Let’s talk about something un-controversial.

[Jack]

I enjoy sharing ideas and knowledge as I think it helps many men as they go forward. Don’t know how many of you regulars know this but for all the guys who post, I think there are must be 7 or 8 guys who do not post. I hear from a lot of guys who comment about this or that they read on Planet-Love. Many times I ask what name do they post under and a lot of guys say they do not post, they just read. {although I do know several guys who have tried to post but cannot get Patrick to give them a password}

Ok guys, I bet when you all first started looking into Russian women you liked seeing that Russian women liked older men, preferred older men. Great! We men in general I think prefer women a little younger than us. Most American guys here think it’s great to find a younger American woman of 4, 5, 6 years younger than our age. I think it’s just nature, most men prefer younger women. Today I think I know of only two couples where the Russian woman is older than the man. It does happen but I think not so often.

So when we read of these beautiful Russian creatures who "prefer" older men to 10-15, even 20 years older than them, YIPPEE! We have discovered our own fountain of youth!!

Well guys, for the most part, that’s NOT true. Do you know what age men 19, 20, 21 year-old Russian girls are thinking of?......They are thinking of 20, 21, 22 year old Russian boys, NOT 40 year old American, foreign men! When you see a 20 year old girl who says she is looking for man to 40, or to 45, notice how they are always so beautiful! Guys get real! These 20 year old SINCERE Russian girls are NOT thinking of men twice their age!

Now I will say (and of course all this is my own opinions) that once women get to the age of about 28 to 35 they seem to willingly and sincerely accept a man 20 years there age. I think with maturity "some " Russian women will consider this 20 year age difference as well many feel they are getting older themselves and should consider a wider age range.

It's somewhat funny today to look back and see what the many different guys recommend as the best age difference. Guys who married a woman nine years younger than themselves say you should get a woman no more than ten years younger than the man. Guys who have married a Russian woman five years there junior recommend guys to seek ladies with-in five years their age. Guys who have married a woman 14, 15 years younger than themselves say this is as far as you should push it, to stay less than 15 years. Whatever a man's own age difference between him and his wife is this guys recommend age difference. I guess it's only natural, may not be correct, by natural.

In 1994, 95, 96, 97 things were still a bit desperate in Russia, Ukraine and the FSU. In these days there were a LOT of young girls and women who did not care about a man’s age, or his shape or his looks. In these days you would see a lot of young, stunning beauties with older, out of shape American men. Many of these couples met at the infamous large socials. Things were tough in these days. These women had discovered a new freedom, marry an American man, any man, and leave Russia, leave Ukraine, leave Belarus or Latvia. And many women were doing just that.

The large agencies were having a field day, they were in their prime. And to us western men, we did not know about these Russian women and so when we read that Russian women prefered older men, hot diggity dog, this is what we wanted to see! Wow, all these years behind the iron curtain and we did not know these lovely 20-25 year old girls really preferred older men.

HOGWASH! It’s hogwash, it’s BS, it’s marketing!!!!! It’s great marketing and almost all of us, including myself, fell for it.

Today it’s different guys. The more beautiful of Russian ladies (who 80% of you guys are writing the same ladies) are being more choosey, more selective. These ladies are now looking for younger men who are well off. It’s true. Today you men have more competition, there are more of you writing the same ladies. These ladies are getting so many letters that the typical young beauty after receiving her first 50 letters has found maybe three men she thinks she has interest in, these three men she will write. This young lady has received another 150 letters after her first 50 and guess what, she never even opened them!!!! You had best believe this, it’s real world, it’s happening. Many of these ladies are getting so many letters, so much interest, that most letters are not even opened. So timing is important guys, or separating yourself from the pack.

Now a little about marriages with many years between the man and woman. One of the reasons that Russian ladies will choose an older man is if she feels he has a good heart and is a good provider. I try to get all my clients to try to consider women no more than 15 years younger there own age. Most these women, especially today as compared to yesterday, would prefer a man 5 years older, and some to ten years older. I think many Russian ladies in the back of there mind think if the man is handsome, in good shape, a good provider, they will consider a man to 15 years older. But very few ladies are really thinking of men 20 years older. These are the exceptions, not the rule.

Now after saying that I have to admit I know of MANY happy, successful marriages where there are 19, 20, 21 years age difference. And guess what? These are happy, healthy, loving marriages. Do they exist? He11 yea they exist! I know of a few 25 year differences and two marriages of 29-30 years difference. I know, we shake our heads right? But I see the love and care in these two 30 year age difference, one of them with a new child. Our own KenC is living proof of a happy, healthy 25 year age difference. I think after four years of marriage I am still living a dream with my own 20 age year difference between Natalia and myself. Guys, we are the exception, not the rule! Yes, each of you can find a young bride 20 years your junior. I KNOW it is possible. But it takes two very special people to make such a marriage work. If this is what you want than I suggest you take your time and work hard and meet a lot of ladies. Although I think each of you will have more success if you concentrate on ladies less than 15 years younger than yourself.

Ten, twelve years age difference generally no problem, easy to do, easy to find. Fifthteen years age difference, were beginning to push the envelope. Seventeen, eighteen years age difference, there are MANY, MANY such happy marriages. But generally these relationships take two very understanding and compatible individuals. Do I recommend you seeking a lady 20 years younger than yourself, ...No. Do I recommend you seeking a woman 23, 25, 28 years younger than yourself, no. I cannot recommend it. But they do happen, it all depends on the two individuals and if you seek a much younger woman you had best be prepared to make a lot of changes in your own lifestyle.

[Frank O]

... in response to Let’s talk about something un-controvers..., posted by Jack on Jan 18, 2004

Just kidding. My wife is 16 year younger & her family had trouble believing I was 35. Oh well. Some guys have all the luck.;-)

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Do I count even though I look 10 years y..., posted by Frank O on Jan 21, 2004

No, but good luck anyhow!

[LP]

... in response to Re: Do I count even though I look 10 yea..., posted by Globetrotter on Jan 22, 2004

I said no text!

[John K]

... in response to Let’s talk about something un-controvers..., posted by Jack on Jan 18, 2004

As you have noted, there are some marriages with larger age differences that are successful.  My own marriage has 16+ years difference between us and we seem to be doing better year by year.  Still, I would think that would be a minority.

Would I look for someone that young again?  Not likely.  In fact, meeting my Marina was a simple mistake.  I was writing an introductory letter to an older Marina and it was delivered to the wrong girl.  The more years between you, the harder you have to work and the more patient you have to be, in order to achieve a successful marriage.

Still, there are girls looking for significantly older men.  Scammers come to mind, first of all.  They are likely the majority by far.  Other girls likely to look for a much older man are those who grew up without a father figure.  These ladies are going to want a husband with father-like tendancies.  Beware such relationships if you aren't much of a nurturing type.

There are also some ladies who's culture accepts older men as a matter of course.  Ex-FSU women aren't necessarily that culture.  If it's a big concern to have a much younger wife, then you seriously might want to look into a Filipino lady or a girl from Honduras.  Supposedly, larger age differences in marriage there are more common.

There are some women who trade years for stability, when looking for husbands.  Chances are better for those who have young children.  It isn't necessarily what they want, but it is what they will accept "for the children's sake".  Somehow, I don't see this likely to be a productive relationship.  Too much chance for low lieing resentment...

Last of all, there are a rare few ladies who seriously want a much older man.  The problem is that they are indeed a rare minority.  I wouldn't want to bet on a girl who wants a much older man.  I'd be more willing to bet she was a scammer.

If you are very healthy and look young for your age, have the financial stability to take care of a family, and are the nurturing sort, then you definately might have a chance.  If you are out of shape, look old and can't support a thriving household except with difficulty, then forget it.

Of course, that is strictly my personal 2¢.  Your mileage may vary...

[Albert]

... in response to It's going to depend on a few factors, posted by John K on Jan 19, 2004

Very well thought out John; thanks for the input.

[mudd]

... in response to Let’s talk about something un-controvers..., posted by Jack on Jan 18, 2004

in general, i would totaly agree, 15 years is the max, but i have seen men who were in their 40's who were better loking, in better shape and a lot more funny and down to earth than men in their 30, so i think if a girl had to choose between a younger man who was not as a "good catch" as the older man, she would choose the older man, but most girls would like to meet a man closer to their age, but their aren't too many men looking in their late 20's or early 30's. i have written to a few girls who had a 15 to 18 year age gap, but i just couldnt see myself getting serious with a girl who is 19 or 20 when im 36. thanks for the info jack.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Let’s talk about something un-controvers..., posted by Jack on Jan 18, 2004

[This message has been edited by Pordzhik]

Just took a decko at the first ten ladies to appear on firstdream.com, all of them very attractive beginging with Anna 19yrs who is prepared to accept men +16yrs.
Ekaterina 20yrs who'll settle for a 40 yr old.
Svetlana 20 prepared to go for 16 years difference.
Another Anna 20 this time +19 years.
Inna 22...+23.
Olesya 22...+18.
Luba 23...+15.
Elena 24...+21.
Lena 24...+22.
And last the lovely Vlada 24...+16

An average of +18 years and not a plain Jane amongst them.

"HOGWASH! It’s hogwash, it’s BS, it’s marketing!!!!! It’s great marketing and almost all of us, including myself, fell for it."

Jack I really don't know what to make of that statement, Surely you don't think your Firstdream ladies are being insincere?

Truth is these ladies know that very few US and Western European men under 30 years are even looking on the internet, either they are married or busy chasing the local skirt, and the local Ukrainian young men under 30 years don't have the finances to move out of mums flat, let alone provide for a wife. If these ladies want any kind of married life, they look abroad, they use the internet to look abroad, for the most part they find only men 35+ years.

I can't comment on what is the "best" age difference, just too many variables to consider.

Porgy +17 years

[Jack]

... in response to Umm....., posted by Pordzhik on Jan 18, 2004

Pordick I am well aware of our over 600 ladies we have less than 2% who are pushing my preferred and recommended age preferences. I am glad you took the time (wow, that must have taken some time!) to go thru our 600 plus ladies and come up with the same ladies I am aware of (except one you missed) who are pushing the limit.

I wish Inna would reconsider lowering her age limit, we have asked her. I wish Ekaterina would lower her age limit but all we can do is ask these ladies. We will not change what they have submitted to suit our own preferences.

You will not see any 20-24 years old on our site who are seeking men to 50 or over. Although we have had several such girls who have submitted request to be added. If a man wants a 22 year old girl seeking men to 50, or in the case of newly added Olga, # 0582 on A Pretty Woman, to age 55, he will not have any problems finding such girls on other sites.

I had to draw the line somewhere with the maximum number of years we would support both the ladies and the men. I know successful marriages of 20 years age difference are not so easy to find and keep. I had to find an age difference where I had to draw the line and I personnaly made this 23 years. I know there are successful marriages of 24, 25, 28 years age differences Pordick but as I said, they are very rare, they are the extreme exception. We will not hand deliver one letter, will not deliver flowers or gifts, will not translate one letter, do nothing to support any man who is seeking a lady of greater than 23 years. It upset's some clients but we had to draw a line somewhere although I think it's not best to even go beyond 20 years.

Just as there are some good ladies in Moscow who have traditional Russian women values, just as there is an honest agency in Lugansk, just as there are happy marriages with greater than 25 years age differences, there will be a few young ladies who will sincerely consider much older men.

I stand by my words Pordick, I recommend all my clients to stay within 15 years of there own age. Of course they don't all listen to me, many push this 15 years to 20.

It's HOGWASH Pordick to try to sell men the dream that most young Russian men prefer older men. I guess we will have to live with our 2% of ladies we feel are sincere who have expressed a williness to accept an older man.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Umm............, posted by Jack on Jan 19, 2004

If we all haven't figured it out yet after a long time writing, traveling, looking, longing for, etc.....what we are really doing is "buying a wife."

Like it or not, even those who are married and claim their relationship is wonderful and the love grows by the day, have purchased their wives.  So....it depends on which one you married, and what her attitude toward a relationship really is.    

That's OK, and it has been done for centuries, but it is not something we are used to.  We tend to fall in love first
and hope all things will work out.  The girls, on the other hand, marry for scale of economics, and some hope the love follows someday, and some don't care as they are here and that is all they wanted in the first place.

We see examples of both every day right here.  Travis is one example that fits into the Shane Neff column.  I know the lawyer here whose story was the same....abuse was claimed after 3 weeks of marriage, and she tried to get him thrown out of his house.  It would have happened, but he was living in his parents house (while his new house was being built)and SHE ended up in the homeless shelter.  Guess she should have waited a few months.  She's now remarried (after having dated over 100 men found on the Internet) and his divorce cost him over $40,000.

Like it or not, we are buying wives.  Some will be very lucky and all the agency hype will have turned out to be true.  Others will have the outcome as above.  What are the statistics?  Nobody knows or keeps those records, but the INS/BCIS claims lots of abuse.  

In my case, I think we both loved each other, with a twist.
I found she was still shopping, having found professional shots on 2 other sites, then her daughter as well!  I thought, "What the Hell is this, a tag team.?"  Still, I looked the other way, and thought it could still work.  Then when I told her of my finances and she now knew the assets were there, she tried to negotiate a "better deal" for herself, and I added everything up and said screw it, and pulled the plug.

So, know it is a dangerous game and know the risks and rewards going in.  If you are old and fat, and not very exciting, and can't provide what the Jones's have next door, and marry above what you could expect to get here, know or expect your due date is somewhere near.  She will  more than likely continue to "shop" with or without you knowing.  

In my case, I have lost trust in my squeeze of 3 years, and that relationship is history.  I would do exactly the same if it happened again.  On the bright side, I will look again in the East.  

Jack emailed me that he would help me for free...and we have never met.  Thanks again Jack, and everyone should know what you can, and often do for others you have never met.  You're OK.  

The difference is, I know I will be buying a wife...in the beginning.  I will hope the love will grow till my last breath.  If it doesn't, financially, I'm covered, and I will have lost time, and emotional capital, which is enough pain to endure.  If I choose well, and our love does grow like I hope it would, her "Russianness" and charm, and culture are things to applaud, and for others to be jealous of.  The difference between me and many, many of you is that I look for someone age appropriate to me...no more than 10 years younger, the same as I would look for here.  My ex-squeeze at 46, is better looking than most 30 year olds, and men 10 years younger or 20 years older would have found her stunning, with a personality to match.  Children are welcome, and would be loved and cared for as if they were my own.  Also, I am willing to do the work of mentor, teacher, father, counselor, priest, entertainer, and can afford the game.  

Again, know the risks going in.  If you choose a beauty queen 20 years younger than yourself, you had better keep going (or start going) to church every Sunday, or you are an ostrich with your head in the sand and are pissing up a rope, with your feet held to the fire each and every day.  My suggestion for all would be to look for someone "age appropriate" and at least then, you only need to worry about all the rest of the "uphill battles" that we all face, or will in the future.

My 2 cents. However, each to their own, and best of luck.

Hey LP, don't leave.  You provide a very good service here for men in general, and, I think for the first time, even applauded by Patrick.  Besides, I think you like the atmosphere here.  You stir up the pot, piss on the campfire, are loved and hated at the same time.  Shoot, it don't get no better than that.  You can boast of your past, present, project into the future what lots of hard work and lifes experiences can bring to the party if you're smart, and diligent.  Like Einstein, a great scientist first, but also a philosopher as well....or Will Rogers, a comedian, but someone that presidents took advice from.  And, I thank you for your "handshake friendship via cyberspace" and support.  Oh, I hope you didn't bet on my gig, or as you see, you would have lost.  But, you were half right, as I am back in the game, smarter than before.  Thanks Pal.            

[LP]

... in response to Realism and The Way of the World..........., posted by Globetrotter on Jan 20, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]

..deleted, served it's purpose.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Shucks...., posted by LP on Jan 22, 2004

Thanks............Yes, I'm surprised you were the only one who responded to my post.  I think to be successful in this venture, you must be resonably well adjusted, and basically a happy person, and have the $ to play.  Then you must realize that a good wife only "enhances" the happiness you already possess, and doesn't "bring it to you for the first time."  

The "efficacious word" is a funny thing....in that if you tell youself a lie or dilusion long enough, it becomes the truth, and you start to believe it.  Woe be those who do this and not analyze the situation before they pull the trigger, not looking at things the way they really are instead of the way you would wish them to be.  I guess my above post insulted those who have married beauty queens, plus being a generation past their wives.  Just think when their wives are 40 and at their sexual peak, the guys will be in their 70's.  Now that's an interesting dilemma....I wonder what will happen then?  But they probably won't want to be pushing the wheelchair or shopping for Depends!  Gee, sorry to blow the whistle on the "dream" squeeze, but reality is reality, and human nature is just that.

I was very much in love with my squeeze (5 years younger) after a 3 year courtship.  ( You're right...too good for a Moe like me.)  But after you blow the cover and show what you have, and think, just maybe she's thinking what's a few hundred grand to this guy?...you (I) really have to rethink the process and what you're getting into.  I had no problem with the task ahead, but it came down to trust, and how much you're willing to wager.  The possible cash loss if things went really bad was not a great worry as I have enough to withstand most assaults.  The loss of trust and emotional capital would have been much, much more devestating after putting much faith and trust and work into a relationship which has so many pitfalls to begin with.  Thus my decision.  To become "detached" from a situation like mine was a difficult thing to do.  I still have haunting "what ifs and if onlys" but know I did the right thing for me.

So sorry to see you depart, as you really do perform a service for men in general far beyond the MOB process.  Lest the grand wizard behind the curtain pull the delete handle again, I'll keep the kudos to a minimum and will do this privately at a later time....but I'm glad you had the chance to read it.  And....thanks for everything!

[Jack]

... in response to Re: Shucks...., posted by Globetrotter on Jan 22, 2004

heck, no sense in me replying, I already blew your 10 year age difference and marriage to beauty queen.

[LP]

... in response to Re: Re: Shucks...., posted by Jack on Jan 22, 2004


...he's only saying similar to what you said in a post above. And I remind you beauty is in the eye of the beholder and one of the shallowest qualities to place in a mate. (Now weight, thats a different story.

Besides, didn't your mother teach you never to bite the hand that feeds you?

Btw, if it were me I wouldn't have come back no matter how much they clamored for it. Screw 'em, I come first. Let's hope our puzzy whipped buddy feels the same...

[Jack]

... in response to Be nice Jack...., posted by LP on Jan 22, 2004

LP, globe is all right, has his head on straight. A lot of guys have their head on straight. And referring to those guys who have their head on straight your going to find those who limit their search to ladies within 5 years his age, others within 10 years and those within 15 years. Few guys who have it together are going to actively seek a lady 20 years his junior.

Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. When it comes to seeking a beautiful woman I will admit to being shallow. And I have seen some guys who have taken home some homely looking Russian ladies, with one guy I swear his wife looks like a hooker, but in their eyes these are beautiful women.

You know it is too bad mit doesn't read any of your post's, some of what you say might sink in.