be returning next Spring, I plan to avoid taking excusions outside of the larger cities. Even while in the larger cities, I would be very careful, and try to blend in as much as possible. When travelling between cities, travel by plane, not by car or bus.

Chao,
Aaron

[Edge]

... in response to Re: AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOMBIA - AU..., posted by Aaron on Dec 4, 2001

Hello Aaron - I hope all is well with you.  I hope you do not take this as an attack, but I would have to disagree with you on why many Colombian women are looking for norteamericanos.  I would say that it is a combination of the machista attitude of Colombian men and also the trouble in their country and the opportunities they have in the USA to help their families..  I would not downplay the issues these women have with the Colombian men as you did in your post..  My wife talks of Colombian men like we talk about AW.  Her old boyfriend is a prominant journalist in Cali and ran for mayor in the last election.  They were together 8 years.  About a year after her and I became engaged he put on a full court press to get her back, but she was not having anything to do with him.  Her issues with him were that he would not allow to have any type of independence, like working part time, she could never be sure he was being faithful to her, he would never lift a finger to do anything in the house.  I am the exact opposite and she appeciates it.

Her family is middle class and they struggle, but their quality of life is not bad.  I think the foremost reason she is here with me is because she fell in love with me and because she knows that Colombian men do not appreciate her the way I do.

Take care...

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOMBIA ..., posted by Edge on Dec 5, 2001

Edge,

Your wife actually may believe that about all Colombian men, and you may take her opinion as an authority, but the opinion of just one person in no way justifies sweeping generalizations about a population of people.

I know many Colombian men that are goup men, and faithful to their partners, and I know many happy Colombian couples.

I don't get into the business of making generalizations or stereotypes about people, even about American women for that matter. Another thing is this, out of the few women that I met in the agencies, the ones who said that their excuse for looking for an American man was because Colombian men are poor marriage candidates, those are women that I didn't want to continue corresponding with. I have many male and female Colombian friends, and we do many things together. Many of my male friends in the US are looking for Colombian girls to marry. I also would like to marry a girl from Cali, but I don't want a woman that has a poor opinion of Colombian men or women (which are her own people).

Chao,
Aaron

[Edge]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: AUTODEFENSAS UNIDAS DE COLOM..., posted by Aaron on Dec 5, 2001

to not generalize or stereotype in conversations as you did in your original post about the reasons why Colombian women join agencies.  Of course there are always exceptions to a generalization, but we always speak in generalizations.  I am in no way trying to bad mouth Colombian men or latin men in general.  I have many male friends there and I accept the way it is.  Most of the time, they do not deny that their's is a machista culture and what the women say is true.

Since you understand español, here is my wife's opinion and the opinion of her girlfriend's in Colombia and Miami:

La mayoria de las mujeres colombianas piensan que los
hombres colombianos son: No valororan la mujer, son
infieles, inestables, machistas, juegan con los
sentimentos, no son responsables, les gusta salir
solos a discotecas fiestas con sus amigas y que sus
esposas esten en la casa cuidando los hijos y
cocinando, mentirosos, son lo peor, una
porqueria......

Ellas prefieren los gringos por que: Su cultura es
diferente, valoran la mujer,
quieren establidad, una familia.

Pero tambien hay exepciones: Algunas quieren encontrar
un gringo por que quieren salir del pais, por el
dinero, por que tienen hijos y quieren un futuro para
sus hijos, y tambien algunas solo quieren que el
hombre les de dinero
y muchas tienen otro hombre en Colombia.

Entrevistadas: Gabriela Gomez
                   Cecilia Murcia
                   Angie Collins y todas mis amigas
en Colombia. El 80% de las colombianas piensan asi.

[Aaron]

... in response to It is difficult ...., posted by Edge on Dec 5, 2001

Edge,

Did you tell your wife and her friends what I wrote in my post? And you all felt that you needed to do a write up in Spanish as a reply?

I hope I haven't offended them. But, plain and simple, where in the world did they get the 80% figure from? Did you all conduct a survey throughout Colombia?

What they wrote, even though they may feel that way because of negative experiences, sounds like nothing but propaganda to bad mouth Colombian men and justify their desire to meet an American. With regards as to why I am looking for a Colombian wife, I don't feel the need to bad mouth American women to justify my desire to marry a foreign woman. Really, I don't think all American women are that bad, most of them are pretty good. But, I happened to be physically attracted to Latinas, and I like the cultural aspects of Latin American countries.

I don't see anything wrong with Colombianas wanting to meet gringos and come here to the US. It's the motives and reasoning behind it that is most important to me.

Let's look at it like this.....why are there virtually no MOB agencies within the more economically stable and peaceful Latin American countries? I am willing to bet that if Colombia did not have all of it's domestic issues, there probably wouldn't be a MOB presence there in the first place.

Another thing is that I never said that some Colombianas' poor experiences with some Colombian men is not a motivation for them to look for a man from another country. I said it probably isn't the primary reason, but agency hype portrays it almost as the only reason.

Aaron

[Kenfer8]

... in response to Re: It is difficult ...., posted by Aaron on Dec 5, 2001

I posted this message a few threads below but it also applies to this one.

The issue of why there are so many agencies in Colombia and women willing
and able to sign up is very controversial. I think it's the
combination of several factors.

Poverty, war, crime, lack of opportunities, etc, play an important role for
these ladies to sign up with the agencies. Also, in the group
age of 20 to 30 year olds...something like 9 out of 10 murder victims are
men. This creates an imbalance in the number of
marriage-age women vs. marriage-age men. And it's not the agency hype that
falsely states that there are 10 women for every man.
But a 55% women vs 45% men is a huge demographical imbalance.

There is another factor that hasn't been covered in this forum: of course
there are poorer countries than Colombia (Honduras,
Dominican Republic, etc). There are also countries like Nicaragua and El
Salvador that have endured terrible civil wars.

But there is something that is very deep-rooted in the Colombian culture
that sets the country appart: we just don't know how to be
poor. People in Colombia will do anything to improve themselves, most would
do it the legal way...others will do it the illegally....but
almost no one is willing to accept their fate without a fight.

People will migrate to other countries with or without visas, with or
without education, with or without the language. Some women will
marry a fat foreigner 15+ years their senior, with whom they're not in love
and can't even communicate. But they'll do it anyway.
Most people will work their behinds off to improve the life of their
families. A few others will deal cocaine, kidnap, rob, murder.
Anything goes when it comes down to the survival and advancement of the
family.

If you go to say Mexico or Guatemala, you can find really poor, illiterate
people...but they don't have the drive and willingness to get
out of that situation like the one you'll find in Colombia.

Kenfer

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: It is difficult ...., posted by Kenfer8 on Dec 5, 2001

Kenfer,

I totally agree with you here.

Send me email from time to time. ard141@psu.edu
I have a question about the agencies when they say the ratio of women to men is 55:45 ..... that isn't a 10:1 ratio. Isn't it 1.22 females to every male? Now, in raw numbers, that isn't much of a difference, but when considering percentages of women to men then it probably is a large imbalance, especially if the imbalance is concentrated in one specific region of the country and not spread out.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Chao,
Aaron

[Kenfer8]

... in response to Tell it Kenfer........You have knowledge..., posted by Aaron on Dec 5, 2001

Aaron,

I've read some time ago in one of the agenciy's profile the hype of 10 women for every man. The 55:45 is my estimate for the 20 to 30 age group. When I went to college in California the ratio was 58 men for every 42 women (it was an engineering school)...and belive me...that was a huge imbalance...the girls had their pick.

I'm glad I can participate with more relevant posts these days, rather than fending attacks of the troll hunters.

Kenfer

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Tell it Kenfer........You have knowl..., posted by Kenfer8 on Dec 5, 2001

Kenfer,

Thanks for the follow-up. I need to review how to interpret ratios...=0)

And if it makes you feel any better, I appreciate your posts.

Hang in there,
Aaron

[Edge]

... in response to It is difficult ...., posted by Edge on Dec 5, 2001

Hello Kenfer, let me welcome you to PL and I am glad you stuck it out when you initially started posting.  It is good to have all types of different perspectives here and since you are a single Colombian male, I am glad that you can participate.

One of the girlfriends that my wife mentions as one of the "entrevistas" is Gabriela who is a knockout, beautiful, former model, living in Miami now.  From time to time, my wife tries to set her up with some norteamericano friends I have.  She professes to be interested, but nothing really comes of it.  My wife thinks she is still messing around with her ex-husband behind her families back.

Anyway, I kind of agree with Pete, that many times the women are younger when they are playing around with the married guys.  I had a novia in Venezuela who would complain to me about the latin men and all of their girlfriends.  When she was telling me about her old boyfriends, she would mention that a few were married so she was really part of the problem.  But these affairs/ relationships with the married guys happened when she was younger.

I think what my wife is complaining about is more of the machista attitude, not so much the infidelity.

What is your opinion on this??

[Kenfer8]

... in response to Bienvenido Kenfer..., posted by Edge on Dec 5, 2001

Hi Edge,

I think my detractors left me alone once they realized I'm not a troll.

I read what your wife wrote...and it can be applied to the previous generation of men and/or men of a lower social class. Of course some men of all backgorunds and ages misbehave, but I think what most women in Colombia don't tolerate is a BROKE play boy, machista wanna-be. If a guy has the cash and provides, he can get away with almost anything. I don't condone that, but it happens a lot.

The new generation of men (30 and under) is a little different. Things are more balanced now between men and women of the younger generation.

What happens is that we inherited a country in ruins. There are decent men in Colombia, the problem is that it is very hard to take care of a family. So many guys opt to have casual, informal relationships because they can't afford anything more serious even if they want to.

Here's where the American men show up. American men of all types sign up with the agencies. There are decent guys with stable lifes here in the U.S. who want a serious relatioship with a lovely Colombian woman. There are others who can barely make a living here in the U.S. (probably charged the agency membership and trip to a credit card) and go to Colombia for ego-boosting purposes.

But for the ladies all of them look basically the same. Most of the ladies haven't visited the U.S. and can't speak English, so it's very hard for them to figure out the American in front of them. Some might be getting married with a guy with more "baggage" than a Colombian "machista".

Kenfer

[Edge]

... in response to Re: Bienvenido Kenfer..., posted by Kenfer8 on Dec 5, 2001

I can relate to what you say that the new generation is a little different from watching the relationships that the sisters of my wife have.  I have become good friends with the boyfriend of my cuñada who is colombiano.  They have a good relationship and I do not see him display much of the machista attitude or hear her complain about him.  He is definitely a good guy and I hope they can work it out to get married.  They are both engineers but he just recently lost his job but has some inheritance money he is trying to figure out what to do with.

Thanks for the informative post..

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Bienvenido Kenfer..., posted by Kenfer8 on Dec 5, 2001

Kenfer,

You hit the nail on the head...even though I did charge a good portion of my trips on my credit card, and I'm still paying off....=0)

But, that's ok, because I'll have my doctorate degree in a year. Another thing, I like how you mentioned how Colombians have become more modern where the younger generation, both men and women are starting to have equal roles and goals in life. This is so true.

I have a question, because I read your profile, and I just wanted to know why do you think you may need to use an agency to meet Colombian woman if the freelance approach wont work? If I were you, and I myself will probably do the same if the agency scene doesn't work for me, is to start the freelance approach directly. I think you would have a better chance at finding a decent woman for a wife then.

To admit, I started using agencies because at the time, I didn't speak much Spanish, and I wasn't all that familiar with Latin people. Now, I'm starting to feel different. I feel like most of the better candidates are not members of agencies, and if I would like to meet then, then I should go out and mingle with them, and stop using the agencies as a crutch (or something like that).

I have a friend that lives near me. He's from Bogota, and he's been here for about 4 years now. He earned a bachelor's degree in civil engineering de La Universidad de los Andes. He just finished an MBA here at Penn State 2 years ago. We are good friends, but he is the shy type and doesn't have much experience.

He tried to date all kinds of girls here in the states, especially this one American girl, but she walked all over him, and didn't realize or appreciate what she had. Also, there was this other girl here from Bogota too. They were the same age, and they lived on the same block back home in Bogota, but they never new each other until they arrived in the US. The girl is a medical doctor from her country. My friend was kind of interested in her too, but that girl decided to go chasing after a Gingo who played music in a band for the local bars, and is legally blind, and cannot drive. The girl had a full scholarship from Colombia to study in a graduate program for public health, but she got all wrapped up into dating the American guy and going to bars and parties. She dropped out of school. Now, both of them are somewhere in Miami. The guy is playing music, and the girl is his favorite groupie.  

Anyway, I told my friend to start looking for girls in Colombia. He's going home for vacation this Christmas. I will be going to Cali in the spring, and if I meet a nice girl I may hook him up.

Take Care,
Aaron