My Recent Trip to Ukraine

[Scaught]

I just had the best vacation I ever had in my life spending a little more than two weeks in Ukraine. It was the third visit. The first time was to see one special woman who I corresponded with first, and the second and last trip was to her her again.

What made this trip so special was that I rented a car from Avis (go to their website for details if you wish) the entire time and we traveled throughout a great deal of the Western portion of the country, seeing several castles along the way. Some of the highlights were Kiev, Lviv, Ughzgorod [sic] Yaremche and Odessa, but the spaces in between were wonderful.

I had read before leaving that gas stations were hard to find, but they are everywhere. I never came close even in rural areas running out of gas. And the prices were almost exactly the same everywhere I went.

Hotels are even out in the middle of nowhere, except apparently an hour or two outside Odessa (we did see one, but the exterior gave us the creeps). We avoided the hotels which charged me double for being a foreigner. We also walked away from old-skool rude receptionists at hotels and always found better places.

Another thing is dealing with the police. I was stopped three times and threatened with going to court each time. That statement is the cue to hand them 20 gyrvnia [sic] , although one time we had to cough up 30 -- that four dollars twice and six once. They'll try to play up that you are a rich American, European, or whatever fits, so downplay your wealth, (just like when writing to the ladies!). I advise following the speed limits when the signs say to slow down to 50 kilometers. One problem is that there are no signs that tell you to resume fast speed. It's left up to you to know that you have passed the village (the reason for slowing down) and can resume speed.

Also, in rural areas, cows will block the roads now and then. Some of these big critters have horns and could scrape up your car. The farmers will make a path for you and/or another car with work its way through, helping you to squeeze through.

There were a few times when I thought I was about to run over a dog, but my squealing brakes were heard by their supersensitive ears. After a few times like these, I tapped the horn to get their attention, then I never had any more trouble with them.

Another thing is that in rural areas you may need to stop now and then and ask someone to make sure you are on the right road. Sometimes the road signs are not that clear, just like sometimes in the U.S.

The drivers are very aggressive. Drivers routinely pass going up steep hills and on deep curves when there is no possibility of knowing what's coming. Head-on collisions are avoided by turning back into your lane-- the other guys always let folks back in. Be alert at all times for cars coming at you in your lane and be prepared to slow down to give them time to get back in their lanes. I drive a bimmer in the US and actually like aggressive driving, but I still won't attempt to pass cars on hills or deep curves when I can't see what's coming.

Another matter is you'll need to know how to work the air vents like a maestro as you'll encounter very slow moving trucks (15 mph on the freakin highway!) everywhere. The diesel fumes can overcome you. Many passenger cars are the same way. We're talking big clouds of the stuff. So close the vents when you see the clouds, pass the car when safe, then open them again. You might have an air circulation switch that you can switch to that you recirculates the air in the car-- this can help, too.

Some of the best food we had was at villages in the midst of nowhere that had only one restaurant. We also picnicked a lot. We'd  stop at the numerous roadside food stands and get fresh cucumbers, tomatoes, melons and watermelons. The sausage and bread we always kept with us was bought in the larger towns or smaller cities that we passed from time to time. Those products kept well for a few days, then we got more. We stopped at picturesque places for these meals-- at one places, a family of huge storks flew overhead amid green hilly pastures and fresh air.

I had so many experiences, I couldn't possibly find the time to write even ten percent of it down and it would have to provide personal details on my relationship, which I don't want to share.

My point in bringing this travel oriented post here is that we all know that going on a road trip with a woman will help you to get to know her quite well very quickly. In my experience, this works in Ukraine with Ukrainian women, too. We both got to know each other way, way, way more than if we were hanging out in one place together. We saw how we could work to together to get places and we saw our personalities (strengths, weaknesses, and quirks) revealed.

If you feel confident in driving in the conditions I described, I recommend renting a car, really seeing the country and really getting to know someone you have already made a connection with that has potential for growing.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002

Interesting and unique post - thanks.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002


You are much more brave than I am!

I am curious... how did you know how much bribe to offer when you were stopped by the police?

[Ramblin]

... in response to Re: My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 18, 2002

When I was being driven on the outskirts of Simferopol, Eugene the driver, got waved over by the police.  The policeman said, "Why did you pass that car?"  Eugene said, "So you could get your 10 Hyrvinia."  The policeman said, "Right, so I could get my 10 Hyrvinia."  So it looks like the rate for Americans is double.  He also said that the fee the judge would require would be the same 10 Hyrvinia but it would require a whole day to appear in court.

[Scaught]

... in response to Re: My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 18, 2002

I was told by numerous sources (some place I can't recall somewhere on the internet, a friend in Kiev, and a rental car rep) that 20 hyrvnia is the rate for the populace. Foreigners are pressured to pay more as they are in many hotels.

I was told by a Kiev native that a properly processed ticket (not paying off the cop) always results in a trip to court, even just to plead guilty and pay one dollar! It's not worth anyone's time, so people are encouraged to just pay the police officer and I think everyone is happier for it, at least in the short run. The long term effect on society may be erosive of morality... see film at
eleven: ]

[tim360z]

... in response to My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002

tips and rules of the road.

[WmGo]

... in response to My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002

Great post. Thanks. I like the idea of a long road trip like that to flesh out the reality of the relationship. Great idea.

[Rags]

... in response to Re: My Recent Trip , posted by WmGo on Aug 17, 2002

Yes, a little time on the road (together-alone) makes you find some common ground and give you a feel for one another It shows you how you two will act and react to life's situations together as opposed to going on "dates" everyday or even "playing house".

I prefer the RAILroad trip though as you don't have to keep your concentration on the road or your hands on the wheel.

It's a little less flexible but that's what those $2 cab rides are for.

Hook up and go somewhere that is new and different for both of you and you share something special that you won't get hanging around her town.

This is not to say that spending time with her friends and family is not important. They are the ones that will give the final approval to your relationship.

[Scaught]

... in response to Re: My Recent Trip , posted by WmGo on Aug 17, 2002

n/t

[MNKenr]

... in response to My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002

I almost rented a car from Hertz in Kiev. However the cost was just too much. I am curious to know what your rental cost was, and what your milage allotment was?

I would love to tour the country for 2 weeks, but Hetz did not have a good plan for cross country travel.

Maybe you can get some quick advice on the rental program you used.

Thanks.

MNKenr

[Jack]

... in response to My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002

Great report! It has been some time since you last posted.

What did you pay to rent the car, was it by the day, week or month. Was mileage a factor in the cost of the rental? What about insurance, did you have to buy any seperate insurance? And the insurance that you got, did it cover the other guy should you have hit him.

What city did you rent the car from and is it the same city you returned the car?

Did you get to visit eastern Ukraine, Kharkov/Lugansk?

Were you able to get many good photos and if so will you be able to post them?

Sounds like a very interesting, educational and fun trip? I ask you so many questions because I might do the same.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: My Recent Trip to Ukraine, posted by Jack on Aug 17, 2002

I'm clueless on that.

Post the photos.... I can help you, if need be.

http://www.geocities.com/eewife

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: What is a "bimmer" ?, posted by wsbill on Aug 17, 2002

Dah!!! I know what that is.

[Scaught]

... in response to Re: Could it be a BeeeeMW'er ?, posted by wsbill on Aug 17, 2002

I rented through Avis because they offered a real deal compared to Hertz. Including all fees, I paid $800 for 16 days. I don't believe there is a weekly rate. I had unlimited mileage and could go anywhere in the country (Hertz could restrict travel to the Kiev area! Boo! Hiss!). Paying for insurance was encouraged by Avis and was probably a smart idea, but I didn't get any and had no incidences. I had a really nice car-- an Opel with leather seats. It must have had about 180/200 horsepower-- it rocked. It was brand new with AC and a cd player-- very, very comfortable and with automatic transmission and locks. An automatic is hard to rent over there. I had to buy 95 octane gas for the car, which averaged 2 hyrvnia [sic] a liter. I brought over my own car lock-- the kind that makes it impossible to push the brake pedal down. The car also had a transmission lock, so it was impossible for anyone to steal this car.

To rent from Avis, you can make the reservations online. They are not at the airport. They are in Kiev. Let them know your flight number and date and they will meet you at the airport with the car. I found the staff to be very, very professional and friendly. They two people I worked with both spoke English. They told me Avis may be more conveniently located at the airport starting next year. I would definitely rent through them again. As a bonus, as you can see online (Avis), if you rent a car in Europe you can get a great deal on leasing a cellphone. I took advantage of this offer and had a phone in case of emergencies (none transpired) and for you-know-who to call her mom now and then.

I didn't see the eastern part of the country. I saved some for next time.

I do have tons of pictures, but the vast majority feature you-know-who, so I can't post them somewhere.

At the airport there are two other car rental companies. I don't know about their rates.

I had never heard about someone doing this before, but I wasn't looking forward to hanging around in one or two cities, being taxied around, spending a great deal of time in hotel rooms and leaving Ukraine a third time without feeling that I really saw the country. But mainly, I knew I would be able to get to know you-know-who exponentially better. I had good experiences the other two times, but this time I will never ever forget. There were ten thousand times the experiences and it was a blast! We talked about touring other countries the same way and probably will.

And, yes, a bimmer is a BMW. In no way does this imply that I have any money whatsoever. I just wanted to make the point that driving there is not for people who get worked up driving in much less than ideal conditions. Also I should have added that the police are standing in the road-- they don't expect to come after you in cars. They make a hand gesture for you to stop. Then the fun begins. I suggest having a 20 hyrvnia bill (with maybe an extra ten) in your shirt pocket at all times so you won't have to open your wallet or dig through your pockets, revealing a wad of cash. Also, your girlfriend can tell a story saying that you are poor and are here on a government grant for whatever and she is your assistant. This can keep the sum low. Don't offer the money immediately. Wait until after the lecture that you could have killed someone and that you need to see the judge in the morning. Your offer will be rejected if given prematurely. Be friendly, but not happy. You-know-who told me to smile. They may be long-winded in trying to intimidate you for some real money, but stay cool.

Another thing is that off the major roads you'll see very large holes every now and then.

I saw traffic signs that I couldn't decipher. I did my best to follow the rules, but couldn't several times. If your you-know-who has a license and actually drives, she will be your guide through this.

I also tried to set a good example for Avis of us so they would be encouraged to not be as draconian as Hertz. As a goodwill gesture, I had the car handwashed before returning it. I had the tires cleaned. The car looked the same as when I dropped it off. Moments before the wash it was the grimiest contraption in the country.

I hope I answered all your questions. If this sounds like the kind of trip for you, go for it. And don't forget to bring you-know-who. She'll probably be as excited as you to see the country as she probably has never experienced it before.

[MNKenr]

... in response to Reply to MNKen/Jack et al, posted by Scaught on Aug 17, 2002

How well do you speak Russian? I would have a difficult time speaking with the police if I was forced to. I delt with my share of paying off officials (every time haveing to deal with customs) over there, so a few police stops do not seem that threatening. Would they chase you and throw you in jail if you would not stop?

I checked the Avis site. You can rent a good mid size car with all the insurance coverage for $100 a day (for a 6 day rental). You can hire a personal driver for the same cost, but driving yourself would be more fun if you are into exploring like that (I personally am)

Did you have to get a special international drivers license, or did your normal license work? What do you think the chances are that someone dents or damages the car just because it is there and brand new?

I will seriously think about this for my next trip in October.

Thanks for the information.

MNKen