hey dog, what's wrong with Argentinians??

[Traveler]

should I wait until you ask your "wife"??  why do you post about things you know nothing about??

[JUAN]

... in response to hey dog, what's wrong with Argentinians?..., posted by Traveler on Jun 14, 2001

My country is better than yours!......NO!.....MY country is better than yours! Argh!

Of course a Colombian is going to think Colombia is the best, what are they going to say? Mexico is the best?

Mexicans, Salvadorans, Argentinians, Brazilians, Hondurans etc. feel their countries are the "best" too.

There is no such thing as which country is the "best".

I've said this before, there are beautiful women in EVERy country in latin America, Colombia isn't the only country in LA with beautiful women, though they seem to be more abundant in Colombia.

Follow Bret's advice but don't judge a whole country on one bad experience (if you have one.)

[Ralph]

... in response to It's childish really, posted by JUAN on Jun 15, 2001

Many years ago I worked with several people from Latin America. They of course were always complaining about how they were not treated fairly. How many people did not like them just because they were Latino etc. Of course that was most likely true to some extent.

Then in the course of talking to them I'd find that the Salvadorans hated Dominicans, the Hondurans hated somebody else, the guy from Nicaragua everybody hated etc etc etc.

I'd ask them why if they didn't like being hated by people just because they were Latino, why did they not have a problem hating an entire nationality for the same silly reasons? Never got a real good answer.

One would think victims of descrimination would be more in tune to how wrong it is, and less likely to inflict it on others.

It is all a form of generalizing.

[bret]

... in response to hey dog, what's wrong with Argentinians?..., posted by Traveler on Jun 14, 2001

man, i leave this board for a few weeks, only to come back and find argentina the first topic of conversation!!!

 the truth is that argentinas are some of the most beautiful women in the world. i mean hot!

 all this talk i hear between latins about who is better, or who is lower class, blah, blah, blah, is just nationalist pride, like the other guy said in his post. it doesn't mean anything more than that.

 again, i have a bit of experience in argentina, and i never, not even one time, felt as if i were being condescended or looked down upon in any way. and this was speaking spanish (very functional, but heavily accented and a little rough!) and going about my daily life in a country that most of, if not all of the latin world, views as very arrogant. i always felt very accepted and respected.

 if there is a problem between argentines and other latins, who cares? as long as the problem is not between argentines and me, i'm o.k. with it.

 i don't form opinions about salvadorens based on what a mexican might say, or about mexicans based on what a texan might say, etc., etc., etc. i guess what i'm saying is i have my own experiences and then form my own opinions afterward!

bret

[Ralph]

... in response to hey dog, what's wrong with Argentinians?..., posted by Traveler on Jun 14, 2001

There is definite National Pride/ pecking orders established in Latin America.

Just about any Nation in LA has one other Nation they do not like for some reason.

The funny part is:

1-Colombians don't like Argentinans because the Argentinans think they are "better" than everybody else

2- the the Colombians turn around and don't like Mexicans because they are "low class".

So basically the same behaviour they don't like in Argentinans, is the exact way they treat Mexicans.

It all comes down to National Pride.

[Pete E]

... in response to here is the deal, posted by Ralph on Jun 15, 2001

Ralph,
I think you described it right.I just checked this out with my wife (Colombiana)and she said it is trueEven though she has Mexican friends she thinks are great she does have this general attitude toward them.She also reiterated"I don't like Argentine people",even though I don't think she knows one.Probably all the other latin countries fall somewhere in between.I asked her why these attitudes anyway and she didn't get it.I guess it is built in cultural thinking.
Also,it was funny,she has a classmate at her english school who is from Venezuela.A couple of months ago there was some rift between the governments of Colombia and Venezuela and this lady stopped speaking to her.I guess she was a symbol of Colombia to her.
Discrimination by culture is silly and I'm not sure we should be expounding on it but there are these general sentiments in the latin world.A friend of my wife is trying to get my wife a job at a local latin TV station where she works.If she does go to work there she had better keep her attitudes about Mexicans to herself.Or maybe,hopefully they will change.

Pete

[buzzy]

... in response to Re: I think you nailed it, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2001

This is an interesting subject.  When I went to the agency in Hermosillo Mx approx (5) of the (10) ladies I dated asked me if Americans disliked and discriminated against Mexicans in the U.S. I wish now I had asked them for the basis for their  particular concerns.  I assume it comes from all the news about the border crossing problems.  And I've always heard that Canadians don't like Americans.  That they consider us over-encroaching polluting orgres.  And of course I heard that the Germans, Dutch, French, Russians, and Brits all hate and distrust each other.  Of course not to forget the Irish who hate the Brits!  And vice-versa.  And the animosities between the Japanese and Chinese, and between the Vietnamese and Cambodians, and between North and South Korea, and between India and Pakistan.    On and on it goes, international rivalies, hatreds, and distrusts. But thank goodness there's enough cooperation to keep us from nuking each other.  Thank God for the U.S.A.!

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: I think you nailed it, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2001

Most "prejudices" are based on ignorance. Your wife was probably brought up being told "things" about Argentinans.
If all you ahev to go by is what you hear from most of the people you know, that is what you believe.

Getting to have positive experiences with that same group of people, can usually change your mind.

I had a friend that was a really nice guy with one huge problem. He was very prejudiced. He did not like Africa Americans. he would from time to time say some very ugly things. Why because he had been mugged twice, by African Americans. Now because of bad experiences, he was prejudging an entire group of people.

We had MANY knock down drag out arguments over this. As hard as I tried, he would not budge. One night I kicked him out of my car, because I couldn't take listening to that nonsense any more.

Well a few short years later, he was livid one night because he heard a co worker call his new boss the "N" word! Apparently his new boss was a great guy. They hung out together, went to Atlantic City together, met the families etc. I guess having a very positive experience was enough to
help rid him of some prejudiced ideas.

I nicely pointed out that a few years earlier he would be making the same comments and he didn't remember!

Good experiences go along way to helping one realize how silly some ideas can be.

[Traveler]

... in response to Most likely change, posted by Ralph on Jun 15, 2001

wow, you mean there are people on this board who can actually say something that doesn't have to do with Colombia!!??

while I totally agree you can't be prejudice based on the action of a view, there are some generalities in cultures that cannot be ignored.  Also, its my experience that culture is the key to attitude and not race.  

I have never felt more at home than watching a baseball game in San Pedro de Macoris in the Dominican Republic and being a grain of salt in a sea of pepper. at the same time I haven't felt more UNcomfortable in some situations working in St. Thomas.

[Dave H2O]

... in response to Re: I think you nailed it, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2001

Hi Guys,

You guys seem to get the big picture. Most Hispanics have negative attitudes about fellow Latinos/as from other countries. On the surface all may appear well, but just beneath, they have these prejudices. If you live in an area with a low Hispanic population, they may get along better. Where I live, Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, Hispanics tend to prefer to group with others from their own country.

What's wrong with Argentineans? Every country has good and bad women. I try to focus on the individual. The only thing I can think of is if you are a vegetarian. Most Argentineans are very fond of their meat. In fact, meat from Argentina is known throughout the world for its excellent quality. I was at an Argentinean barbecue last weekend. They eat just about every part of the animal. They are not known for rice and beans. There are many people of Italian and German ancestry there also, along with their native foods.

I was just passing through from the Asian Board. I have dated mainly Latinas for the last 30 years (most countries) and was married to one for 12. I have a weakness for them. I am now engaged to a Filipina and notice many similarities in the culture, food and language. Good luck to you guys and your Latinas.

Dave H.

[DallasSteve]

... in response to hey dog, what's wrong with Argentinians?..., posted by Traveler on Jun 14, 2001

Lo peor de los Argentinos es que no ganaron el medal oro de futbol en los Olimpicos 1996.  Lo dejaron en manos de los africanos.  Que pena!

Pero en serio, yo conozco algo de los Argentinos.  Yo era casado con una Argentina para 2 años.  Me fui a Argentina para 2 semanas.  Pase una semana en Iguazu y una semana en Buenos Aires.  Me parece que vos es de Argentina.  Casi nigun otro dicen "vos" y "sos".  Si le ofendi, perdoname.  Hay mucho bueno de Argentina y los Argentinos.

Las mujeres de Argentina son bellas.  Quizas mas bellas que las Colombianas, quienes son muy bellas tambien.  Y tambien, creo que Iguazu es la tierra mas linda del mundo.  Espero regresar algun dia.

Cada persona es distinta pero me parece que hay una forma de ser comun en Argentina.  Quizas mas en Buenos Aires.  Me parece que los Argentinos son muy criticos, negativos, y peleonos.  No todos, pero muchos.  Me parece que es casi la tristeza del tango vivido en cada dia.  Que quieren discutir mucho y pelear con lo demas.  Estoy equivocado?  Que piensa usted?

Gracias por haber venido a este grupo.  Las cartas han sido bastante aburridas recien.  Es divertido leer las cartas de usted.  Espero su contesta.

Steve

[Traveler]

... in response to Lo malo de los Argentinos?, posted by DallasSteve on Jun 15, 2001

habia "posts" de "vos" en este foro hace 2 semanas.

the reason for my post, was this particular person posted that Argentines were the "worst" but gave no reasoning for this claim not even what they were supposed to be the worst at.

[DallasSteve]

... in response to tambien, se usa el "vos" en Ur..., posted by Traveler on Jun 15, 2001

No lo sabia.  Hay tantas cosas que no conozco!  

Esa persona a quien refiere seria HoundPerro?

Hasta luego, vos.

[Traveler]

... in response to Re: tambien, se usa el "vos" e..., posted by DallasSteve on Jun 18, 2001

a couple of weeks ago there was a discussion on this topic. Vos is used much more frequently than people think.  however, it is considered by some to be "bad" Spanish.

in fact, many people probably have never heard of it.  one reason is, it's not taught in Spanish class, and most latinos in the US are from "tu" countries,  Puerto Rico, Mexico, Cuba  so it goes relatively unnoticed in the US.

believe me, vos IS the vernacular in Central America and the Argentina, Uruguay, and Py.

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Re: tambien, se usa el "vos&quo..., posted by Traveler on Jun 18, 2001

The University of Chicago Spanish/English English/Spanish Dictionary has a very good section about regional differences, (including maps) in Spanish (like "vos" and other stuff like that). It also has a good explaniation of the grammer rules, all the tenses, irregular verbs etc. and of course a gazillion words you can look up. And when she gets here, your lady can use it too (or you can leave one with her as a gift when you visit) because it has the same type of stuff written in Spanish explainng about English grammer, tenses, irregulars etc. I recomend it highly, it is availble at any decient bookstore for under $10.00 (actually about $7.00 I think) in paperback. Also comes in a large type format for about $2.00 more. If you're only going to have ONE dictionary, this is the one you want.