Looks like you're both right

[Patrick]

And you're both banned.  It's a shame.  You've both made valuble contributions to the board over an extended time.  But the place has been looking like a school yard fight for too long.

Perhaps after a time I'll allow you both back if I'm convinced that you can contribute without the constant fighting, but right now, that's obviously not the mode either of you are in.

[thesearch]

... in response to Looks like you're both right, posted by Patrick on Oct 14, 2002

I understand where you were coming from but, IMHO when you said any comment even if mild would qualify to be banned, you were drawing the line too close. I think that it should be for any repeat behavior of equal quality or lack of quality as you might put it.

I want to find out if Mark ever really does this FSU thing from start to finish and what approach will finally work for him.  

As for Jack, he has had some great posts that tend to give people some very good perspective on this whole process.

So, why don't you compromise and let them both back in say ten years? No questions asked. What ya think?

Better yet, how bout two weeks? If you do not want to have to take back your words on your warning I have a great option for you that gets you off the hook --- you could get out of that dilemma by having us vote on it. I mean I think that you made your point. Also, I do think that you do a great job on handling the site.

[thesearch]

... in response to Hey Patrick, posted by thesearch on Oct 15, 2002

The post above this

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Hey Patrick, posted by thesearch on Oct 15, 2002

If you let them back, you need to let spike back, too... and DavidSD and... and... and...

Do the words "Slippery Slope" ring a bell?

[thesearch]

... in response to I vote for ten years..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 15, 2002

I would be curious to see a list of who would be banned if you were King. LOL

[MarkInTx]

... in response to /, posted by thesearch on Oct 16, 2002

Frankly, I think that Patrick does a damn fine job.

I have no complaints with his current list of the "banned."

There are a couple of guys who have made posts I disagree with... but I wouldn't ban them for it.

Frankly, if more guys would speak up, less bannings would be needed. This group has the capability of policing itself. It's just that too often good men say nothing, and the confrontations escalate out of control...

[Dan]

... in response to I vote for ten years..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 15, 2002

After all, it's Patrick's sandbox we all play in here. He, alone, makes the rules - and he can let back in anyone he wishes - at whatever time he wishes -- or not.

In any case, he certainly doesn't "need" to let those other nutcases back in if he should choose to allow Jack and/or MarkH back on the board.

- Dan

[DonP]

... in response to Looks like you're both right, posted by Patrick on Oct 14, 2002

I have been one of those lurking in the background for quite a while off and on and finally feel I should comment regarding the banning of Jack and MarkH.

See my profile so you can know my history.

As those of you who have been on this board for quite a while know that Jack has been 'usually' quite helpful to everyone, but he lets his emotion get too involved and allows those who know how to push his buttons do it and gets caught up in the petty stuff. Maybe this banning will help him to reflect better and learn to not go off on those who just like to antagonize and don't reallly have much useful informations to share. This is what I have observed from MarkH over the past year and this is what caused the problems between so many individuals. He is not the only one who has done this, but he and Jack went over the limit in their last squabbles.  

The people out here still need to refer any new people to
First Dreams as this appears to be a legitimate place to find the beautiful, kind and loving RW. He has done more good than bad for this board and now it is just time for a cooling off period and reflection on what is important.

Through the 2 years or so total I have been lurking, I have offered some help and advice when I felt I could help and still maintain some correspondence with a couple of guys I have met out here. I say this only so you don't think I have never responded to anyone or anything before. Most of the people out here have done a great job in sharing their knowledge of experiences and that is what this board is for,
helping others who need help. We should do this with an open non-judgemental mind and heart and feel glad that we are able to help your fellow amn in his quest to find love and happiness with that wonderful creature we call RW!!

Now here is the famous closing so many people make out there yet it seems to be appropriate here as this is my opinion only based on just observing for quite a while. Just as everyone has a 'butthole', so does everyone have an opinion. This is mine and take it for what it is worth.

Play nice and enjoy what you have to offer each other.

DonP

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Looks like you're both right, posted by DonP on Oct 15, 2002

I'm trying to help you guys out here.

I know that you all are very interested in making sure that no one attacks someone who isn't here to defend themselves.

I mean... I BELIEVE you when you say you are only looking out for ANYONE who can't defend themseleves...

So... I guess you must have just missed it when DonP (in his post) said this:

"Maybe this banning will help [Jack] to reflect better
and learn to not go off on those who just like to
antagonize and don't really have much useful
informations to share. This is what I have observed
from MarkH over the past year and this is what caused
the problems between so many individuals."

Let me break that down for you... DonP said that MarkH "Just likes to Antagonize" and "Doesn't have useful information to share"

Sounds like an "Attack" to me.

So... go get him boys! Go on! Defend the defenseless.

Let's see you jump on DonP like you jumped on me for attacking the guy who can't defend himself...

You only want to do what is right... after all... right?

I mean... surely your taking me to task didn't have anything to do with personal bias for Jack... right?

[Dan]

... in response to BTW, Dan... Oscar... Et Al..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 16, 2002

n/t

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Yeah Mark - You're Just the 'Victim' LOL..., posted by Dan on Oct 16, 2002

Never claimed to be a victim. Dunno where you get that. The fact that you apply a double standard affects me not in the least. If anyone is the "victim" here it is Mark H, and I'm sure he doesn't care, either.

You, however, are a fraud.

You speak up for Jack when he is attacked, and yet remain strangely silent when Mark H is attacked.

Admit it... your "indignation" had nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of my post. It was just because Jack was your buddy.  In fact... don't admit it. No one is fooled, anyway.

I daresay even the Good Doctor can see through this one...

Clearly if all you cared about was fair play, then you would take up for Mark H too. But you won't do that. Neither will Oscar.

Not that I am at all surprised. It's just nice when it becomes so clear...

[Oscar]

... in response to No, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 16, 2002

It was a very small sentence or two about Mark H., and from what I remember (which isn't much) it was only about that the poster thought Mark was baiting Jack, or something to that effect, where you seemed to go on post after post about Jack.  No, I don't think it's ok to attack Mark H. either for what it's worth.

You really need to let some of this stuff go.. Geez, get out a little more or something..

[Dan]

... in response to No, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 16, 2002

I have, indeed, spoken up for MarkH - on more than one occasion - as he has done for me.

No wonder that your (selective) reading skipped over that. You consistently 'see' whatever it is you want to see - and more importantly, are blind to those things you choose not to look at. The unfortunate part of it is that you are so massively-egotistical that you don't seem to be able to consider the value in what others offer. Even worse is that others will likely suffer from your myopia.

As for the "victim" statement - that is pretty obvious. It is your whining about me, Oscar "et al" who you claim are one-sided in their attacks on you. Exactly what a person with a victim-complex would do - in spite of the facts.

Cheers Mark. It's a new day!

- Dan

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Looks like you're both right, posted by DonP on Oct 15, 2002

Well, the term is "banned" and it is (as always) Patrick's call... but I didn't get the sense that this was a cooling off period.

I got the sense it was more of a: "You're gone unless you can REALLY convince me that it's never going to happen again ... and even then I'll have to think about it..."

Yes, Jack helped some guys on here. Yes, he had some good insight because he DID spend a lot of time over there.

But it is also true that he would attack people incessantly. He ran off several other Agency owners. And the fact that he couldn't let go of his feud with Mark H is nothing short of amazing. It isn't like Patrick didn't give him every chance...

Frankly, his childish behavior makes me think twice about EVER recommending him again. (I have in the past... but not any more...)

You say we should send all new guys to FirstDream?

WHY?

Why not LifeTime Partners? Why not A Kherson Rose? Why not RW's terrific service?

There are other agencies that guys have used and raved about.

Why should we send everyone to Jack?

Is he an honest agency owner? I believe so, yes. But he CERTAINLY hasn't cornered the market on it.

There are many agencies worthy of recommendations. And, increasingly, guys are finding it possible to do this without the help of an agency at all.

Why should we shill for Jack?

I don't agree with that at all...

[Quasimoto]

... in response to I don't agree, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 15, 2002

I am one of those people Jack got into it with. I simply don't like the man or respect him. However, I disagree about one issue. I have recommended to people that they use his agency, in spite of the fact that he fabricated crap about me here and on the RWL site. I went after him too! I just didn't make up lies about him or his agency. How can I do it? Simple! It is in the best interest of everyone involved - Not just Jack! I have never used his serivices! I only know personally of some who have. I have seen some success. So I don't think the opportunity should be lost. I don't think Jack's agency is the only opportunity. I just think it is probably a very good one. Jack may have some personal issues, but I think he has to be given credit for the things he does well.

Steve