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Author Topic: "vos" "tu" and "usted" recap  (Read 21365 times)
Traveler
Guest
« on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

"tu" is the way to go in the Caribbean, Mexico, Venezuela, and Spain
I think Colombia as well although I know their Spanish is pretty formal so they use usted frequently

I don't know about the Andean countries or chile


"vos" is actually quite frequently used not just in Argentina.  In Central America it is the common form.  and Uruguay and Paraguay as well.

vos has differnet conjugations than tu.    tu eres                   vos sos
                                                          tu tienes                vos tene's (accent on last e)


                                                          tu pones (accent on the o)               vos pone's(  accent on the e)

note that in Portugues the common form is   voce

vosotros is used commonly only in Spain

usted comes from the very formal greeting (su merced) and was transformed into usted.

tu was actually the original formal form.  

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Paiute
Guest
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to "vos" "tu" and "..., posted by Traveler on May 17, 2001

I speak, read & write Spanish. Married a Colombian lady & lived 5 years & 5months in Medellin & visited much of Colombia. I had a professional translation business part of that time. I never heard "vos". It isn't used in Colombia.
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michael b
Guest
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: "vos" "tu" and &..., posted by Paiute on May 20, 2001

I just got off the phone with by lady in Bucaramanga and I asked her. She said in someplaces they use it, but for sure not in Bucaramanga nor Bogota. She said that if you use it the people will understand you but 'will think you're strange'. I asked a guy at work (native of Guatamala) and he said they use it all the time, especially with family or really good friends, he said the use 'tu' to fellow workers or in the store and 'Vd.' to the boss etc.
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Edge
Guest
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to "vos" "tu" and "..., posted by Traveler on May 17, 2001

I had a class with Maria last night and brought up using "vos".  She explained that she uses it all the time within her family.  What is kind of interesting is she said they never write using "vos".  She was a school teacher for many years in Argentina.  She said the children could never write using "vos" so it was difficult for them.  They would hear it all the time but when it came time to write, they could not write using it.

She has an interesting history.  She is married to a German.  Around 1965 her and her sister came to U.S. to visit a cousin who had married a norteamericano.  They wanted to visit here and also practice their english.  At that time cargo boats also would have passengers so they traveled and visited many places making their way here.  On the return trip they took a German registered boat and her future husband worked on the boat.  So they met that way.  They got married a year later.  The only common language they had was  that they both spoke a little english, so that is how they communicated.  The husband wanted to live in Argentina because he loved it there, especially the many different types of meat.

Another one of my teachers is from Guadalajara and she met her norteamericano husband at a resort down there when she was on vacation.  They were attracted to one another although they were not able to communicate that well because they did not share a common language.  They got married within a few months down there.  So far all is well and she is very happy.

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Michael B
Guest
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to "vos" "tu" and "..., posted by Traveler on May 17, 2001

Hey, this was fun, next week can we cover 'Ser versus Estar'?
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denvermike
Guest
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to "vos" "tu" and "..., posted by Traveler on May 17, 2001

Just my thoughts,

I use the formal third person you "usted" until the person I'm talking to begins using the informal "tu" tense to me, then I switch to using the informal.  I let them set the tense. That way you can't go wrong. Going to the informal tense too soon may be considered a little rude or forward by some people, but they know you are a gringo and they will cut you some slack. The only exceptions is when referring to children or pets.  Always use the informal tense in those situations.  

In Latin America you are never really required to use the informal plural. Spain is a different issue. If you are unsure use the formal tense.

mike

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Michael B
Guest
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: "vos" "tu" and &..., posted by denvermike on May 17, 2001

But "tense" has to do with time, past, present, future etc.  (ha, wait until the newbies find out there are 14 (if I remember right) tenses in Spanish.) But don't worry too much, you can get by with only 3 or 4 of them, leave that future subjunctive and all like that there to the natives and/or college level language teachers.

However, your plan (address them the same was they address you) is perfect, that's exactaly how I do it. They tend to be very strict about it in some places, I sure wouldn't address a Mexican cop as 'tu' unless he were my brother-in-law AND it was definetaly an 'off duty' occasion.

I just asked the Bolivian that I work with about 'vos' and he said that a lot of people in the western part of Bolivia use it (but he also said they were wrong to do so, that they should be using 'tu'--he didn't say it outright, but I think he meant the the poorly educated and/or lower socioeconomic levels were the ones that use 'vos'), except they chop the s and b the v, so that it comes out as 'bo' and they use a different congugation, particulary on irregulars. He also said that 'vosotros' is used only in Spain but that it is considered MORE formal that Usteds, not less. Personally, I've NEVER heard anybody say 'vosotros' except when explaining to you that "it just isn't used that much".

Hey, I also work with a Cuban, and a Gualtaman, I know some Colombians here in town, and there are a million Mexicans (both educated and non-educated) here and as a last resort I could alway ask my 'ex', the 'Tica' if we need a second (or 10th) opinion. I'm sure she'd tell us right, because after all, the only people in the New World who speak correctly are Costa Ricans (just ask her, ha ha).

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Edge
Guest
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: "vos" "tu" a..., posted by Michael B on May 17, 2001

The impression I got from my novia is that some of the people out in the Valley outside of town (less educated) use "vos".  It is very informal.  She does not use it much, except if a close friend uses it with her, from what she told me.
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Traveler
Guest
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "vos" "tu&quo..., posted by Edge on May 17, 2001

in Central America "vos" is used among close friends if they are women.  men use it among each other more frequently.

it is more of a "country" thing and is said by the more sophisticated to be "bad" Spanish.

don't worry about it too much.  you should be calling your sweety "tu" anyway

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Traveler
Guest
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: "vos" "tu" a..., posted by Michael B on May 17, 2001

there are many Spanish schools there.  their Spanish is actually considered archaic by some other latin countries
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Michael B
Guest
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Guatemalans speak quite well too, posted by Traveler on May 17, 2001

I'm sure they do, I was being facetious about my ex's typical C.R. prejudice...Tica's tend to see LA as "us versus all those d**&^% ignorant 'Indians'"
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Edge
Guest
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Guatemalans speak quite well too, posted by Traveler on May 17, 2001

I had a Guatemalan teacher for a little while.  He also worked construction with many people from Mexico.  He would tell me he had to laugh with some of the words they came up.  A few of the other students went down to Guatemala earlier this year to go to school and like it.  One guy is in Cuba right now for 2 weeks.  I would love to check out Cuba.
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bret
Guest
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Guatemalans speak quite well too, posted by Edge on May 17, 2001

cuba rules!!! i have been going there since '94. so, if you have any specific q.'s, just ask and i'll do what i can to help.

however, i don't know if i would want to study spanish there. the accent is not like anywhere in south america(except maybe costal venezuela, i've been told, can't say for sure, though). i think i would prefer a more traditional style of spanish, whatever that is? guetamala, peru, ecuador maybe. i think those are all good places to study spanish, and easy on the bank account, also!

mexico is not high on my list. sorry if i offend anyone!

cuba is full of cubanismos (cuban expressions). also, they have this funny way of talking around the issue, which i'm sure they have learned under fidel. also it's rapid fire spanish with lots of  double meanings.

but overall, cuba is one of my favorite hangouts. havana is cool and the countryside is even better!!!


bret

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Michael B
Guest
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to cuba rules!, posted by bret on May 17, 2001

Bret, how's the food situation in Cuba these days, for the people without access to tourist stores? Last I heard the common people are still on very short rations, like 1 liter of milk a week for 6y.o. and under, none after that, 1/2 kilo of meat a week. This from a co-worker who escaped there in 1997 or 98. He doesn't seem to like the "paradise", ala "what good are free hospitals if they have no medicine to give you?". Not really trying to start flaming, just wondering if it looks that way to you, especially when (if) you get out of the "tourist area".
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bret
Guest
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: cuba rules!, posted by Michael B on May 20, 2001

let me clarify my self on one item. that cuba is great as long as you are not cuban! at least in my view.

in '94, rations were very low and just about everyone was on the brink of malnutrition, except fidel, of course. but over the years, with the massive infusion of tourist dollars into both the gov.'s hands and the pockets of ordinary cubans through black market business, things are much better than before.

but let me say again, i'm very happy to be an american visiting and not a cuban national. practically no one has a job, and those that do make only $10 or $15 a month. doctors, lawyers, computer programmers etc, if they have a job at all, often work as black market taxi drivers, black market cigar salesman, tour guides, hookers, etc., just to get access to some hard cash.

those that live in the countryside and have no access to tourist dollars aren't so lucky, but the food situation is or has been better out of the cities because a lot of what is produced in the campo is stolen long before it makes it to the bigger cities.

(as a traveler, the farther away from the tourist areas the better the experience!!!)

so, it's not nearly as bad as 5 or 6 yrs. ago when the former u.s.s.r. gave them the big boot, but the situation is not great either.

if they have relatives in miami that send $$$ every month, then they can live an o.k. life (except for that whole freedom of speach and political repression thing), but that isn't everyone!

having said that, i don't know what is worse; cuba, or some other country in central america. places like guatamala with awful, abject poverty, no access to pre-natal care, terrible human rights record. just awful to be trapped in a place live that with no way top change one's future!

if some one said to me, "o.k., you can be hatian or cuban", i would take cuban, of course. but that doesn't make cuba a nice place to be cuban! it just means it's not the worst place in the western hemisphere.

though it is a beautiful country with lots of great experiences just waiting to be had, we, or i should thank or lucky stars that we are north americans with the opportunity to visit and return when we like! oh, how lucky we are!!!!

oh, by the way, don't worry about flamming me hombre, i'm not the sensitive type....anyway, good luck in denver!!! it is denver, right? i lived in aspen for 6 yrs.

bret

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