the unnaturalness of it all

[greg2]

... in response to Or, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 21, 2002

I do not profess to know what is the chicken and what is the egg in this evolution.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to I can not argue with you, posted by greg2 on Jul 21, 2002

That's never stopped you before ;-)

[greg2]

... in response to Re: I can not argue with you, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 21, 2002

Mark, do you realize that your  post implies that I wish to argue for arguements sake and not for a valid purpose? This post could suggest that you never really did understand what I was talking about with what you are referring to. No problem. Not important - so best not to bring it up Mark. We both know that it will go no where.

[greg2]

... in response to Re: I can not argue with you, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 21, 2002

If I disagree, I will argue if I have a position on the issue.

[KenC]

... in response to Yea but, posted by greg2 on Jul 20, 2002

Greg,
Is the breakdown of the family (divorce) a result of women in the workforce or is there so many divorces because women are in the workforce?  The ol chicken/egg debate.  Sorry, I aint buying the idea that women work to be safe for the unknown future.
KenC

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Yea but, posted by KenC on Jul 21, 2002

But, you are right:

You reap what you sow.

[Zink]

... in response to Yea but, posted by greg2 on Jul 20, 2002

The biggest difference I noticed between people here(both Canada and the US) and in Russia is, We whine and blame others for all our problems. Russians shrug say,"yes, this is bad". And then go on with life. No Russian thinks that the world is going to be handed to them on a silver platter. Unfortunately a lot of people in the west seem to think that. And when it doesn't happen they feel sorry for themselves. Comparing North American life to Russian life is tricky because we have different baseline assumptions about things. There are lots of similarities but the differences jump out and bite us occasionally.

The world is the way it is. We just have to learn to deal with it. And for KenC. Maybe if the last generation of fathers didn't totally ignore the kids in order to work, then the women wouldn't have been able to corrupt their minds?(lol)

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Yea but, posted by Zink on Jul 20, 2002

Zink,
I am all in favor of men being an integral part of child rearing, just not replacements for the Mommas.  Two of my greatest accomplishments in life have been my children.  I believe that Americans (Canadians too?) have gotten away from the balance of what made men manly and women feminine.  We are too fricken PC to tell it like it should be.
KenC

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Re: Yea but, posted by KenC on Jul 21, 2002


I agree.

I also find it amazing at how the role of "provider" is denegrated in our society.

I went to this intensive marriage counselling once, and we had three couples there with us. During one session, we were all supposed to talk about our parents. I cannot count how many times I heard (about the father): "Well, he was a good provider, I guess... but..."

You know, back in the day when I lived on a farm, I watched the head of the household leave at sunrise and come home at dark. In the summer time, that is a LONG day. I don't think anyone ever said to him: "Well, I guess you're a good provider...but..."

My dad used to get up before us to take the train to work, and often times get home at about our bedtime.

Did I ever doubt that he loved us? Not at all.

Why is working hard to provide for a family suddenly not loving them?

My life is different. I work at home. So, I see my daughter a lot.

But I never feel that I love her more than my father loved me.

[Zink]

... in response to Re: Re: Yea but, posted by KenC on Jul 21, 2002

As much as I hate to admit it, Canadians are a lot more like Americans than different. And I agree with you that the PC bs is getting out of hand. I'm all for being polite and respectful. But not at the cost of losing sight of reality. I'm a country boy. Not a lot of political correctness around here on either side of the border. Unfortunately it goes too far the other way at times. I know lots of hicks and rednecks. It's so hard for people to find some kind of balance. We seem to be designed to go to extremes.

[greg2]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yea but, posted by Zink on Jul 21, 2002

Yes it seems that imbalance is the trend for humans versus balance in all things.

[yoe]

... in response to the unnaturalness of it all, posted by KenC on Jul 20, 2002

I hope you do not mind-I did not use your name.
Joe

[wsbill]

... in response to the unnaturalness of it all, posted by KenC on Jul 20, 2002

KenC does your Russian Wife work ?

If so, what your pointing out to all of us.  Is that in a few years your wife will be just like most american women.  However, thanks to her age.  She will in fact NOT become so Americanized as everyone thinks.  

Unless, she's been watching too much American TV.

However, I think your children will fall in to the rut.  That all american children fall into - marketers will capture their attention with a bombardment of advertisements on what kind of a person they need to be.
-----
My guess during the soviet times, you wife life.  Didn't revolve around the capitalist idealogy.  (Ask her, did she stand in long lines to buy consumer products?)... So do we at times stand in lines, but our lines don't stretch around the block.

Your wife,up to 10 years ago has been a vaccum.. A time warp of sorts.
---
I think in the late 60's & 70's when there was a generation gap...that's when a social change occured. (Wasn't this when the Vietnam War was going on and young men were being sent overseas.  And women, filled ranks for jobs..Sort of like their Mothers in WWII.

Better take a closer look at what's happening in Eastern Europe.  Men are supposibly in short supply and women are now filling their job ranks.  What is happening in EE is darn near what happened in our 60/70's.

Ten years of instant equality.  Have you interviewed a woman and she has said to you.  She wants to work and doesn't want to be a house wife?  Guess what, she has just told you....  Americanization INDEPENDENCE, has set in, she wants to be in control.

Why are these Eastern European men all upset ?  Because, they're being rather quickly Americanized into the capitalistical mindset.  And they're still living in the 50's.

So with all that said, what kind of children are you going to raise?  Will they be just like your wife ?

I seriously doubt it.  They're going to be just like an American person.  They will be Americanized in a capitalistical society.  Start today... Turn off the TV.

LIKE most Russians in the past.  Did not own a TV or a radio, but relied upon the printed word for information.

The less garbage in, the less garbage out.
When you give someone a small freedom they savor it, when you give them a whole lot they get spoiled rotten and turn into awful people...

What's the one thing you liked about going to Eastern Europe?  My impression was that people were still so timid.

They are not LOUD Americans.  Like they say, "You Americans are so Spoiled".