level of literacy and FSU degrees

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Re: Lack of peanut butter sandwiches, posted by ChrisNJ on Dec 8, 2002

I started school in East London at 4 1/2 years (4 1/2 - 5 years is usual here, depends where the childs birthday falle in any year) and was nine in 1967. My wife tells me that in Ukraine the children don't even begin school until they are seven, so I had a 2 1/2 year head start here. What age do the children begin school in the US? and what age would you have been in the ninth grade?

My job means I often meet teenagers and I've noticed a marked drop in the quality of education here in the last twenty years, due I think to the low wages teachers get.

[ChrisNJ]

... in response to Re: Re: Lack of peanut butter sandwiches, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 9, 2002

We usually start school around the age of 5 (kindergarten).  Ninth grade about 14.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Lack of peanut butter sandwi..., posted by ChrisNJ on Dec 9, 2002

We have kindergarten (nursery schools) for the 2 to 5 year olds. the real stuff with pencils and paper starts at primary school 5 to 11 years. We count 1st year primary, 2nd year primary etc. then after 11, 1st year high etc. Finish at 16 years.

[id]

... in response to level of literacy and FSU degrees, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 7, 2002

All skilled migrants coming from non-english-speaking backgrounds face this problem, it's not an FSU-related issue. Degrees is natural sciences and engineering are easily recognized here, economists, lawyers, tourism consultants are not so lucky for obvious reasons. No-one will ever employ a doctor as a nurse, they are considered over-qualified. Employers are wary of hiring these newcomers as they are all too aware of their lack of communication skills and big differences in workplace culture. Many of them never get a skilled job, again that concerns say, Chinese as much as Russians.
Also, RW are more traditional than AW, many of them never intend to have a career, those get their degrees just for the sake of educating themselves somewhat, they drag along and put just enough effort into their studies so as not to drop out of the uni.
And finally, math is the same in the UK and Ukraine, but tourism isn't.
id

[RW]

... in response to level of literacy and FSU degrees, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 7, 2002

You have to compare apples to apples in this case.

There are top-class specialists in Russia who are constantly offered contracts to work in USA, there are people who get degrees just for the sake of having a diploma. Most Moscow and other well-known University's diploma get full credits in USA, depends which school you went to.

Doctors have to take exams to prove the knowledge of the subject. If you have good language skills and study for while, you can do it. The prblem is - lack of English plus very specific questions - like legal issues pertaining the aborions or deseases which are specific to older age and which has not been studied in Russia because of shorter life span. There are similiar situations in other areas and any specialist would consider it necessary to study those before they start working in a new country, woulnd't they?

After all, it all boils down to the person. If you are smart enough you can take tests and skip all the basic classes. I think the major problem what the ladies are facing is to select what they want to do in the future and what would be interesting for them. It is quite different concept from the situation when they had to work before just to make living and never thought if the work was really what interested them. If the lady was in the field she has a good knowledge about and just loves doing - she would have no problem continuing, will just take time and patience to do all the certifications and requirements.

Russian Wife

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to level of literacy and FSU degrees, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 7, 2002

You made a valid point about how physicians, engineers, etc from FSU  have difficulty getting decent jobs and I concur with you completely.

It all boils down to language barrier. For physicians, for instance if the medical college is approved by WHO (which majority in FSU are) then they are eligible to take the National Boards in US. I presume it is similar to the PLAB in UK. The problem is that have studied it in Russian language and the exams are in English. And trust me, these exams are tricky since they play with English words many times than the actual subject and unless one has a good grasp of the language one can easily fail. The Indians and Pakistanis have an edge in that their education back home are in English and they blend easily in the English speaking countries. Just image you taking your exam in what ever speciality you studied in Russian language. It is gonna be tough; probably you may fare worse than your wife :-)

I have many colleagues (physicians) from FSU who managed to overcome the hurdle of passing the national boards. Sometimes when I talk to them they seem to create an impression of lack of knowledge but when I look at it objectively, they still have problems expressing themselves in English and not lack of knowledge per say.

In case of my wife she got credit for practically all her stuff she studied in linguistics when she applied here in US for BS in computer science. They have to skip some subjects which are not related unfortunately since she made a big jump in speciality. Her impression was the education in US is a piece of cake compared to the rigors of study back home in Ukraine. Well I have to believe her since she is watching TV always and I wonder how she manges A grade always.

If one looks at the glory days of FSU, they were neck to neck in advancement in technology compared to the West combined, in space and other technology. That doesn’t come from cheap quality education.

The problem with English speaking countries is that some of them believes that the whole world revolves around English and anybody who can’t express themselves in that language is second rate. I am sure the Russian might have thought the same way about the rest of the world too.

That reminds me of a Russian joke:

What you call a person who speaks 3 languages. Trilingual.
What you call a person who speaks 2 languages. Bilingual
What you call a person who speaks one language. American

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Re: level of literacy and FSU degrees, posted by Ukrainelover on Dec 7, 2002

It always amazed me that the first nation to put a man in space couldn't build a decent car. Moskvich was built on Opal techology with engineers taken from Germany after WWII and the Lada is just a re-vamped Fiat. Did you ever ride in a Volga?

[BubbaGump]

... in response to advancement in technology , posted by Pordzhik on Dec 8, 2002

Isn't there a Russian saying that you are about as proud of a Lada as you are of having an unwed daughter that got knocked up?

[Pordzhik]

... in response to What they say about the Lada...., posted by BubbaGump on Dec 9, 2002

I first started seeing these things on British streets about 1980. The USSR was dumping them here to earn hard currency, priced at about £1,200-£1,600 at a time when even the cheapest British made cars were priced at more than double that. Even at one year old the re-sale value of ladas was about 30% of that, the sellers couldn't give them away. After the break-up of the USSR Russian freighters began coming here and buying them all up and shipping them back.

[ChrisNJ]

... in response to advancement in technology , posted by Pordzhik on Dec 8, 2002

...It always amazed me that the first nation to put a man in space couldn't build a decent car...

They were using "flying by the seat of your pants technology".  The computer on your desk is many times more powerful than the computers on Apollo 11 IMO.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Re: advancement in technology , posted by ChrisNJ on Dec 8, 2002

I think because the FSU had a military based economy, consumer goods were not very important for the state in their closed society, and their economy was kept stagnant.  They never exported much but raw materials and military hardware.  No Bosch, no Maytag, no Texas Instruments, no John Deere, no Boeing, and because of this, they suffer today.

[micha1]

... in response to Re: level of literacy and FSU degrees, posted by Ukrainelover on Dec 7, 2002

you have said it,  
hit it right on the nail head.

[BarryM]

... in response to level of literacy and FSU degrees, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 7, 2002

Masters, Doctorates, Professor(a higher degree than Doctorate in the FSU and requires a second dissertation).

Core sciences, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Biochemistry, Mathematics, and Geology. Arts and Architecture. Engineering: Civil, Electrical, Chemical, and Mechanical.

All of the above are recognized in the US and there are many from the FSU working here at Universities with the FSU degrees above.

-blm

[BURKE89]

... in response to Higher degrees...., posted by BarryM on Dec 7, 2002

respond to, and micro...

Rather strange, indeed.

Babble on, in your AD... inspired hunt lad. I'll continue, in my quest for a Russian gal with: values, integrity & history "ringin'" in her ear.

Vaughn (*eatin'* Almonds in the land of the "Duke" - Yes, the state you've insulted, so feebly).

[Pordzhik]

... in response to The lad,  you once called a troll,  you ..., posted by BURKE89 on Dec 7, 2002

dvgad