Yes...she was a major Red Flag...Part 3

[Oscar]

... in response to no one mentioned your name.  n/t, posted by KenC on Nov 17, 2002

I know you are Dan's best friend, but I would expect more than this even from you..  everyone on this board knows who he was referring to.  Do you truly want to continue to defend that behavior?

Unbelievable Ken...

[KenC]

... in response to Ken-, posted by Oscar on Nov 17, 2002

n/t

[Oscar]

... in response to guilty conscience?  If the shoe fits ---..., posted by KenC on Nov 17, 2002

Supporting that kind of garbage.. A new low for you, really..

[KenC]

... in response to Sorry Ken, you should be the one with th..., posted by Oscar on Nov 17, 2002

n/t

[Oscar]

... in response to post ignored  n/t, posted by KenC on Nov 18, 2002

.

[don1]

... in response to Re: Absolutely Correct . . ., posted by wilmc on Nov 16, 2002

We heard ya , wilmc . Whenever I've been guilty of 'jumping to conclusions' or ' not looking before I leapt ' , it was always some guy who said '..hey , wait a minute , let me see if I've got this straight here first ..' who kept me outta trouble .

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Yes...she was a major Red Flag...Par..., posted by wilmc on Nov 16, 2002

Like as if we should care how a SCAMMER feels about the USA??  Do you hear what you are saying??  Do you also worry that Saddam might have some negative feelings about our country??  ;-)  

I do not look at giving her a false WU number as "revenge" but to help her understand that perhaps trying to scam is more trouble than it is worth.  In fact, NOT to try to teach her anything would be the wrong thing to do.  It may only cause a little inconvenience but if a few guys did it, she might decide scamming is not worth the trouble..  Also, they may start to get wise to her at the Western Union office, and that would be great too!
 
Not possible this is a "misunderstanding".  Woman after 3 letters saying send me $800+ for visa and plane ticket??  C'mon!  I have some lovely Oceanside property I would love to show you... in Utah! LOL!

The one thing I DO agree with is that he should post her profile at the scammer web sites!  That is always helpful.

[wilmc]

... in response to Are you kidding me??, posted by Oscar on Nov 16, 2002

You may be right that she is a scoundrel.  

But I still feel that your proposed response is reprehensible.

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Are you kidding me??, posted by wilmc on Nov 16, 2002

Reprehensible?  To cause a little inconvenience to a scammer who is trying her best to take as much money as she can get from trusting American men??  

Don't you think you are overdoing it just a bit??  Again, you have GOT to be kidding me!  

I think to just "forget about it" as you would suggest, is about the most irresponsible thing you could do!

[Dan]

... in response to Re: Re: Are you kidding me??, posted by Oscar on Nov 16, 2002

Obviously, from a differeing point of view - the MOST irresponsible thing is to:

(1) presume you can KNOW if someone is guilty or innocent when you are NOT a part of the situation,
(2) promote to others vengeful acts that are rooted in murky one-sided beginnings,
(3) take apparent pleasure in the likelihood of intentionally inflicting pain on another.

Now THAT is irresponsible!

- Dan

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Yes...she was a major Red Flag...Par..., posted by wilmc on Nov 16, 2002

that peoples of the world will take a dimmer view on all Americans for pinging a scammer.  And the only reason the scammers proliferate is just because American guys send money after a few emails.  With no risk to the scammer.

These scammers are just petty and not so petty criminals.  Organized into rings and unorganized freelancers.  Some are little Vorey (mafia) boilerroom operations.  I shudder to think how much money passes through Western Union each year into the pockets of these conners.  It must be sizable,  as I am sure Western Union is quite aware of.  

The scammer is almost assured of no problems....no risk...this only makes them squirm a little and takes about 1 minute per email.

[wilmc]

... in response to I tend to disagree with the blanket asse..., posted by tim360z on Nov 16, 2002

I did not suggest that "scammer" should not be exposed.  If in fact she was one.  If the RW in question was in fact a "scammer."  The evidence given was inconclusive.  

What I said was that the tactic of sending phony WU numbers was ignoble.  I would hope that the AM who participate in this forum would have better characters than the "scammers."  Perhaps I expect too much.  That is too bad.

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: I tend to disagree with the blanket ..., posted by wilmc on Nov 16, 2002

and its not a subject I want to spend any more  time with.  Its really not that interesting for me,  but for the new guy out there who has never even seen this board and is a complete novice...he is definitely going to be going to WU to send out some money to some "girl" he just met on a singles site.  Some get fleeced very badly.  Like in life.

About 1 1/2 years ago,  when I was quite new to this,  I was fleeced for maybe $125 (not much over 4 months) for translations,  by a "translation" agency with a girl who did not quite exist.  Dan,  a true gentleman, helped me unravel the game.  But,  the game was for peanuts.  I severed ties and that was it.  Clean,  and both the supposed girl and the "agency" were suddenly posted on scam boards by others.

For the novice,  without any support or knowledge...he's gonna get reamed.  With the rise of the internet--- the scams are a plethora.  When some unknowledgeable guy throws a grand to some supposed girl for visa and plane ticket and really expects her to arrive...he's in trouble.  

Usually,  you're not even being scammed by the girl.  Her photos are the lure and the bait to attract the fish.  She may not even know her photos are being used for this.  Usually,  its a criminal enterprise and the risks are quite minimal for Dimitri and Serge who are running the little internet show.  With a stable of photos they got from some photographers...for a few rubles.

Some time ago,  Jack conjectured that 40% of the internet ads were scams.  The % keeps growing,  I am sure...its easy money.  And not taxable.  

If you know...for sure--- that you are being scammed--I see nothing wrong with making Serge and Dimitri squirm...look behind their backs as they walk down the street.  Maybe?  the police???  Maybe not?  Risk should always be a factor if you scam others,  I think.  Goes for Wall Street too.

Personally,  I don't have a cause here..at all.  People get screwed...nothin' I can really do about it.  And there is really no substitute for knowing some real nice FSU ladies,  because they would never scam you like that...they would find it demeaning...almost unthinkable.

[wilmc]

... in response to Well,  Bill nothing wrong with differing..., posted by tim360z on Nov 16, 2002

Good Golly!  How do these exchanges get so misunderstood. We are all using our native tongue. Yet, our responses seem to get all twisted around.  How in Heaven's name do we expect to understand the poor ladies of the FSU, or they us.

My concern is two fold.  First that we give these ladies the benefit of the doubt before we rush to label them "scammers."  Let me ask you, when you invite an AW to go away on a weekend with you did you always ask her to go "Dutch?"  Remember most of the RW's have very little money.

Second, that we just try to employ the "Golden Rule."

Everyone who seeks a relationship with a lady from the FSU should use extreme caution and as a general rule not send money.

I have no "loyalty" to the lady in question.  I agree that from what was reported she does sound suspicious and at the very least should be passed by.

Perhaps I have been lucky and my experience is limited.  In addition, I am older and the ladies I have corresponded with and met have all been well over 30 years of age.  I have met only one who I suspect was a scammer.  I did write and call another who I suspected was an alcoholic.  My correspondence has been with 12.  They are all intelligent, charming and decent ladies. I have met and vacationed with 4.  I am a good friend to all 4.  Two of whom have married other gentlemen.  Finally, I have become very serious about one RW who is four years my junior.    Some of the 12 did ask for financial assistance but when I explained that I was uncomfortable sending money to someone I had not met I found them all, save one, to be reasonable and understanding.  Not the 40% you quoted.  

I do not support "scammers."  I want them exposed, prosecuted and "Black Listed."  

I do not know what can be done to protect the novices from "Dimiti and Serge."  Heck, the internet is full of scams.  I keep getting offered a deal for millions from Nigeria.  Hopefully the new boys will seek advice from this forum.  But you do not know that the person you are dealing with is "D and S" or some poor girl who doesn't know better than ask for assistance from her new filthy rich AM pen pal.  Who probably told her all about his 3 cars and McMansion.  

In my humble opinion if you send a RW phoney WU numbers your conduct is as bad as the "scammers" and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Let your conscience be your guide.

[juio99]

... in response to Re: Yes...she was a major Red Flag...Par..., posted by wilmc on Nov 16, 2002

about.  But there is another side of this 'ugly American' coin.  I have heard it said by both RW and RM that we Americans are so naive and trusting.  The feeling is that because of our 'good hearts' we are fairly easy targets for all sorts of schemes both in romance and in business.

So perhaps it is not such a bad idea to, once in a while, show that we are not quite the 'pushovers' that they take us to be.

JR