Midnightgirl

[logan_jiang]

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

This church sounds like the penetente. They were also a branch of catholic that took a wide swing as well. I went to college in a town that was mostly Catholic. Very cool place, with a lot of history. The penetente are supposedly gone but, it is more of cult than a religion. No marraige outside of the chruch and all that. They also liked to beat themselves with whips while walking long distances. There were also ceremonial crucifixtions. Excuse any spelling pleaze

[greg]

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

I wonder if those Christians dressed in white that hang outside Super Markets with large donation cans are from this Iglisa ni Cristo Church. My opinion is that it would be a huge mistake to get seriously involved with a person from this Church especially if you got a mind of your own. What man in his right mind would fellow such nonsense? Just to make your Mahal happy? What about your own happiness??? It's doubtful that a Guy that have his own brief in Jesus can accept such a teaching, their house shall always be divided. It's best to be involved with a woman that share your briefs in Jesus Christ, we got our pick of countless good Pinays, so why pick a Pinay with a difficult religion full of difficulties??? It shouldn't take a fool to see that there's something wrong with this Church especially if the members refuse to read the bible for themselves. Let me tell you of a story..My ex America Pinay was the most gorgeous lady my eyes have ever beheld, but she was very religious, she didn't want us watching Tv, she didnt want us going to the movies, she spent most of her days judging judging and judging. She made my life miserable, like walking on egg shells, rules rules rules. So, Ummmmmmm think about it, do you want to spend your life with a woman always reminding you to follow manmade religion rules and laws? I loved this American Pinay, she loved me, but I was just miserable with all these rules she wanted to enforce, she wanted to bound me, take away my freedom. My advice is don't walk but run fast from any Woman that's involved with such a Religion, if you marry her, your gonna be walking on egg shells all your days, with no peace. BTW, I know nothing about this Igilisa ni Cristo Church,  my opinion is based on what was posted in this tread. greg

[curt]

... in response to Amazing, posted by greg on Mar 20, 2001

Why do you have an opinion if you know nothing about the church or members?

[greg]

... in response to Re: Amazing, posted by curt on Mar 21, 2001

Where your email Addy? BTW, ever heard of own opinion based on what you read? If you don't like a person's post don't read it or reponse, it's that simple. I notice that you got a bad habit of flaming posters. Don't bother replying. greg

[Carl]

... in response to Amazing, posted by greg on Mar 20, 2001

n/t

[Lori]

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

for some time. I only had about five more "bible studies" to attend before I quit.
It is a very strict church. No dancing, gambling,no dating or marrying non church members. They follow the bible very strictly.
Their doctrine is made up that Jesus said only the members of "The Church of Christ" would be saved. Although my bible said "The Church of God"
They constantly preach about the Chatholic Church and it's evils. I'd say about 75% of their teaching is proving the Chatholic Church wrong. They constantly compare it to their church. It is almost hammered into your head.
They say that the date that their church was founded corresponds with thethe beginning of WW1 July 27, 1914. According to mathew 24:3-33and the begining of the end of the world. Anyway that is supposed to be their proof, that they are the one and only church that God accepts. You can not get to heaven but through their church.
Although I found the church members to be very loving and kind, most of them were living a lie. Wearing a mask to church, while outside of it doing things the church had forbidden. If you get cought you are put before a committee and judged and most likely thrown out forever. They have their own judge and jury.
I still have a few of their pamplets around the house, I think. One ex-member told me they were not always so strict. That in time, they made more and more rules. So many rules, in my opinion, it is impossible to follow them all, and be a "true" member.
-Lori

[greg]

... in response to I attended that church...., posted by Lori on Mar 19, 2001

How are You?? I'm preparing for my trip next month. Check out Lonely Planet at Yahoo.com; A wealth of travel information. Many different travel forums at "the Thorntree" Lonely Planet website. I found a very good forum for Vietnam travel, click on South-East Asian(mainland) at Thorntree Lonely Planet. I really found this website to be loaded with travel tips for traveling to every country in the world especially the Philippines. Plus you can post for advice. :-) greg

[JoeBravo]

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

Iglesia members can be quite fanatical about their religion. Like Midnighgirl said they will defend their religion no matter what. They are always gonna be right because they follow true Christianity according to the Bible. They don't celebrate any religious holidays because the Bible didn't say they can. Religious celebrations (ie Christmas, Easter etc) are considered sinful and paganistic. I've had pretty good friends that are Iglesias but I never dared discuss religious matters because it's just gonna end up with long sermons from them and they fall short of converting me. But of course just like other religions, there's gonna be the strict followers and the "loose" members. I knew some Iglesias that actually celebrated Christmas (secretly of course). They didn't want to convert out of Iglesia because they are gonna get berated and humiliated. And oh by the way, they have to give "mandatory" church donations. Any Iglesia members here, don't get offended. This is just based on my experience. If I'm wrong then I guess I'm wrong.

[rgg]

... in response to Iglesia Ni Cristo, posted by JoeBravo on Mar 19, 2001

Iglesia Ni Cristo is one powerful religious group here in PI.  Politicians, during election time, try to get the support of the INC, as it is believed that anyone supported by INC is a sure winner because of its wide-membership throughout the country.  

Iglesia members are very proud of the very their dome-like, immaculate churches.  To them, they had a share in putting this church in their locality, hence they contribute willingly everytime they go to church or their "Araw ng Samba" usually on Thursdays.

Members are encouraged to marry someone within the group.  However, if it is not possible, the INC member tries to convert his/her loved one.  Doctrine teachings are given prior to being a member.  From my observations on my INC friend, INC members follow strictly the rules, teachings lay down by their ministros, though still there are some loose members as in any other religious group.

Unlike Catholics, where we have special devotions to the Blessed Virgin Mary, various saints to intercede with our
petitions, INC believes only in Jesus Christ.

Just my thoughts on INC.... rgg

[SteveG]

... in response to Midnightgirl, posted by greg on Mar 19, 2001

Greg,

 I had quite a bit of literature either my former fiancee (who was a member) or a minister of the Iglesia ni Cristo gave me.  Since this was back Oct 93, I don't remember for sure which of them actually gave me the info.  I do remember it consisted of a booklet with the history of the church dating back to the early 1900's, and a couple of magazines with a fairly detailed discussion of what they believe with Bible verses to illustrate(these are taken so far out of context to be almost funny if this wasn't so serious a subject - and I don't mean that to offend anyone with that statement.)   Also included was a listing of all the Iglesia ni Cristo Churches in the US at that time.  One thing I want to be sure to make clear is that even though "Iglesia ni Cristo" translates to “Church of Christ” in English, the Iglesia ni Cristo does not recognize the US Church of Christ as a Christian church.   In their eyes, they are going straight to he!! just like all the rest of us.   Sure you say, lots of people think their church is the only one, but that is just misguided individuals speaking.   In the case of the Iglesia ni Cristo, the church as an organization very clearly states in their literature that they are the ONLY Christian church on the face of the Earth.   Pretty weighty claim, huh??

 Have I ever told about being granted a personalized sermon in my honor at the Hong Kong Iglesia ni Cristo?      Because of the strict rule against marrying non members, my Fiancee took me to meet her minister one day.   She introduced me as a friend but he smelled right away that there was more than friendship between us.   So the next evening (Wensday) we went to church and I sat on the front row while she went to the women's section in the back.   Guess what the topic was for the sermon?   You got it right!  "The Evils of Marrying a Non-Member"   The preacher stood immediately in front of me and got boiling mad, his face turned red as he ranted on and on about how any member who dared to marry outside the church was doomed to He!!.   First he quoted the verse that Paul wrote about not being unequally yoked.  That was predictable - but the verses in the Old Testament about women marrying beings in the beginning of time who were half-gods which resulted in such long lives and how after the great flood that would not happen any more was used to justify why Iglesia ni Cristo members shouldn't marry non members.  What does that have to do with me, I thought??   Am I a semi-God???   My goodness!  LOL  At first my heart sank and then I got mad....I wasn't thinking very friendly thoughts towards him at that moment.     After it was over, we left and she didn’t seem to be overly shaken by what he said, but later she was.   One thing I noticed that all their members I met had in common is that they refuse to discuss the Bible or read it for themselves.   It’s almost as if they are afraid to see what it really says for fear that they might discover they have been lied to.   When I found out my Fiancee didn’t even have a Bible I bought her one and she flat refused to read it.   It’s very frustrating to try to help someone who refuses to help themselves.

 If I can ever find this literature again, I would be glad to mail a copy to whoever would be interested.     Again, when I have written about that church here before it was from that literature, not my own opinion.  
                                     
    SteveG

[Alvin]

... in response to Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 19, 2001

The Iglesia Ni Cristo church was formed in 1963 by a minister in the RP but they trace their roots back as the first church and only true church.  The main thing that they teach is that Christ was a man just like the rest of us.

They are well organized and all sermons are written at the main church and is read each Sunday by the minister.  The minister is not allowed to preach other than what is written for them to say each Sunday.  Each sermon is the same in all the churhes around the world each Sunday. They alway preach that you cannot marry a non member or you will be banned from the church.  

They also preach that when you die, your body stays in the ground until the return of Christ.  Members do have Bibles and do carry them to church with them and are encouraged to read the Bible with the interpretations that they have been indocrinated on members.

INC do not celebrate Christmas but rather have to give the money that they would spend on gifts to the Church.  They also have to pay their tithes each Sunday and in addition have to pledge a certain amount each year to be paid in December, but they have to give a certain amount each Sunday toward this pledge.  This explains the wealth of the church.  

In order to join INC, you have to go to Bible study and then pass a test (that traces the church back to the time of Christ  you are told that Christ formed the church but the church was hidden from man (?by the Catholic church) until it was re-discovered by father of the present head of the church in 1963.  When they pray each Sunday, God and Christ and the present head of the church are first in the prayer.

There is no doubt that this church is a cult and the members are encouraged to base their entire day around other members of the church.  The local church has pictures of the founding minister and his son who is the present head of the church.  Since the church teaches that Christ was a man, then Christ is a man just like the present head of the church. The members therefore equate the head of the church with Christ.

Despite the wealth of the church, they are not involved in any charitable activities.  All money is controlled by the main church in Manila.  The money is spent on building beautiful buildings that adorn the poor country side.

The church disciples the members frequently and many are expelled from the church to control other members.  The doors are even locked before services begins so that if you are late, you are not allowed to enter.

Regards

[SteveG]

... in response to Re: Re: Midnightgirl, posted by Alvin on Mar 20, 2001

Alvin,
 I guess I made one of those nasty generalities that are always being discouraged here when I said the members did not have Bibles.  OK, let me restate, my fiancée and her 4 friends who were members did not have a Bible and totally trusted their minister to tell them what to believe.  To trust someone else with something so important is inconceivable to me.   Another thing that was unique with my exposure to the Iglesia ni Cristo is that since it was in HongKong where real estate is phenomenally expensive the church building was an old abandoned office complex from the looks of it rather than the usual lavish white buildings in the Philippines.
 Don't want to argue with you, but unless my memory is totally bad, this church started somewhere around 1910, give or take a few years, after the founder, Felix Manalo(Manaldo?) supposedly locked himself away for several days and had a vision telling him to found a church.   At least that's what the church literature I once had said.
  Yeah, I remember them locking the door when the service was ready to start.   They even had to bring attendance cards and leave them outside for validation as proof of their attendance.   These were picked up on the way out.

  The sermons may be the same all over the world but this guy was looking me straight in the eye the whole time, so as far as I'm concerned he was talking to me and my fiancée only.  

  Your point about the church being hidden from man between the time of Jesus and the founding of the Iglesia ni Cristo is something I would like to comment on.   As you implied, their major "enemy" is the Catholic Church which is so strong in the Philippines and it's rituals/beliefs that really can't be supported by anything in the Bible.   Mainly what I speak of is the idea that you need to have an intermediary such as Mary or a Saint to take your prayers to God rather than him listening to you directly.   There is nothing in the Bible anywhere that even indirectly states this.   So when someone grows up believing this and then the Iglesia ni Cristo hits them with the truth that it is not necessary, many totally lose faith in the Catholic church and put their complete trust in the Iglesia ni Cristo.   Of course the fact that these things aren't in the Bible doesn't mean Catholics aren't Christians - only that they are doing something that isn't necessary.  These are my observations on the subject at least.

 Anyway, the bottom line is that I am glad there were other issues between myself and my fiancée that eventually caused us to call off the engagement rather than just this church.   It would be terrible to lose someone over their misguided beliefs only.
                                      SteveG

[Alvin]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Midnightgirl, posted by SteveG on Mar 21, 2001

Steve, you are right about what you have said except the church was formed in 1963 by Felix Manalo who just died in the last 15? years.  They claimed that their church is the oldest church --(and only true church-formed by Jesus Christ, who was a man just like Felix Manalo)-- in the world but that is was "apothosized" by the "false church" and rediscovered by the Felix Manalo in 1963.  Only the members of the "true church" will go to heaven during the rapture.  Church members will remain in their graves until the rapture and then go to heaven at that time.  Which means that heaven is empty at this time.

I am sure that the minister did exactly what you said.  This is how they control their members with intimidation.  They do ad lib as you said.  They generally try to get the fiance to convert which helps their membership tremendously.  

Regards

Alvin

[Alvin]

... in response to I agree with you but ...., posted by Alvin on Mar 21, 2001

Steve, I just did a seach and came up with the following site.  I believe that the present leader may have taken over in 1963 which I dated as the begining of the church.

Read the following:http://www.examiniglesianichristo.com

Regards
Alvin

[SteveG]

... in response to OOPS, I may be wrong on the date,, posted by Alvin on Mar 21, 2001

Alvin,
 I'll forgive your error, just this once!   LOL   Yeah, I went to several sites today and refreshed my memory of the Iglesia ni Cristo too.  1963 was a significant date, so I see how it stuck in your mind.     I couldn't remember the exact founding date either.   Anyway, the main thing is that they are bad news and to be avoided if possible.
                               SteveG