Do Onions make you cry???

[Lynn]

... in response to Errr..., posted by Ken W on Dec 20, 2002

Where did you come up with that? The question of where and how I am wrong about the courts being held under "martial" law and mention of maritime/commercial law was the post line that led to this.

[Robert D]

... in response to Exactly........., posted by Lynn on Dec 20, 2002

Well, let's see.   From the writings of the people who claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, well what did they say was the reason?  The first reason was because we disgraced their holy land by our presence on Saudi soil, (they really want us out of that entire part of north west africa)  So because we "insulted them" they killed people on the USS Cole,our us offical offices in several countries, and later since we did not get the message, killed $3,000 people in New York.  Yes you must be right.  It was all our fault.   To think we would insult someone so badly that they feel the need to kill close to 4,000 of us.  Certainly since we did nothing after each attack until the very last one.   Perhaps we should apologize to them, hug them and they will be our friend.  I think not. The only thing we can do for those people is to die, and frankly I am not going to do that for them.
    Later, Bin Laudin, revised his list of causes for the attack and added our support for the Jewish state.   This came more than a month after the attack.  Two questions come to mind.  If they are insulted that we are in Saudi Arabia, then why not attack the govenment of Saudi Arabia that invited us, and insists that we stay?   Or attack us in Saudi Arabia.   If they disagree with our policy in the Middle east, why attack New York?  If it is jews they hate then they could jost go and help those radicals in Palastine, who seem to have no shortage of people who desire to be sent on to paradise.  
   Later Bin Laudin, three months later said the attack was to prevent us from achieving our goal of world domination.   Hummmmmm that is a good one.  Let us see, we sent our young men and women in harms way in the former Yugoslavia, to keep Muslims from being killed by the thousands, and prevent another holocost, and this is the thanks we get.  WE also supported them in their fight against the Soviets, which they could not have won without us and withing 5 years we are infidels.
   In short they hate us not because of our policies, but becasue we are non believers just that simple.    
   One last point.   I was once in Grad school, and did a masters program before I went to law school.   That was about the time of the kicking out of the Shaw of Iran, and we had about 6 Iraniang students on a full ride to study here.  The american students, myself included, really liked the iranian students.  Many had language problems and we took it on ourselves to help them with class work when translation was a problem.   We often ate together, visited each others homes or apartments etc.  In short we became very good friends.   The the Shaw was taken out of power.  These same people resigned from school and insisted on returning to assist in the "Revolution"   As far as we were concerned, good, as it seems the Shaw was not that great a fellow and we knew nothing of this radical old fellow that took over for him.   We offered to help them move. "No thank you"   WE asked if we could do anything for them  "no"  Over the next few says before they all left they stopped speaking to us, were very rude etc.   Finally, I just asked the one I was closest to "say man what's up with the attitude?"  He said you Americans can not understand because you are non believers and are unclean.  To which I responded, you are welcome to you religion and that does not bother me a bit, but unclean?  Hmmmm.  In short we were non believers in a world in his mind that should only contain believers.  The rest were worthless.  That sir is what we are in the eye of those radicals who attack us.  And no matter what we do, that will never change, and they will hate us and want us dead.  
   So I know what Bin Laudin said, I know what he says he believes, as we have heard it from his own mouth, and frankly I can not think of anything we Americans could ever do to deserve 3,000 dead in New York.   Nothing.
Just seems like a large price to pay for an insult!!!!!  Talk about mob mentality, is that mob mentality perhaps?  3,000 dead because of an insult?
Sorry about the bad typing job, but the blinds in my office just fell and the sun is on directly into my monitor.  So I can see very little of it.
Robert D.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Re:  Martial Law, posted by Robert D on Dec 20, 2002

Famous 20 year plus Mayor, Richard J. Daley of Chicago would say to those who disagreed with his plans, "Well, I have just told you what I want to do, how I want to do it, and why.  Since you disagree, you must have a better plan.  Please tell us what you would do."  So...if you disagree with an idea of someone's, just have a better plan...or keep quiet!

[Lynn]

... in response to Re: Re:  Martial Law, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 20, 2002

of Patriotism is: Don't ask questions, just do as you are told.

[Robert D]

... in response to Today's official definition............, posted by Lynn on Dec 20, 2002

Nope you missed his point.  He meant Ask questions all you want, but if you disagree, please offer an alternative so that we can do a better job for you.   It is easy just to disagree

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Re: Today's official definition............, posted by Robert D on Dec 20, 2002

Exactly, exactly right!!!

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Today's official definition............, posted by Lynn on Dec 20, 2002

I assume that you participate on the local level, which is a good place to begin.  I do, and have dressed down the mayor of my town in  public forums, which was recorded and played on TV for a week.  You may also try to convince your congressman that corporate "donations" soft money or otherwise....gee, didn't they used to be called "bribes?"

But, since you seem concerned, I assume that you make your voice heard.  Just think if you could convince 10,000 others to do the same thing, and they convinced others.
Participation, participation!!!

[Lynn]

... in response to Then, I assume that you participate?, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 20, 2002

I do participate in local and state levels working with PACs. Recently I took time off during the week to dirve to DC and participate in a rally demanding the government to answer redress of greivances -- which is garanteed in the Constitution and to obey the Constitution in regards to Bush usurping the power from Congress regarding the War Powers Act and other issues. Signed petitions were hand delivered to "all" members of the Congress and the Senate, then 4 days later to Bush.
I don't play arm-chair quarterback.

[Robert D]

... in response to Re: Re:  Martial Law, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 20, 2002

Thanks

[BURKE89]

... in response to Re:  Martial Law, posted by Robert D on Dec 20, 2002

" Government is not reason;
it is not eloquence;
it is force! Like fire,
it is a dangerous servant
and a fearful master!"

       George Washington

[Robert D]

... in response to Re: Re:  Martial Law, posted by BURKE89 on Dec 20, 2002

And the solution to our current crisis is?

[BURKE89]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Martial Law, posted by Robert D on Dec 20, 2002

Robert,

I believe, that is a question this forum isn't capable of handling, nor appropriate for. However, I'm rather handy, of putting forth a couple for you:

1.) Why do we have 155,000 illegal immigrants, from the region in question (middle east)?

2.) Why does the bureaucracy, superfluous of party afilliations, continue along this path?

3.) Why does our nation not base our immigration policy on skilled individuals (which, by the way, wouldn't effect many lads in this quest)?

4.) Why are we investing billions of $'s on border checkpoints, in Afganistan, while our on borders lay prostate?

If you would like to answer those queries, than grand!  If not, here's my simple solution:

CONTROL ONE'S BORDERS, and shunt a bureaucracy gone wild.

Well, why you ask: because Russian Guy's & Gal's wonder why not!

For freedom,

Vaughn

[Robert D]

... in response to Why, did I know you would say that..., posted by BURKE89 on Dec 20, 2002

You make a good point.   I think it is funny that even liberal Democrats, like Diane Fienstein, from of all places Northern California, now realize that our steep population growth has staggered some state economies and threatens much of our future if nothing more, than because it helps to support even greater grown and more strain on our resources both environmental and monotary.  
If we were really worst than the the former Communist state, we would not have as many illegals living here, and would not allow as many people come to this country every year.

But you are right, this is not the board for this topic.  Too bad, because I was enjoying the banter.  Discussion like this hurt no one, and indeed help an good exchange of ideas within and atmosphere of respect.   I wish all of us were more interested in our country and talked on these issues rationally more often, regardless of the anyone views. (yet another reason we are not like the former communist state)

Robert D.

[BURKE89]

... in response to Re: Why, did I know you would say that....., posted by Robert D on Dec 20, 2002

that, for anyone with a moral compass, to compare our Republic with the flotsam of history (as you ably stated), deserves to be intellectually discredited.

On immigration:

It is indeed interesting, to see the likes of Diane Fienstein discussing the demerits of this flood... & its decimation upon of our social services, at least in California. Perhaps, the majority of the country has not experienced this joy, as of yet. They too, will relish the largest demographic population shift in recorded history.

The conundrum is: the left wants votes & the right wants cheap labor. It really is as simple as that. Then, throw the the noxious concept of blanket-equality into the mix, and what do you get? Its an age-old issue that the majority of Americans want solved. Will it be solved? No! Why, you say, if 70%+ of Americans view it as an issue, superfluous of 9/11? Look above, my friend!

Hmm... might I suggest:

Vdare.com ( the links rock)

 or...

http://amconmag.com/11_18/cover4.html  

The joy of Lewiston Maine, and their residents will not concern us, will it? (Carleton Coon, might have a different opinion on that one. LOL...)

Merry Christmas,

Vaughn

[Robert D]

... in response to Well said! I might add..., posted by BURKE89 on Dec 22, 2002

You are dead on.   It is strange that when I was a kid, zero population growth was the thing we were working to accomplish.   And we did it, then came the 1million illegals into the country, and that was the end of that.  This may be the undoing of the country in the long run, but perhaps not if our economy continues to grow, but if not, well it will certainly lead to difficult times, and the backlash is going to be very difficult for some to stomach.

Robert d.