Part of me thinks that this is a waste of time… but since I promised someone I’d post this information when I was finished with the whole process… here goes:

My thoughts on the “other side” of the search – or: “What happens once I’ve found her?”

First, the INS:

Bad news for all doing this. The INS is slower now than ever. This is anecdotal, (and no doubt will be disputed, since it seems every thing I say is) but I’ve been tracking INS times on the various websites, and by keeping in touch with people who are going through this, and it appears that there is a noticeable slow-down now. Whether that is due to the after-math of 9/11, or talk of the INS being dissolved, or whatever, the fact is that it appears that the INS is about 20-30 days slower across the board.

I mention this only because anyone waiting right now shouldn’t panic if it seems to be taking longer than they expected. Also, the fiancée’s expectations should be set. Back in June, I told Victoria it would be six months, and she gasped in shock. I explained why, and she hated the thought, but she understood. Secretly, I was hoping it would be closer to four. But, guess what? It was almost 6 months to the day. (That includes the month or so it took us to get our paperwork together…)

Secondly, forget the myths… believe the INS. There is a lot of misinformation flying around about what you should submit to the INS, and how it can help you trim as much as two months off of your wait. I have been studying this for eight months now, and I believe that the best approach is to just do what the INS says. Forget the FSU Urban legend... it takes as long as it takes, and there's really nothing you can do about it...

(There is only one thing I know to do to trim off waiting time, but I think that's better left unsaid at this point...)

As far as paperwork, I think it is far better to send the minimum required. Two reasons I believe this: one, the less paperwork you give a bureaucrat the better off you are, and two, if you take an extra three weeks gathering up information you don’t need, then you have extended your waiting period by three weeks.

Here is, as simply as I understand it, what happens:

First, the INS gets the application request. This is your request saying that you have a foreign fiancé, and you wish to marry, and you request a K-1 Visa. If you go to the INS home page, and read the instructions for the I-129F (http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-129f.htm), you will see that, technically, all you need to do is send the application request with NO INFORMATION at all! Of course, they also state that they can request ANYTHING they need, and so they RECOMMEND that you send (in addition to the form):

1. Proof of US citizenship (from the petitioner)

2. Letter of Intent to Marry within 90 days from both parties.

3. Evidence that you met physically. (photos together, plane tickets, lease on apartment or hotel receipts)

4. Copies of Birth Certificates (of all involved, including children) and divorce decrees (if applicable). All foreign forms must also be translated, and the translation notarized.

5. One ADIT photo of all involved

6. the G-325A Biographical form.

They do NOT ask for: Medical records, police reports, the oft debated Affidavit of Support, blood samples, or promises to sacrifice the first male-born child... or much of what I heard they wanted.

The reason is that the INS does NOT issue the Visa. That is issued by the Embassy Consular office in the country that services your fiancé’s homeland. (In case of Ukraine, that is Warsaw, Poland.)

So, frankly, the INS doesn’t CARE about those other things. What they want to know is that both parties are real (birth certificates), reasonably solvent (biographical information),  able to get married (divorce decrees) ,  have met (pictures, etc) and intend to get married (letters of intent). The ADIT photos are for identification purposes (they are attached to the file that goes to the embassy).

Once they have verified these things, they approve your request and send your information to the embassy (in my case Warsaw.) This goes by their courier (or so the INS official I talked to told me) so there is NOTHING you can do to speed up the transit. I offered to give a Fed-Ex number, or a credit card – everything short of an out and out bribe, and I was told to just be patient. It would take a long as it took.

While the INS file is in transit, SOME EMBASSIES, will open a provisional file. (Warsaw does.) Again, you do not need medical reports, police reports, or anything to get the provisional file opened. All you need to do is fax your request to Warsaw. In your request, you need to give them your Fiancée’s name, city and country, and the INS approval number. You also need to fax them a copy of the INS approval form. That’s it. That’s ALL you need to get a provisional file opened. (In Warsaw.)

If you read the Warsaw Embassy page (and I HIGHLY recommend it: http://www.usinfo.pl/consular/iv/fiance.htm) then you will know exactly what happens from this point on, and exactly what you need to do. The Warsaw page even explains the INS part of the process, in about as clear and straightforward a way I have ever read.

The Embassy also tells you that opening the provisional file is a privilege, and not a right. They do it as a courtesy to you (speeding things up by about 21 days…) What they request of you is that you do not overly burden their office with requests for information.  

PLEASE, as a courtesy to everyone in the process, respect their request. Not all embassies will do the provisional file, and if a bunch of insecure jerks overly burden the Embassy, then they will stop doing it as well.

Specifically, they ask two things: 1) contact them through email or fax (email is preferred). 2) do not make more than one contact with them per week. If you read between the lines, you also can see that they sort of request that you don’t get your congressman involved. They state that (although it is your right) it will not speed things up. However, if you DO have a congressman calling them (or if you have an attorney calling on your behalf) then they ask YOU not to contact them. One channel of contact per applicant, please…

These are all reasonable requests. Believe me, once you have seen the sheer volume of requests that they handle in a day, you can understand why they ask you to respect their situation and do not over-burden them needlessly.

For the record, I never called the Embassy. I faxed them the request for a provisional file, and I contacted them twice via email about some questions which arose. Each time I heard back from them in about four days. So, if I emailed on Monday, I would have my answer the same week. I'm as impatient as they come... but, really, that's soon enough.

Once the provisional file is opened, the Embassy mails to your Fiancé it’s “Information Packet 3.” This contains some explanatory information for her, as well as telling her the things that she must get before her interview.  Here is where she will need to get the medical records, police reports, etc. It is all very well explained in the packet.

If you want to get a jump on things, the information packet is available in download form on the embassy website. Just be careful: You are wanting FIANCE information… not IMMIGRANT information. There is a difference. (And this is where some of the confusion arises…)

Once the Embassy has opened a provisional file, you are waiting for three things: two of which are entirely out of your hands. You are waiting for: 1) the INS information to arrive at the Embassy, 2) an FBI background check on your fiancé, and 3) your fiancé to gather up the information requested in Information Packet #3.

The ONLY thing that you have control over is #3. Once your fiancé has the things gathered, she can fax form OF169 to the Embassy. This form is essentially a checklist that tells the Embassy that she has everything they requested.

Now you have done everything you can, and you must simply wait for #1 and #2 to be completed by the Embassy.  I will say it again: THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO SPEED THINGS UP AT THIS POINT. Relax. It takes as long as it takes. (And, by the way, if your fiancé is from Kiev, it will take less time to do the background check than if she is from some small village on the eastern border somewhere, because it takes more effort to do the check.)

Once a month, the Embassy will post interview dates. (http://www.usinfo.pl/consular/appoint/docs/fiance.htm ) If you don’t make it, you will have to wait until the first of the NEXT month to know if you made the cut. If you check out the Embassy webpage of interview dates, you will see that, pretty much, the case numbers go in sequence. So, if you see a lot of case numbers that start the same as yours being processed in one month, then you can be reasonably sure yours is coming up.

In my case, I got “lucky”. I actually misspelled Victoria’s last name on the INS form. (Dropped a ‘y’ in it when I typed the form.) I didn’t discover this until AFTER we had a provisional file opened, and an FBI check underway. I wrote the Embassy to ask them if this would be a problem. They emailed me back that not only was it not a problem, but that we had our interview date set… and told me what it was. So, I knew our interview date prior to the monthly postings.

This was really fortunate, because our date was December 10th, and if I didn’t know it until December 2nd, it would have made getting plane tickets a challenge.

The Embassy DOES send out notification to your fiancé, also, so Victoria got a letter a couple of days after I got the email. She also got what is known as Information Packet #4 which is a final checklist of what she needs. Again, this packet is available from the Embassy Web Page.

So… about Warsaw now…

First of all, you do not need a Visa for Warsaw. Neither does your fiancé. HOWEVER, she DOES need money. She needs to have a minimum of $50 PER DAY to be allowed to enter Warsaw. They want to make sure that she is able to support herself – even if she is meeting you there. Since we were planning on 5 days, I had to Western Union Victoria $250. It was no big deal, since I was planning on taking more than that much anyway, but just be aware of it. (And don’t think she’s trying some scam on you… she REALLY needs it.)

Also, I don’t know how much of this was needed, but Victoria also had her portable CD player and CDs checked and sealed by Ukraine Customs Department before she left for the trip. This was so there would be no doubts (and no confiscation) of her valuables. She was told that the only jewelry she was allowed to take was what she wore out. She made creative hair pins out of her favorite ear-rings, and wore her hair pinned up. (I told her she would make a fine spy…)

The train from Kiev arrives in Warsaw at 6:15am. This is a problem…

Because I did not arrive until about noon, and Victoria would need help at the train station, I needed to make arrangements to have her met. (By the way, this would be the first time that she ever traveled to a country where she did not speak the language. And, although you would THINK that most of Poland would speak Russian, Victoria found – to her surprise – that her ENGLISH helped her more in Warsaw than her Russian.

I decided to rent an apartment from a service, instead of trying to find the best deal, because I needed a “support team” in Warsaw.  I rented a 2 bedroom apartment from “Old Town Apartments” in Warsaw.(www.warsawshotels.com). What was good about it was that they had a “rent for 5 days and get 2 free) deal. This worked out to be advantageous. Since Victoria got in at 6:00am on Saturday, and check-in is 12:00 noon, I actually had to start the rental on Friday – but it didn’t cost us any more, since we were only staying five days. (If you followed that...)

Why five days? Well, our meeting was on Tuesday, but I saw no reason to let the weekend go by with her in Ukraine and me in USA. The way it priced out it was almost as economical to spend five days together as it was to spend three.

The Air France flight we were on leaving Warsaw took off at at 7:15am. The Warsaw Embassy issues Visas after 3:30 pm. AND, I read (on here) that sometimes the visa was issued the next day. (When I asked the embassy official about this, he seemed offended and told me that Visas were ALWAYS issued the same day. FWIW.) But, not knowing which day I would get the Visa, I allowed for three days in total:  one for the interview… one (perhaps) to get the Visa… and leave early on the third day (Because Air France has no afternoon flights, it is impossible to leave the day of getting the Visa.)

It’s about a 10 PLN (or $3.25 US) cab ride from Old Town to the Embassy. Our taxi driver conveniently got lost, and so the first time over was a little more. On the way back from the Embassy, we had a cab driver with a clear desire for a dramatic death, and we made it for under $8.00. Of the two, I preferred the cabbie who decided to take us on a tour of Warsaw.

The "Getting the Visa" process is essentially a five line wait.

First, you wait to go through security. (line 1) The Embassy opens at 8:00am. We got there at about 8:15. We had to stand in a line for about twenty minutes. The challenge was, the line was outside, and it was about 10 degrees F (or around -22 C) and it felt EVERY bit of it. Especially to someone who was NOT used to cold weather!

Finally we got inside.  You take off your coat and pass though a metal detector. They were confiscating all cell phones and cameras. I had one of each, but this turned out to be a VERY good thing. When I spoke to the guard, (to hand over the items) he realized I was an American.

After you clear security, you go through a door -– back outside --  into a small courtyard, and wait in another line (line 2) – just as cold as the first line (but at least they warmed you up briefly in the security building.)

The courtyard has three separate lines. A “Blue” line, a “Yellow” line, and a “Red” line. (Colors are marked in a stripe on the pavement. Everyone was in the red line. At first, this line looks no worse than the line in front of the building… but looks are deceiving. THIS line ONLY goes forward when someone LEAVES the consular office. The average wait time in this line seemed to be about an hour.

I say “seemed” because we did not wait in it. We started to, but the guard came outside after us and told me to go stand in the yellow line. It was a “line” of two: Victoria and me. As soon as we stepped to the front of the yellow line, and voice announced: “Yellow line, please enter” and our wait in the cold was over.

As near as I can tell, I was sent to the yellow line because I had an American Passport, and the guard knew I was an American.

I mention this in case anyone is deciding to have their fiancé go to Warsaw alone. If I had done that, Victoria would have had an hour’s wait in sub zero weather. If you want to do that to your fiancé, go right ahead. Me… I was glad I was there.

We were told to go straight to window 9. I thought this was a good sign, but it turns out that they simply took your name (and the letter that was sent to you confirming your interview date) and told you to take a seat.

The room had about 100 people in it, and seats for maybe 75. So, taking a seat was a matter of waiting and watching.

They called us about 90 minutes later. (Called Victoria’s name in Polish, and also informed us to go to window number 8 – in Polish.)

The woman there spoke rapidly to Victoria in Russian, and collected all of her paper work. The only time she spoke with me was to ask me if I brought proof of fiancial support.

The Warsaw Embassy web page says specifically that you do not NEED an affidavit of support. All you need is proof of income. They say that you CAN produce one if you want to. If you choose to do it, do NOT use the I-864, which is only used for immigration purposes.  What you want is a notarized I-134, obtainable at the INS web site.

I had a notarized letter of employment from my employer, a copy of my last two years W-2s and, while I was at it, I also went ahead and filled out the affidavit of support. To do this, I simply downloaded it from the INS web page, filled it out, and took it (with the letter from my employer and my tax forms) to my bank, and had it notarized.

The I-134 says, in effect, that you are willing to support your fiance, and that – if necessary, you are willing to sign a bond to that effect – but does not require a bond.

I handed over my support documents, and we were given a red slip of paper, and told to go pay.

We thought that it was over, but it was not.

Windows 8,9 and 10 are only to verify your paperwork. You STILL have not yet seen the Consular. (They are in Windows 2-7).

So, next we stood in line #3 at the cashier window for about 30 minutes, and I paid for two Visas. It was $200. Cash, US dollars (as nice and crisp as you can find). $100 for Victoria, and $100 for her son. (By the way, the Warsaw Embassy web page was incorrect here… it still lists the Visa fee as $65. The information packet has the correct figure, though. Again, do not get alarmed by the Immigration Visa fee, which is $325. That’s not what you will be paying…)

Now we are told to wait once more.

This takes about another hour or so. Finally, we are called to a consular window and sworn in.

The Consular has looked over our file for about three minutes before calling us. As near as I can tell, he is looking for a few simple things to ask us. They don’t have time for deep investigation. There are just too many people to process. (By the way, about 25% of the people present were going for a fiancé visa. The rest were a variety of other things from student visas, to adoptions, to families immigrating.)

Victoria is asked a few things, and they speak in Russian. The Consular actually asked her if it was OK to speak in English, but she said she was too nervous, and preferred Russian. She told me later that his Russian was only so so, but better than her English, and at least he wasn’t nervous.

Occasionally, he would let me interject some things, which was helpful. A few of the questions, though, she was clearly on her own for. The only two “personal” questions asked were if she knew what I did for a living, and if she knew the reasons for my previous divorces.

Our interview lasted about five minutes. He told us our paperwork was very well done (she took great pride in that) and that there was no problem.

We were told to come back after 3:30pm to get the Visa.

It was about 12:00 when we finally left.

We went home, found an internet café and sent off happy messages to our families, and then had lunch.

At 3:25, we were back at the embassy. We had been told to go to the information window (outside again.) Again, there was a line. As we stood in a line of about twenty people, and woman came by handing out advertisements for LOT airlines. I told her thank you, but she gave us one that morning already.

She looked at me, and said: “No… come with me…” and led us to a different information window. There was no one standing in line there. I walked right up, gave the woman behind the window our name, and she handed us the visa packet!

Again, I can only assume that my American Accent helped us out again. They must have a special window set up for Americans. (As they SHOULD! I mean… it is OUR tax dollars at work there…)

I tipped the woman who helped me on my way back out, and she seemed genuinely surprised and grateful.

We were in THIS line about three minutes.
So, in the end, a lot of waiting, but nothing to be nervous about. (Though we were…)

FWIW, I didn’t see one person turned down for a Visa the whole time I was there.

The K-1 visa (and the K-2 Visa for her son) are put in the passports as a sticker -- very similar to the way Ukraine puts Visas in passports when you go there.

They also hand over a sealed packet of information which we are to show US Passport Control / Customs when we arrive in the US. (For us, that was in Boston.)

I was a little concerned because I used the Russian spelling of Victoria's name for her plane tickets, and her Ukrainian passport (and all Fiancé Visa documents) used the Ukrainian spelling. But we were never asked about the discrepancy.

We were held up briefly at the Polish passport control. Victoria had to take off her hat, and pull her hair back over her ears so she looked like she did in the photo... but it was not a big problem.

From there, we flew to Paris. Even though we had about four hours there, we couldn't sight-see, because France wouldn't let her in without a visa. I am not sure what would have happened if we had been forced to spend the night there in a hotel. As it was, it made no difference, except it would have been nice to visit the Eiffel Tower while we were there.

Customs in Boston was fairly easy. They opened the sealed packet, and looked over the paperwork. When he saw my American Passport, though, it became a rubber stamp thing, and we breezed through.

He took us to the INS office (actually, just a counter.) We had a short wait, and then an INS officer looked over the paperwork, and verified that Victoria realizes if she doesn't marry me within 90 days that she has to go home. Then he stamps the forms and we are done.

BTW, I asked the INS officer if we can travel while waiting for her permanent status, and he said that we could. He suggested that if we wanted to go to France, or something like that, that we contact their Visa department, to make sure we had all bases covered. (He wasn't sure if she would need a visa, in other words, even though I wouldn't... but he seemed to think that if she were traveling with me that getting a visa would be no problem.)

We don't plan on traveling abroad for awhile, but it is nice to know that we have the option.

All in all, the whole thing was only tense because we made it that way. In reality, other than a lot of waiting, it was easy.

The forms were clear, and the paperwork was easy to fill out.

Victoria is a smart woman, with three degrees, but I didn't get the sense that there was anything difficult in the whole process. I'm pretty sure anyone can do it. (I didn't ever look at the information packets 3 and 4...)

You simply need to follow instructions and wait.

But, as I (and many others) can attest the wait is very much worth it.

Good luck to all of you waiting!

... in response to Warsaw, INS, etc., posted by MarkInTx on Dec 14, 2002

Mark, Oscar, Jack, and all--

I had promised myself never to get into this debate again, but one last thought--

For a lot of people, getting the police report will take an extra few weeks to get.  If sending it to the INS saves you 3 weeks at Warsaw, but you have to wait an extra month to file the I-129F in the first place, how much time have you saved?  If you have all the extra stuff in hand when you are first ready to file with the INS, fine, but make sure you count any filing delay from waiting for the extras in your time saved estimate.

In any event, since there is no Packet 3 from Moscow, including extra stuff in the I-129F won't save you any time there anyway.

However you do it, and whoever you are, I hope that things get done as quickly as they can, and the ones you are trying to marry turn out to be at least half as great as the one I married two years ago.

Check you in a couple of weeks, we're off to DisneyWorld...

Steve M

... in response to Warsaw, INS, etc., posted by MarkInTx on Dec 14, 2002

Great post Mark.  I thought it particularly helpful that you outlined the procedures for the interview.  That information used to be on a website that is no longer in service so this was very helpful.  I agree that the best way to expedite the Warsaw process is to use e-mail, and not call every day like Oscar suggests.

... in response to What a nicely inflamatory post Charles.., posted by Oscar on Dec 15, 2002

Oscar,
Is there such a thing as a persecution complex?  Where  person thinks everyone is out to get them?  Where the slightest criticism provokes an angry abusive counter "attack"?  I kind of understand "transference" where a person accuses others of acts they themselves are guilty of commiting, so you need not explain that one.
-
BTW, I seem to remember many a debate between you and MarkinTx about how to handle the K-1 procedure.  His way got his fiancee here in 6 months exactly.  How long has it been for you?
KenC

... in response to Re: need your help, Oscar, posted by Oscar on Dec 15, 2002

In my opinion Oscar saved at least two weeks and probably three weeks due to the fact that the Warsaw Embassy never had to send packet 3 to his fiancee.

I have other clients who did not include this information, and know of some other guys who had filed with the INS about the same time as Oscar and most of these guys haven't even been given there interview date as of even today!

I am not sure but with the holidays coming up and the time the Embassy will be closed and not accepting any K-1's, those not getting there interview date by the third week of December could effectively lose another week or two for the holidays, so it is totally possiable Oscar got his fiancee here some three or four (or five) weeks earlier than what might have been had he not included his fiancee's police report and birth certificate when he originally filed for his K-1.

... in response to I've heard that before... but have never..., posted by MarkInTx on Dec 15, 2002

As you know, the approval numbers on the web site for interview dates are typically listed in sequential order.  My approval number on the web site for December was out of sequence.  It was listed for a day and then gone.  The numbers that would match with mine are not there for December, I am sure they will be listed in January, so I certainly do feel it helped.
And the Embassy did tell me directly that time was shaved off because of what I did (again, it was the name check that screwed things up a bit for us.  Beyond anyone's control).  I don't profess to know all the reasons why Mark, I just did what three other guys did and advised me to do, along with Jack, and it seemed to work.  I don't care to look a gift horse in the mouth.
And it would be like comparing apples to oranges comparing the Texas service center with Nebraska's.  Everyone knows Nebraska is the slowest..  

I do hope things are going well with your girl and that you will both have a nice Christmas together (along with your new kidlet.  I have wrapped about 40 presents for my girl and her son and I just picked up his bicycle today.. It was kinda fun!

... in response to Generally Agree . . ., posted by Dan on Dec 15, 2002

Dan, I remember the Thanksgiving projection and the Christmas projection, all of which have since been revised with various excuses.  Your comment may be correct.  Having dealt with government agencies you CAN upset them if you become a pest particularly when, as in the case of K-1 scheduling and processing, they hold all the cards.  If you make a pest of yourself, your file may not get the prompt treatment you want.

... in response to Truer words...., posted by LP on Dec 15, 2002

Guys, basically I discovered this by accident, as I wanted to have more than enough information submitted to the INS with regards to my K-1 packet. My feeling was I could not send too much information but I could always send not enough information.

When I did my fiancée visa I also included Natalia's police report, both in Russian and English with the English version notarized, a copy of her birth certificate also in Russian and English with the English version notarized and a copy of my affidavit of support.

The police report and birth certificate were done in a few days and sent to me by express mail so I had them by the time I had received my letter from my preacher on his letterhead indicating he had been asked to perform our wedding ceremony that was included in my packet.

When I received notice from the INS that my packet had been approved and was being forwarded to Warsaw I waited five days and then called the Embassy in Warsaw (I had also sent my request by e-mail and fax before calling).

I got a lady on the phone at the Warsaw Embassy and gave her my receipt number. After a minute she said she had found my packet and asked how she could help me. I told her that we had all our paperwork in order and that we would like to request an interview date at that time. I could hear her mumbling to her self as she was looking at various papers and she said, "it appears you have all your paperwork in order, we can give you an interview date on January 16th, which was less than three weeks from then and I of course said I would take it.

Guys, the embassy never sent Natalia packet 3, they didn't need to as this lady could clearly see we had the most important papers as outlined in packet 3. The Embassy did not have to send out the packet some 3 or 4 days later, I did not have to wait the week to 10 days for this packet to get to Odessa or the week or 10 days for Natalia to send this packet back to Warsaw and for Warsaw to mess around with getting the completed packet and notifying us. I figure I saved at least two weeks and probably three weeks buy by passing Warsaw having to send out packet 3.

Since this happened to me I know of 6 other guys who have done the same thing, exactly as I did, and each was given an interview date immediately. There were two guys who reached the Embassy in Warsaw after the packet was already mailed out and because it was already mailed out the Embassy said they would need to wait until they received the packet back before they could give an interview date. So it is important to reach the Embassy and make this request before the Embassy sends the packet out.

I think everyone should be able to make up there own minds. In my case I saved I figure three weeks and I know of six other cases where men saved from two to three weeks. Some guys may doubt it is possible because they don't want to know or except the fact that there is a better way.

Dan, you and I both feel the same about guys who have a tendency to misinform on the Internet and I just think all guys should know all the facts so they can make up there own minds. I am living proof that it can, it has, and it does happen. From the day the INS received my packet until the interview date, four months two days. If guys would rather take five months (from the Texas Service Center), then let them, but not for me!