Da War

[Peter Lee]

Da War
What’s going on?
We helped and supported Suddam to be in  power to begin with
One President didn’t finish Suddam Insane when he had a chance in Kuwait.
He’s a Suni so that’s better than a Shiite fundamentalist who would get into power if
Suddam is gone.  
So the next President lets it go to keep him there as better of the evils
Next President the son no less gets his face slapped by 9-11
All the nuclear subs and aircraft carriers the high tech USAF and our Army couldn’t defend against $2 box cutters
Kind of like kicking the hornets nest, they want to sting some one any one
We fail in capturing Binladen and most of all the Alkida leadership escape capture.
Da didn’t they know when Suddam was in Kuwait he was dangerous?
Maybe all that oil burning when he retreated wasn’t enough clues?
We had his Army wiped out helpless, now we want to disarm him?
What is wrong with this picture?
This is a real botch job in foreign policy and now we got to pay for it.
Don’t seem to hear about Israel and the stone throwers lately did they run out of rocks to throw?  Maybe the Palestinians have made piece and we missed it LOL.  
Why do I feel I’m in a magic show where the hand is quicker than the eye?  You are led to watch one thing while the distraction of one hand lets the other hand do the magic trick.  [Just an observation if I don’t own anything I get free hospital care.]
Every time we filled the tank in the car we supported these guys
No talk about serious alternative energy yet and gas prices are going up a What’s a hydrogen generator?   What it emits pure water instead of pollution?
My sail boat has a wind generator and solar panels had to go to German manufactures for the solar panels?  I have 2 panels 20 years old that still give off power to charge my batteries.  
I get checked at the airport and my shoes get inspected.  Mexicans cross illegally by the hundreds no inspections.  Hey if they lie they are not life time barred either.
Why is it when I go overseas I get better news coverage and different points of view.
Are we learning anything from our mistakes in the past?
Yes I am retired disabled Vietnam vet and had to fight past foreign policy botch jobs by incompetent leadership.  But maybe they know something we don’t know eh?
My statements are viewed as politically incorrect and unpatriotic the price for saying the way it is.

[Ray]

... in response to Da War, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 26, 2003

Gee Peter,

Such a pessimistic attitude. You say you love your country but all I hear from you is complaints about how screwed up things are in the USA. Is there ANYTHING that you like about this country? Do you feel that this country has treated you unfairly? Are you happy here?

So, what exactly is your position on the looming war with Iraq?

Are you for it?
Are you against it?
Or are you still undecided?

If we do go to war with Iraq, will you support our president and our government at least until the war is over, or will you continue to trash your country before the world on the Internet? Just curious Peter...

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to So, what about the war?, posted by Ray on Feb 28, 2003

Lets hope they don't stop at the border again LOL.
I am tired of limited wars.   The job won't be done till there is total democracy there.  If they do that I'm with them 200%.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to So, what about the war?, posted by Ray on Feb 28, 2003

I must apologize, this is not the place for my comments, I regret getting off the subject, and everyone is doing such a great job in helping everyone here including helping me.   I must have had a brain fart.  
However to question Government policy usually gets a lot of heat and may label one unpatriotic.  Government changes and corrections come slow.  I have a lot to say and you are right I should not be doing it here.  It would be better if I answered these questions for those few who are interested. My e-mail address peterlee@695online.com to answer your questions yes of course I like this country.  No this country has not treated me unfairly.  Yes I am very happy here.  I am not happy for our kid’s future.  My views on Iraq will be available if you e-mail me.   I had pulled 2 tours in Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade I supported our President then under the highest dissention and I will support him now.  I am a recovered disabled veteran and had some bad experience in the past.  You are right about the media, what they report is usually not what is going on.    I will respect this site and not comment further unless e-mailed on this subject.  I hope I can report another trip with a wedding in June and the adventure with it.    
   

[Ray]

... in response to Re: So, what about the war?, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 2, 2003

Thank you for your response Peter.

I realize that a lot of people have strong views on the war with Iraq and I don’t think anybody is trying to keep you from expressing your opinions, which you have the same right to as everyone else. It’s just that you used the war as the subject of your post but never stated your position on whether or not we should go to war now.

Peter, I don’t know you other than from what you have stated about yourself here. From what I have read so far, I see a guy who came to this country as an immigrant, became a U.S. citizen, served in the U.S. military and retired with a 100% disability. I see someone who owns his own business, has a fairly large sailing boat with the latest technology, has the means to sail to Bermuda and travel overseas for extended periods of time, who must be in excellent health to be able to ride a bicycle all over Cebu City in the tropical heat, who has free government health care and prescription drug benefits, who collects a tax-free lifetime pension from the U.S. government, and who pays virtually no personal income taxes. I don’t know Peter, but you just seem to be the type of guy who would be thankful for the life he has here in America. Of course America is not perfect, but please don’t complain that Germany, Holland, or some other country has it right and we here in America have it wrong. When I hear Americans wishing out loud that our system were as good as that in some other country, I just can’t understand why they are still here and not living in those other countries that they admire so much.

Again, these are just my opinions and you have every right to your own also.

Peace,

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Re: So, what about the war?, posted by Ray on Mar 2, 2003

For the record, we should go in and finish what we started when we stopped at the border.  I hate limited wars, you either shxx or get off the pot.  I became a citizen in Nam and swore elegance to the constitution.  If I had to go again I would go but I’d be dammed if I'd stop at the border.  The job won’t be done till that place is a democracy.  Now that's worth fighting for.  
For the record, I was drafted in 63 and decided to stay.  When dodging the draft was popular I stayed.  When the possibility to die in combat was there I stayed.  I came home paralyzed for two years and was booed and heckled at the airport.  I opened my school partly paralyzed and trained myself back to health.  I was in constant pain for over 7 years.  My boat is only 27' foot long.  I didn't go to Bermuda, but to the Bahamas 70 miles from West Palm Beach.  I didn't pay income taxes coz I don't make a lot of money.  The reason I didn't make a lot of money is the property taxes I pay are over $12,000 dollars a year.  I decided to invest in real-estate instead of the stock market.  I was training with the constant threat of being sued, so everything had to be out of my name. The VA with the free health care said my injured hip was due to arthritis.  I had to get an MRI done at my own expense to prove them wrong.  I was diagnosed by an Egyptian Doctor and an Indian doctor?  My surgery will not be done in the Free VA, I have to pay $20,000 out of my own pocket and hope tri care will pick up some of it, so much for free government health care.  Prescription drug benefits are limited coz they don't always carry the up to date drugs I need for my problem.  I put up with 20 years of doing things most people would not want to do while earning poverty wages.  Because of my assignments in the military I have spent less time in America that any other place.  Now I get a pension,
I didn't have a Christmas or New Years at home for 10 years at a time.  My sister was a stranger when I met her again.  I am still thankful of life here in America, I gave my youth and best years so people could be free and enjoy Disneyland.
I chose to be silent for 20 years and just obey orders.  
Our war on drugs is not working proabition didn’t work.  Limited wars didn’t work.  But lessons will be repeated till learned.   Look back in history; people were making alcohol in bathtubs for extra money.   Pot is grown anyplace it can.  Once you take the money out of it all you have left is a few losers who will be on the drugs no matter what you do.  At least give these other countries credit for trying something else.  
Love it or leave it should be love it and fix it, don’t be a yes man cos it’s popular, fix the problem.  
Again, these are just my opinions and you have every right to your own also.
Peace,
Peter

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: So, what about the war?, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 15, 2003

Well Peter, thanks for the clarification.

With all the anti-war protests going on, I thought you might be one of those whining cry-baby neo-communists or something (LOL). I agree with you 100% that we should go in there and kick Sadam’s ass out of there. Either kill him or let France entertain him as their guest of honor so they can lick his hairy bottom on a daily basis.

I wish we would just tell France, Germany, and Russia to kiss our ass and start the damn war now before old Sadam pulls something we will all regret. The U.N will NEVER allow us to finish any war if they have their way because the U.N. is nothing more than a bunch of jealous crybabies without the balls to stand up to the likes of Sadam and the other tin-horn Hitler wannabes on this planet.

I don’t know what kind of military medical facilities you have in your area and what the access is, but here in San Diego I have Tricare Prime for retirees and don’t pay a scent for anything medical related except for the annual enrollment fee of $230 or $460 for the entire family. If you haven’t fully investigated Tricare Prime, do it now. Your wife will need good medical coverage when she’s here and you guys will probably be starting a family also. I’ve heard some real horror stories about the VA medical system!

Ray

[Surigao Ken]

... in response to Da War, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 26, 2003


I wish you luck on your search for a soul mate but your outlook on life as a American sucks.

Drop the bitter hate and move on.

Surigao Ken

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Peter Lee, posted by Surigao Ken on Feb 27, 2003

Ignorance is bliss LOL

Thanks for the good luck!

[Surigao Ken]

... in response to Da War, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 26, 2003

And your point?
You have none.

Take care loser,
surigao Ken

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Typical Liberal claptap, posted by Surigao Ken on Feb 26, 2003

The point!

Lessons are repeated till learned.

[Bear]

... in response to Da War, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 26, 2003

Your opinions are pretty simplistic and you didn't watch many news reports during the first Desert Storm War.  Bush did not take our Saddam because Turkey and Saudi Arabia insisted.

Bin Laden is dead.  He was seen on horseback where the USA blew up that mountain top with an experimental bomb in eastern Afgan 1 hr before than picture was shown on CNN.  If he is alive why haven't we seen him.  He was such a "movie star" before.  We don't say he's dead because the liberals would then say there is no need for war anymore.  Its a war against terrorism not Bin Laden.

Considering the wackos out there willing to die to end our "freedom" so that they can impose their "purity" of religion on us I am all for what ever it takes to stop any potential threat before it is used against us.  When 9-11 happened everyone was for us now that its past the liberals are saying we deserved it and it was our "come-up'ance" for supporting the Jews.  You do not want them to use these weapons against Israel.  I promise you shortly afterwards the world will end.

How come no one points out that most of the nuclear and biological materials have been sold to them by the French and Germans in exchange for oil?  

How come no one points out that the leader of France is one of Saddams best friends and "socialist compatriots"?  

How come most of the countries support this war but we onlu hear of the 2-3 that don't and see only the demonstrations against the was not for it?   We hear we are "rushing" and its all "American" aggression?  Sounds like Socialist propaganda to me.

How come no one said anything to Clinton when he did far more for less reason?  

Didn't we hear these same objections from the same peoples when we defeated the USSR in the 80's by installing Persian missles in Germany?

I wonder if Saudi Arabia wants us to get Iraqi oil back on the market if it means more competition for their oil?

I wonder if France and Germany want Iraqi's oil on the open market instead of sold to them behind the scenes for half the price?

I guess its better that we should let the terrorist attack us again like they have at least 6 times now.  Then the Socialist/Democrats can say Bush and the Republicans didn't do enuff.

Bear and Honey

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Da War, posted by Bear on Feb 26, 2003


Posted by Bear on 02/26/2003
In Reply to: Da War posted by Peter Lee on 02/26/2003:
You know I love this country; I was willing to die for it many times.   I was young and naive and believed what I was told.   Then I realized years later that I could have died for nothing.  I had left many comrades behind that I am not sure why they died.   I have witnessed my Government lie to me.  Now I am looking with my eyes more open and listen to both sides.  
Anyway if we all agree it would be a boring world.  

I will never see election reform so we can pick the best man for the job in my life time.
I will never see the great middle class that is the backbone of this country have catastrophic illness protection.   If you get sick enough you will loose all you have worked for all your life.  
I will never see the money taken out of the drugs so there is no more incentive to import it.  It is dangerous underground money that could be used to harm us later.   Holland and Germany have a system that seem to work; drugs have no money value there as a drug addict can get it for free, or get help.  But he will not be looked up on, he will have no gold necklace, and he will not be robbing you to night.
I will never see the borders be real borders, where immigrants are not just illegally bused in by the thousands.  
I hope you are not upset with my comments I love this country so.

Your opinions are pretty simplistic and you didn't watch many news reports during the first Desert Storm War.  
Ya I listened and couldn’t believe my ears and I am sure you too, when they stopped at the border.   Botched foreign policy
Bush did not take out Saddam because Turkey and Saudi Arabia insisted?
So since when should we listen to Turkey and Saudi Arabia?
But now more of the free world along with Turkey and Saudi Arabia insist we don’t go to war, if that is the case why don’t we listen again?  Nothing has changed he was dangerous then and now.  We do what we want when we want anyway so I wouldn’t want to be on your side defending another
Botched foreign policy.
Bin Laden is dead. He was seen on horseback where the USA blew up that mountain top with an experimental bomb in eastern Afgan 1 hr before than picture was shown on CNN. If he is alive why haven't we seen him. He was such a "movie star" before. We don't say he's dead because the liberals would then say there is no need for war anymore. Its a war against terrorism not Bin Laden.
Your tax dollars pay for spy satellites, space stations, CIA.  FBI, Army Navy and Air-force.   I bet if you owe the Government $1 they will find you and hound you till your dead or you pay
The richest most powerful country in the world should have been able to capture him alive.   At least see to it that his body was captured so we have closure.  We are not 100% sure he died.  If he is, he died a hero and martyr in their eyes.
If you go after the Nazis you got to get Hitler and his henchmen or we have failed.   We knew that then and we know it now.  It is not politically correct to say it but it is what people are saying to me.  .
Another botched job
Considering the wackos out there willing to die to end our "freedom" so that they can impose their "purity" of religion on us I am all for what ever it takes to stop any potential threat before it is used against us.
Ok, lets stop making box cutters! LOL [ you got to get their breeding ground] if you don’t find out why they are breeding like that they will just make more.  
Remember the Kamikaze pilots.   The General was asked, “How can you ask so many men to fly to their death?”   “Yes” the General said, “It was so hard to tell so many they could not go and die for their country”.
US and England have created the Kingdoms over there and failed to control them.  We had a chance to make them democratic years ago but it was easier to deal with a puppet leader we could control; now we pay the price.   Then we threw untold Billions of dollars over there buying there oil.  Botched foreign policy?
I got an idea lets stop at the border again!  LOL that will showem!
You feed these wackos everyday when you fuel up your gas guzzlers.
I bet your not willing to give up your glut to use their oil are you?
That would mean real sacrifice ride a bike get in shape.
I tried to imagine every house in Florida or any other State with Sunshine with solar panels on all the roofs.   The jobs it would create, the oil saved, the boost to the economy, the slap in the face to the camel-jockeys.  
If we had a good alternative energy incentive started which Carter started and stopped as soon as he was out of office.  Those guys with all that oil would be playing in the sand right now instead of being so rich they can purchase any high tech thing they want as soon as they get the chance.  
But you will not see any of that, even the few factories that were started here in Florida to make electric cars are a mystery on how they vanished with phone numbers disconnected.  
When 9-11 happened everyone was for us now that its past the liberals are saying we deserved it and it was our "come-up'ance" for supporting the Jews. You do not want them to use these weapons against Israel. I promise you shortly afterwards the world will end.
A super power can not choose sides, it must rule fairly.  When it does not it will pay the price.   It was not handled properly, people suffered on both sides and we allowed a breeding ground for hate so great that children were attacking tanks with rocks.  A Palestinian can look over to see the house he was born in and can never buy it back.   He can’t vote either in the land he was born in.  What a great breeding ground and guaranteed conflict.  
What would it take for an unlimited supply of young men to blow them selves up any time you ask them?   Ya, callem wackos, that will make them go away.  It is a complicated problem over there and needs complicated solutions.   Calling them “Wackos” adds to the problem. They are not going away we have to deal with it and fix it.   But only if we are neutral, which we will not so we sow what we reap.  
Did you notice you combined two problems into one like the media.  Two completely different groups made like they are one threat.  It is a trick you picked up from the media.  
Our first terrorist in the Bible was Samson.   He brought the temple down after asking God for strength one more time to kill himself and everyone else in the temple.   Not a good message, too them it was ok then and is ok now.  

I have heard only one side every time I turn on the TV.   Surly there must have been one time when the other side was unjust.  We are told we must choose sides.   In that context we have no choice, we have to side with our Government.
Another botched foreign policy
How come no one points out that most of the nuclear and biological materials have been sold to them by the French and Germans in exchange for oil?
See you agree!  Had we not stopped at the border all this would not be necessary.   We let him go after he burned up Kuwaiti oil fields and gave him time to accumulate more money to buy more stuff.   Money talks in all countries  and people in glass houses-----.  
We let all those high tech Russian scientists loose too.  
Another Botched foreign policy.
How come no one points out that the leader of France is one of Saddams best friends and "socialist compatriots"?
Da were we not Saddam’s best friend awhile back?

Demonstrators are really saying they don’t trust the Government.   They remember the lies.  They see smoke and mirror time again.  
Gulf of Tonkin and the useless war in Vietnam is still fresh in my memory.  
We should have learned the lesson, no limited war.   But something didn’t smell right about Saddam just going into Kuwait and thinking he could get away with it.   Was he given the green light to teach the Kuwaitis a lesson?
How come most of the countries support this war but we only hear of the 2-3 that don't and see only the demonstrations against the war not for it? We hear we are "rushing" and its all "American" aggression? Sounds like Socialist propaganda to me.
Ya and those countries have free health care for everyone.  If they have a catastrophic illness they don’t loose there life savings and house like here.  Its ok if you don’t own anything then it’s free.  If your rich you can afford the best health care programs or me I get it free with the VA or Tri care.   But the rest of the country has to bite the bullet.   Not allowed to ever mention that coz it is Socialist propaganda too right.  Smoke and mirrors again.
Bad foreign policy again, letting Saddam out Fox us all these years.   He was a bad penny.   We are letting him use the media against us.  
How come no one said anything to Clinton when he did far more for less reason?  
Clinton was a politician, he was the master [hey You asked].  
Didn't we hear these same objections from the same peoples when we defeated the USSR in the 80's by installing Persian missiles in Germany?
We didn’t defeat the Russians they went broke.    Our Capitalistic system made more money and that was good.  
But when money controls foreign policy we loose.
When money takes away my power to vote by buying media time with lies, we loose.  When money can get a murderer free we loose.
I wonder if Saudi Arabia wants us to get Iraqi oil back on the market if it means more competition for their oil?
I wonder if France and Germany want Iraqi's oil on the open market instead of sold to them behind the scenes for half the price?
See money controls other countries too!
I guess its better that we should let the terrorist attack us again like they have at least 6 times now. Then the Socialist/Democrats can say Bush and the Republicans didn't do enuff.
Ya this 2 party system is not working, they are both in bed with each other.  
They fixed it so they are the only game in town.  Neither has fixed our problems, and they didn’t get the job done, they didn’t protect us.  There is plenty of “F”s to go around.  We were lied to about the drug war too.  Drugs come in everyday by the tons.   It can’t with out lots of corruption and compliance.  Our borders are open for any Alkida to come over any time they want.  
I hope this finds you in good health and fired up.   I put my 20 years in and I served so that we have the freedom to say and write our mind.   If I am wrong I am sure you will correct me.  I am not a democrat or republican I am an American.  I honor your opinion and concern  

Peter

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[Bear]

... in response to Re: Re: Da War, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 27, 2003

1) If you like Germany's or Holland's drug laws move there.  Drugs lead to many things including a lower drive to (dis)improve oneself.  Drugs are nothing more than a method of hiding from fears and uncertanties as is all other instant gratification methods.

2) Even now Turkey insist on occupying northern Iraq to prevent the Kurds from forming a Kurdish State which would cause political proplems in Turkey from the 40% Kurdish population there.  Saudi Arabia has many factions in it.  The Government struggles to stay in power.  True they could do it better but its totaltarian and currently a benevolent friend of America so we do not ignore their wishes.  Had the USA took out Saddam the fragile instabilities of that region and the loss of allies might have thrown the world in to a true world war.  One thing no one had better forget is that Moslems can agree on one thing, "h@te Jews" and if someone uses that to unit them, the end will begin.

3) Bin Laden - why does he matter.  If we claim we killed him we give our enemies a martyr and our political opponents ammunition to stop our efforts.  If he was alive he'd be bragging on all the medias and uniting the fanatics.  Why capture this man alive and let him enlist more fanatics to kill more of our people while we prove him guilty in a court of law?  He admitted his guilt and he declared war.  He died.  I don't need to see a body because I know his techniques just like I don't need to see Noah's ark to believe in the Bible - the evidence is everywhere.  Another obvious evidence is the fact he needs a dialsys machine on a regular basis, not many of those around - we'd know if he was alive.

4) The politics of energy is well hidden.  Oil is money, money is power and power corrupts.  We can talk about strange and unfair things all day long in this area like why did the world choose to go with AC in stead of DC when it would have made more people independant and created more jobs?  Everything running off wind generators and batteries and today solar panels.  Maybe its the fact that power plants generate billions in profit daily and keep us controlled by the communital needs of electrical power plants.  But to blame any of this on one particular effort is out of some conspiracy therorists novel.  Not currently proveable and probably never will be.  There will always be those who like one over the other for what ever reason but it all comes down to individuals staying aware.  Thats not going to happen.  Too many people like the drugs in Holland (meaning they don't want to get involved).  Its not "botched" policy, its doing what seems to be the best at the time for those who are sqeaking the loudest.  When it comes to this sort of thing, oil & energy, look to where the dollar flows to know the real power.  And then look to their opponents to see those who are trying to steal the power.  Without cars, oil, gas, electricity as it is now America would not be what it is.  So bad mouth it and second guess it all you want but if it had not happened we would not be the most powerful and benevolent nation in the world.  I think this is by Gods design.

5) In America we discuss and talk and debate and the strongest wins out.  Not strong by only money or physical power but by who gets the message out, convinces and motivates the people to come out and support their cause.  If in the past mistakes were made it was because too many people liked drugs in Holland (meaning didn't want to get involved).  We are hearing lots of debate just like we did during the Viet Nam War.  This time people are taking a more Hawkish route.  The propaganda media has lost its edge because of the lies of those it supported.  The pendulum is swinging the other way.  If you want to blame Viet Nam on someone blame on those who would not let it come to an end.  War has ended Nazism, facism, communism and shortened the rule of many a tyrant.  Without it there would be no USA so don't blame war as inheriently evil - I see a tragic but necessary good come from it when it is allowed to come to a conclusion.  If the liberals had left Viet Nam and Korea to their natural course most conflicts in that part of the world would have ended and many peoples lives would have been saved, but because of liberal "whinning" people still die today.  There is no way you can appease a tyrant or a system that abuses its position by use of force - you must destroy it or eventually it will hurt you.  That is its goal and method of power - to make you fear.

6) No government is bad only the people who run them! And this is because the people who are ruled allowed it.  If this country lied (and I know many times it has) then it is and will be judged for it but to say we cannot act on a clear and perceived evil because someone might have not told  in the past or be telling the whole truth now is pure laziness.  Check it out your self.  And if it turns out that it really is lying then it is obvious that the powers that are in control are doing a better method of getting out their lies than the opponents.  I think from the evidence and the personal knowledge I have a extremists, I'll support the current administration instead of the whinning fools who put us in this situation anyhow.  Throughout history these things have happened and they always end when a strong offense is realized.  Being defensive just allows them to wear you down and find your weaknesses.  Offense destroys their ability to offend.

7) Unfortunately to do as you suggest and stay out of it would eventually make things worse.  Had Carter stood up to Iran they would see us as strong.  Had Clinton been firm in Korea there would be no nukes there.  Had the liberals not inhibited its own then thousands might have lived in Viet Nam.  I do not believe that the 2 party system doesn't work, I think it has been extremely successful or else we would not be the most powerful nation in the world.  Is there wrongs being committed on both sides?  Well duh!  But that just means "We the people" have to stay more involved or we'll get fooled and have to suffer the consequences.  I think this time its not going to be anymore playing around.  Once we were attacked on 9-11, it sent a message that we need to wake up and defend ourselves.

Bear and Honey

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Da War, posted by Bear on Feb 27, 2003

Dear Bear and Honey,
I have to say that I looked into some of the past posts and looked at your wedding pictures.  I only hope that one day I could be so lucky like the two of you.   You have what I have been looking for; hopefully I too have found the right partner in life.   93 days to go and a wake up.   I plan to marry in the PI in June.    I thank you for all the past and future help you have given me.  I apologize for not making myself clearer on my political views as we probably if sat down face to face would agree to most things.  But religion and politics create a lot of energy and it is good to disagree once in a while.  
I have found that when chatting with my fiancé on Yahoo for an hour, we can both sometimes get confused about simple things.  It seems that the chat and e mail have strong points.   But every now and then I have to get on the phone after a chat and talk with her about a subject to clear things up.   It is almost cleared up immediately in a few minutes of talking.   I wonder if the two of you experienced this phenomenon?  Some words have different meanings or imply different things.  Some of that is true in my answers to you below I do see your side of things clearly.  I am neither a Democrat or Republican I consider myself Independent and vote for the ones who I think will do the best job.  
1] If you like Germany's or Holland's drug laws move there.   The old love it or leave it scenario?  Give me a break!  Love it and fix it should be our motto.  Proabition didn’t work, neither is the war on drugs.  It should be a war against stupid programs that don’t work.
Are you living in the same country as I am?
Drugs are available anyplace you go including prison.  Prices are at an all time low which brings crime down, LOL.  As long as we keep the money in drugs there will be incentive to push it on the young naive and the innocent.    The war on drugs doesn’t work; the stuff comes in by the tons every day.  If it doesn’t work try something else for crying out load.  

2] Turkey?    Have you heard the news lately?  Currently a benevolent friend of America?   A world war over Iraq if we took out Saddam?  So are we better off now?   This limited war crap has to stop.  
If you check back into history Moslems didn’t always hate Jews.  Something happened in history that started this unfortunate hate.   Three guesses who got that started?
3]  If Bin Laden is not captured Bush knows he will not be reelected.  You sound like the spin zone full of excuses but no reasons.   You better believe they are trying as hard as they can to get this guy and down playing it in case they fail.   So if they find him alive Bear, does that mean you won’t believe in Noah’s ark or the Bible?  LOL.   Sounds like you’re a product of the media.  
4) The politics of energy we at least agree on that one fwhoow.  So should we say nothing?  Be silent?  Be a yes man?  
Did I mention conspiracy?   I don’t believe I did.  But if it looks like a duck?
We can bad mouth our energy policy coz we got to move on.   Make our technology work for us.  
Holland again, they did get involved, more than you’re allowed to know.   They have fewer problems with drugs than we have now.   Guess what?  It will happen here in time. Why coz it works!  Remember proabition?  Did it work?
Who are squeaking the loudest?  Should we be silent?
5) In America the one with the most money gets the message out.  Carbonated water with sugar and syrup has made millions.   They got the message out coca cola is lesson one.  If I tell someone how bad coke is they think I’m crazy, it is part of America.   I agree money is power.  A cause without money is labeled un-American.
Holland again?  Their past mistakes? Not trying something new.   They found a better solution than what we are doing.  They were very involved if you read the history behind their decisions.   Why can’t we build a better mouse trap
Now we are hearing a more hawkish route coz they are tired of limed war.
Vietnam was quick sand, we were to far away and lost the people war coz they fought for what they thought was theirs.  We would be better off opening up McDonalds and taking over that way than the way we tried.
The way it was, had we stayed there was no end, they had unlimited man power and few targets.  
And again we agree on the last part about War has ended Nazism, facism, communism and shortened the rule of many a tyrant.
There is no way you can appease a tyrant or a system that abuses its position by use of force - you must destroy it or eventually it will hurt you. That is its goal and method of power - to make you fear.  
Ya! So why did we stop at the border?  Where was your outrage when they pulled back?   I was not a yes man, I spoke up and it was unpopular, but I was right.