The Desperation Factor.. C'mon guys, get real here

[Rich]

... in response to And about dating AW, posted by genode on Jul 9, 2001

I quite like american women (there are loads of them in London ). Strange accents though and they don't seem to speak the Queens english !

[KADAMS]

... in response to Re: And about dating AW, posted by Rich on Jul 10, 2001

I date AW's just for fun, I tell them I have no money, they won't last long. We usually go to the movies, many times they show vacation photos, including the boyfriends. I whip out the wallet and show them a vacation pic of me at the pool in Los Cabos with Ms. Noviembre, first thing they say is "wow, she is thin".

don't bother me a bit!

[pack]

... in response to And about dating AW, posted by genode on Jul 9, 2001

last time i dated an american woman was 1994, never again!

[yc]

... in response to Re: And about dating AW, posted by pack on Jul 10, 2001

I understand where you are coming from.  It has been since 1993 or 1994 since I last dated an AW.  Like yourself, never again!!!

[newby Jim]

... in response to And about dating AW, posted by genode on Jul 9, 2001

Not all gals are like that. I'm not going to get into the battle of the sexes, but think of it this way.. how many guys do you know that are 1.controllong/jealous 2.druggies 3.in love with their ex, still depressed 4.no ambition 5.don't even make an effort to be attractive 6.in love with themselves so much they cant love anyone else 7.too into their careers to have any time 8.broke, or 9.has massive problems with the ex/kid ??  If you only knew how hard it is to find a cute, nice, ambitious guy. On the other hand, I know a lot of cute gals that are just plain nuts or like guys who treat them like sh!t also. It goes both ways, guys.

[Pete E]

... in response to American men..., posted by newby Jim on Jul 9, 2001

I'm not an american woman basher,I know there are lots of nice women out there,but usually the ones who are available to us we are not interested in.Looks is very important to a guy,and most of us are looking for what we can't have here.
My theory of why most people who are single are not in a relationship is they can't have what they want and don't want what they can have.I think if you look at your choices you will find the same.In Colombia there are younger and prettier women availiable to the average guy,so a guy can have what he wants.Guys tend to be very visual.One thing you notice in Colombia is very few people,particularly women,are fat.They take great care in their appearance and are very femine.
So guys have a magic solution,Colombia.For a woman I would say get your body in very good shape.I hung out in singles groups for years and saw alot of fat women wondering why no guy was interested in them.Take a good look at the clothes you wear,not that they have to be especially stylish,but do they make your body look good?Guys don't care if you wear the same dress every day if you look good in it.Join a Gym.
The other question,is there some magical geographic shift that would change your odds?Probably not to the extent we get by shopping Colombia,but where I live,San Jose,California,just passed Alaska as the worst place for a guy so I think that makes it the best place for a woman.There are lots of guys who have good educations and good jobs that can't find a woman they are interested in.
It's just like economics 1A,supply and demand.About love and feelings,when you find what you are looking for then that can develop,for men and women.
Just give your brother a kick in the butt to go to Colombia.He won't be sorry.
Personal note.I married a woman who is very beautifull to me and is also a very good person,everybody loves her,including me.She is 23 years younger than me and there is no way in the world I ever could have found someone like her here.

Pete

[yc]

... in response to Re: American men..., posted by Pete E on Jul 9, 2001

I beg to differ on the comment regarding looks.  I admit, looks does play a role.  But women are just as much into looks as men are.  At one time I use to think differently.  But after over hearing so many conversation between women where a man's look was at the center of the discussion, I had to rechanged my thinking.  Women are just as much visual creatures as men are.

I honestly believe most of the AM(those with noble intentions) that go to SA are not going solely to find a pretty face to marry.  That is just the icing on the cake.  They are going because there is a shortage of good AW.  Besides, is it fair to ask a nice guy to seach the nation over just to find a good AW whenever and wherever one become available.  That would be ludicrous.  Why not just fly southward or wherever to choose from a more plentiful supply.

Most people that are against this method think it is all about looks... or a control thing.  But that is simply not the case, attractive women can be found right here in the US.  Personally speaking, there is no shortage of attractive AW.  The problem lies with those choice AW  attitude and their expectations.  Their demands are so high, no one but the top 1% can possibly meet them.  And if that does seem insurmountable enough, try finding a nice ugly women.  That is just as difficult.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Re: American men..., posted by yc on Jul 9, 2001

My experiences at least as I interpret them suggest something quite different.  At Latin Love where I would often hang out, I witnessed the selection process of many men.  Very few guys were even the slightest bit interested in anything other than the photos -- a bikini shot even better.   Women over 30 were rarely selected for appointments and if they were, they were most likely not pursued.  

This is not a case of insufficient quantities of good AW IMO.  There are plenty of good American women. The problem is that for too many guys a good woman is defined more in terms of her looks than in terms of her character.  

I think both men and women have unrealistic expectations about the opposite sex. Pete hit it right on.  We want a woman to match the image we have of ourselves however our image is not in touch with reality.  (-: Average Joe who is a nice guy wants a pretty sexy wife and he's bitter when the pretty gal at work prefers the more attractive guy. Well this is life....

A lot of guys have figured that they can beat the system by traveling South.  I say go for it and more power to them.  I travel South as frequently as I can.  I do take exception however to simplistic notions of culture where AW are portrayed as evil and manipulative and AM as victims.  Come on we can do better than that.....

El Diablo

[yc]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: American men..., posted by El Diablo on Jul 10, 2001

Hi,

I am in total agreement with your observations.  I have observed similar instances myself.  AM as well as AW can have unrealistic expectations.  To be totally objective here, I attributed quite abit of my own mis-adventures with AW to the fact that I placed such a high value on looks.  But that was my younger days too.  It wasn't until I re-evaluated my proirities, that I realized the problem lied with me as well as the EX.  From that point onward, I began viewing life through a different lens.  Here is what I've learned:  1) A person's character is not considered until way too late in to the relationship.  2) Women go into a relationship thinking they will mold a man into what they believe he should be. 3) Men go into a relationship thinking she will not change(I'm not refering to the negative). 4) A person always puts on their best face in at the beginning of a relationship... unless he/she is a total jerk.  5) Success, huge bank account, big house(s) and cars does not make a good or suitable husband(although that would depend on who the women is)... THIS IS NOT PLAYA HATING.  Just being real. 6) Having a beautiful woman on your arm that make other men envy you does not mean she'll make a good wife(That is dabatable depending on the guy).

Anyways, I was hoping that the crop of men flying south would be more in touch with reality then trying to even the odds.  Having a beautiful wife is great, but I do not believe it is a God given right... some guys would say that is dabatable.  Sooner or later her looks is going to wear-off.  If you are hoping for that 50 or 60 Year Anniversary there is going to have to be something of substance there... and I don't mean sex(That's debatable also).  As you said, if can find a beautiful latina for a wife the more power to you.  But if the sole reason for doing so is to even the odds, then I believe these guys are missing the mark... and doing these women(especially of she is a good person) a dis-service.  No offense intended.

Just my .02

Thanks for the response.

[rick13]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: American men..., posted by yc on Jul 10, 2001

Right on the money. It's funny how soooo many AM are just as shallow and picky as the AW they accuse. SO Much anger is  directed at the Aw for putting such premium on looks and money.Yet these guys go south and become total hypocrites. Doing exactly what they are angry at AW for doing. Why are you angry at AW who will not date men 20 years older? Most men would not. For not dating men who are overweight or not good looking enough? How many men would date that type of woman?

 When most men go south, They seek the most beautiful woman they can get,and get pickier than any AW they accuse..  They choose a woman,not truly knowing her charecter,her deepest hopes and dreams,but mostly by outer appearance.  because few even take time to learn her language. So how in the world can you really get to know each other?
 

  Many men will pass up a good foreign woman with English skills,for a knock-out who cannot speak a word of English.`Yeah!  most are in search of a soulmate alright!   Nope! Unfortunately,most are in search of a trophy. Then, money is thrown around to lure her.  But it is justified by saying no woman wants a man who has no ambition. Yet,everyone is angry at the AW for asking what his profession is. Why ? Don't you know all women want a man with ambition. How different is the typical AM,compared to the typical AW? Not much.                                        
 My apologies to many sincere men on this board who have found true love by seeking into her soul,and not judging solely on looks.You know who you are. But many others are so shallow and too much like their AW counterpart. Thinking they deserve more just because they hold a VISA and American money.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: American men..., posted by yc on Jul 10, 2001

Hey YC,

No offense taken.  I was only suggesting that it's a two way street.  I also think it's a bit unfair and self serving for us to point our fingers only at AW and entirely overlook our own shortcomings.  I understand why men and women both feel frustrated however the solution is not served by pointing fingers.

The solution is to get on a plane and go South.  (That was a joke!)

El Diablo

[yc]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American men..., posted by El Diablo on Jul 10, 2001

You are absolutely correct El Diablo.  It is a two way street and finger pointing is useless activity best avoided.  I understand your argument regarding problematic AM.  I know my share of them.  They are mostly to blame for many their own problems... not to mention partially responsible for some of the bad AW out there and the mess good AM have gotten from these women.  The same would hold true for bad AW(not all AW) out there.  I was just making an argument for AM with noble intentions at heart.  It just seems that their side of the story is never heard.  I would even expand on that by saying "any noble person."  I would have and have made the same argument in favor of AW that had good intentions at heart.  Good people are good people, regardless of their sex, race or color.  It is usually good people who is left with the mess created by these problematic individuals.  It is just ashame that so few good people ever make to the point of actually getting together.

More can be said on this subject but I think you got the message.

Take care!!!

PS:  I am going to the better hunting grounds!!!  It would be a tragedy to know of the opportunity down there and not take advantage of it.

[rick13]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: American men..., posted by El Diablo on Jul 10, 2001

El Diablo, you are right on the money on your post.AM are not victims as they claim. There are plenty of AM who cheat,abuse,are unemplyed,fat,unmotivated,socially enept,sloppy,lazy ect. AM do ave a choice to say no. I think it angers men that AW are too picky and do not find them attractive. Meanwhile, most of these men are truly in denial of what they really look like.

    Do men like dating older women they do not find attractive? I think you are correct in assuming if a man could not get a young cute girl in a foreign country,he would not take a chance of flying to Columbia,deal with language and cultural barriers,and most likely have to be sole provider and baby sitter till she gets her feet wet.Also, taking the risk that she may become a different person over time.

 No,what we do for pretty women we will not do for plain older ones.                                                  
   I also do not believe a LW would choose to marry a man she barely understands,one who cannot truly relate to her culture, or one of a different generation(older) if he were poor,or if her country was thriving.

  Women have low threshold for old and poor. But will put up with alot from a penny less young stud. Why???  I guess the younger man is the true preference (looks and age do matter to more than you think) ,but women are very practial and will take the man with a future. Is that about love?...... don't know.`

   I heard many women do not marry the man they were truly in love with. The men that truly made her feel love were either undependable or did not ask he to marry him. So many marry the one who does ask, the dependable one,though she may love him ,she is not in love with him. I thought that was a bit sad.  

 I want a woman who would choose me in any situation. Not because I am the practical choice.I want her to think I am the best thing that ever happened to her. I want to feel that.

   I think many men settle for that feeling in order to have a beautiful woman. I thrive on a woman who also is willing to say often that she finds me sexy. I thrive on her prodly taking my hands as we walk along the street. Nuzzling up to me for a kiss.  Hey! I need to hear compliments too! I need to feel special too.  It shoul dnot be one sided,with me being the one always trying to keep her happy and make her feel wanted.

 And no, I am not a hypocrite, there are times in choosing two women I chose the one who was not so pretty but she made me feel special.

   Someone said if you want to keep a woman make her feel wanted and safe. I agree in part,but I think many of the men who lose their wives do just that,and she still leaves.That is why so many get discouraged and bitter. I bet most of the divorced men here treated their wives just like that,and she left anyway. I have seen more success when a man makes the woman sweat. I know men with latina girls that treat them like gold,and the women are not such angels.latinas for some reason hate calm and love conflict.But ultimately, if you want to keep her,make sure she is madly and wildly in love with you first. Otherwise nothing you can do will guarentee she stays for the long haul.                                                        

   Also, though some here love to bash AW,it is commonly known that many latin and foreign men think to attain an American blond woman is the ultimate prize. I have seen plain chubby blond women go to a latin party and get hit on all night as though she were Catherine Zeta-Jones.I am not making this up, I think the latin men on this board can confirm that.I guess the grass is always greener. These LM treat the AW better than they would treat their LW. AW will always have a choice, but I think they have high standards,and no patience when it omes to language and cultural barriers. I hate to say this, but it seems most would rather turn to women then try to date foreig men:)

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: American men..., posted by rick13 on Jul 10, 2001

Rick,
A couple of comments.What really jumped out at me was your statement that latin women love conflict.There are many different latin cultures,so what is true in northern Mexico can be untrue in Colombia.My Colombian wife hates conflict.If I even raise my voice to make a point on something it bothers her,so I have had to avoid doing that.Whats funny is she likes to watch these Novelas(spanish soap opera)where there is all this conflict,but it is definetly not what she wants in her personal life.
Second,I think the Colombiana will look at the whole picture in choosing a husband.By being Americans our status and value is elevated.America is looked up to because we seem to have so many things going for us that others do not.And of course we can offer a better lifestyle for them and their children.Of course this is part of the appeal.
The best candidate for a wife is one that has life experience and maybe has been burned real bad by some Colombian playboy.Now looks are not as important as stability,opportunity and faithfullness.So when we can offer the lifestyle she wants it is easier for her to fall in love with us.
This may sound very materialistic but let me give you an american example.Say a guy goes to medical school and becomes a doctor.Now he has alot more appeal to a woman,not only because of money but social status.Many women will be attracted to him that would not if he was a factory worker.Because they are attracted to the status and the lifestyle it is easier for them to fall in love with him.
Yes you want to see that they love you,but it may not be entirely for your good looks and dynamic personality.Other factors are important.
So in Colombia we have the kind of social and economic power that the MD does here.We are in high demand.Its hard to believe untill you have experienced it.There is nothing like having alot of good looking women interested in you to boost your spirits.Its downright addicting!Of course you want to be carefull what type of girl you are getting,but there are many very sweet sincere ones.The chances of getting a woman of extremely high moral character is much higher than here I think,because oif their family and religious culture.Just the opposite of Russia but thats another story.

Pete

[genode]

... in response to American men..., posted by newby Jim on Jul 9, 2001

I don't want to escalate this anymore either.  I see it on both sides of the sexual coin as well.  The dating scene does suck, big time.  I just wish it wasn't so hard for the rest of us without baggage to hook up.  I did not mean to offend you if I did earlier, but that has been my experience.  It really seems most of the good ones are taken.

All I want is to find a woman who will love me for who I am and be my best friend.  Make the same effort to look appealing to me as I would to her so that we can romance and love each other to no end(emotionally and physically) and share the same beliefs and goals in life.  It really doesn't matter where I find her but it is hard to find here.  Off to the gym...see you all tomorrow.