To Help or not to Help that is the Question

[Peter Lee]

Maricel called me today on the phone.   I told her to hang up and I would use my phone card to call back.  She said that there is only 2 email cafe's in town.  One was in a school and not working; the other is getting its server from Iligan and is being redone so it can accept a web cam.  She is not sure how long it will be out but it may take a week.  We talked for 1hr and 40 min cost was 20 bucks.  She found the doctor from Iligan comes on Tue and Fridays and she did see him Tuesday.  He put her on the same antibiotics she was on in Boracay along with pain medication coz of the kidney pain.   She was already feeling better when I talked to her.  I asked her how long a ride to Iligan she said it was 4 hours.  She also confirmed that a foreigner was in the next village and stayed 2 weeks visiting his wife’s family.  She thought that when I come again it would be ok to stay in Ozamis and visit her place for at least 3 days at a time.  She said that past her town are lots of Muslim villages and they can be trouble.  It was a relaxed talk coz she is on the antibiotics and getting better.  The conversation went to her dad, it was a sad story.  They had sold the cow and got 15000 for it.  Now dad is borrowing 60,000 with 20% interest and using his land as collateral.  The widening is getting very close and the house will have to come down in a few weeks.   I did not offer to help, she said that she knows I have lots of problems also and understood if I didn’t help.  She made sure that I knew that her Dad didn’t know she asked for help that it was her idea.  That would mean Dad at the age of 58 would have to pay 1000 peso per month on interest.  I wonder how much money he generates on his 2 hectare farm.  
She mentioned that her dad married late at 35 and now in his old age had to raise 4 daughters and send them to school.  I reminded her that I was old too but she sees us differently.  On the tip of my tongue I wanted to say that I would help her dad but I bit my lip.  I wanted to contribute at least half.  That would be $545 I could live without that.  
My plans right now is do what Ray suggested, that is to wait and let them build the house.  I can always come in and help them later if it becomes a real hardship.   She did not want to sell the motorcycle coz she says that when I come back to live with her in the PI soon I will need it coz of my bad hip.   I ask her that I could help her dad if I spent the money for my plane trip in Feb for the house I could do that but not both.  She said to come and not worry about the house, that seeing me was more important.    
We talked more about her going back to Cebu where she can email me anytime.  She did not want to stay with her Aunt but ask if would be ok to rent a place for 2000 per month for her to stay in Cebu.  I thought that would be a great idea and she would still visit the aunt and that part of the family.   This was my original suggestion coz she will be in constant communication with me, there are countless email cafés in Cebu.  I asked if she would bring the motorcycle and she said no.  The reason she gave was when renting someplace the bike could be stolen.  I ask her if she used the motorcycle at home and she said that she would ride her mom to the market to see goats and other animals being bought and sold.   Maricel does not sound anxious to come to the US, she wants me to retire in the PI and asks me about it each time we talk or chat.  So we made out that when she feels better and finishes her antibiotics she will go to Cebu and rent a place and do the paper work.    I know Raquel you can understand her better than anyone as you are a Filipina.  I read your posts to me and they tell the other side of the story.   But this time she did not sound so sick on the phone like last week.  She has 5000 peso left which is plenty for her till she gets back to Cebu.  I just wonder how much I should send her in Cebu as her rental place will be about 2000 peso a month.  Food is sometimes more expensive than rent unlike the US.  I had planed to send her $100 living at her mom's house, but in Cebu $200 should do it.    She wanted to go to Manila and get a job for the months that she is waiting for me to return.  I told her that the money I send for food and housing will be more than she will earn and to not do anything but process the paperwork on her list.  My last thoughts are that keeping from helping her Dad is very hard for me.  I think that I am doing the best thing by letting things happen without my help.  If I was going to help at a later time I would go and visit asses the situation and see what the best way to help when I am there.    

[Febtember]

... in response to To Help or not to Help that is the Quest..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

utPeter,
Maricel have good idea not to stay in her Aunt once she's already in cebu.I prefer to rent a place to live too than living with my relatives.$200 dollar amount monthly is good  enough for her.She can even find  inexpensive place lower than 2000.As long as she try to live in a decent area far from squatter she be okey.With 2000 pesos rent a month I'm sure that it be a nice decent place she get.
About her Dad loan 60,000 plus 20 percent interest for me really a bad idea.This people already know that his daughter married a foriegner so it is easy for this people to take advantage on them.Nobody in philippines wants you to loan that kind of amount of money ,of course they know her daughter marry foriegner.And how do her dad pay the 1000 monthly?Don't tell me they never eat.Farmer in philippines never get much income.So it be real hard.Her dad be working hard in order to pay the interest and cannot get out of his debt beleive me.
Peter the best way to help her dad is offer him to collateral the land on you thru maricel name.By that they never think that the money you send them is for give away but they will be obligue to pay you back.They can arrange that and go to public attorney so they can notarize everything.If you never do now,remember that tomorrow or much sooner than someday that problem be yours too.You can help her dad by loaning him money and collateral the land so by that they will never pay any interest and your helping them in that way.What will happen if her dad can't pay on the person he loan? sure enough they take the land and of course destroy the house because they build their house where the collateral land right?No matter what happen you still be part of her family problem.You are the only person whom they run to someday.Think abo it.Raquel

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: To Help or not to Help that is the Q..., posted by Febtember on Oct 9, 2003

Hi Raquel,
Wow!!  You have some real strong and  good ideas.
You are right if they get into trouble and can’t pay the loan and they take the land and the house it will be in my hands anyway right.  
But you know what you said earlier, what did they do before they knew me?
The parents are not asking me for money and they have it already arranged to get the loan for the 20%.  
Maricel ask me if I could help her Mom and Dad.  She said that it was so sad to see.  She ask me if I could help, I said sell the motorbike, no she said that I would need it when I return and I use it coz of my bad hip.  
I offered the money I will have for the plane ticket to see her in February to  pay for the house.  She said she would rather see me in Feb than use that money to pay for the house.  
Ray and some of the others think it is a good idea to wait and let the Dad get the loan and build the house.   I think that is also a good idea.  
For Maricel to put the land in her and my name as collateral and not charge any interest also sounds good.  
Let me think about it and see what input others have about it.  
Raquel, what disturbs me is that you said no one loans money for such high percentage for that amount.   Right now the parents don’t have a choice, I have met the Mom but not the Dad.  They are in an area I really can’t comfortably go.   According to Maricel her Dad is very arthritic and has trouble doing the farm work some days.  
Using your idea of giving them the loan with no interest and buying them some cows and piglets to earn money to pay me back.  

[Febtember]

... in response to Re: To Help or not to Help that is the Q..., posted by Febtember on Oct 9, 2003

Peter,
I think the letter mess up in my post.The Ut in my about is next to ur name.I'm sorry about that.raquel

[Dave H]

... in response to To Help or not to Help that is the Quest..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Hi Peter,

Your post sounds good overall. I would agree with Howard. You are now more aware of the situation and the family has done the best they can to deal with the problem on their own. It wouldn't be a bad idea to help out with what you can afford in a timely manner, as to help prevent your father-in-law from getting deeper into debt. I would now classify this as one of those times that I would do what I could to help.

Dave H.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Help... , posted by Dave H on Oct 9, 2003

Yes it does sound like a time to help.   Non the less I will hold off helping till after the new house is in place and the loan has been made.   I feel more comfortable doing it that way.  I don't think anyone would leave the dad in such debt at his age and having the responsability to raise two more daughters.   The question is timing, I choose to wait till after all is done and as suggested pay the vendors directly when all is done.  It is nice to vent the problems to others on this site and get different ideas.  It gives me a guide by seeing what others would do.

[nealt]

... in response to Re: Help... , posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

I would help now it may make a very big diff in what they build back also the quality of house that is built back,it may save money down the road
tneal

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Re: Help... , posted by nealt on Oct 10, 2003

Noted, thanks

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Help... , posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Hi Peter,

You are right...I think timing is just about everything. The key is helping, but not making them dependent. Good luck!

Dave H.

[Howard]

... in response to To Help or not to Help that is the Quest..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Peter,

I have a slight advantage, because I have known Gerlie for almost two years now.  She has proven to be trust worthy and I have no doubt that She places my best interest over anyone elses.  I also spent a lot of time with her Tatay while I was there.  I have talked to him once or twice on the phone and feel that we have a pretty good relationship.  It is my opinion that he is a very honorable man.  Without Gerlie in the equasion, I feel I can trust him.  With her in it, I KNOW I can trust him

Knowing her family, this is what I would do.  If you plan on going back in the next few months, I would save the amount you feel comfortable giving and have her father get the invoices for the work he has done.  I would pay the invoices directly to the vendors, builders, etc... until I ran out of what I had to offer.

If I wasn't able to travel in a few months time.  I would give the money to Gerlie with the express instructions to do what I said above.  Pay the vendors directly with the money I sent.

Also, Gerlie and I have learned this the hard way,  everyone in the barangay knows your girl is married to an American.  Make SURE the builders don't, ESPECIALLY if you don't intend on picking up the tab!  No matter what her father says to them, the builders will assume YOU will pay and will inflate the prices accordingly, making it even more difficult for her father to ever repay the loan!

There is a lot to consider here, but if you're going to help anyway, you might as well do it in a timely fashion and save her father the ridiculous interest they are gonna make him pay.

What ever you do, make sure you do it with a clear conscience.

Keep the Faith!  

H

[Peter Lee]

... in response to My Take, posted by Howard on Oct 9, 2003

Good advice thanks, specially about paying the vendors personally.  That way I am sure on less problem to worry about.

[nealt]

... in response to Re: My Take, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

why don"t you loan him the money at a much lower %