A long time regular poster to the board here who does not want to be identified has asked me to warn any and all about the Athena Agency. Evidently they have been, and are scamming him. E-mail me privately for details of the scam (without mentioning the poster) for any non-believers.

Patrick don't know how you will feel about this? The poster has been scammed but does not want to publish his name. He has gone into some details. I guess he could always write you privately for you to verify and still be able to keep his identity un-known.

... in response to Re: word of caution - Oh, No, I'll have ..., posted by JohnL on Jun 22, 2002

Good day mate,

 If I, or any man, paid an agency to deliver flowers and chocolate and they never arrived, the lady never received them, I would want to know why they were not delivered! You electing not to ask question, getting an explanation is totally your choice. Are you not curious as to what happened? If you were scammed by the agency, why would you not want to tell others?  Since the creation of this board, and a few others, scam agencies once identified have had a short life span. True many only change names, but the reporting of scam agencies on the whole has benefited and helped a lot of guys.

The gentleman who was recently scammed in Kiev is p!ssed! He wants to report how he was scammed and who he was scammed by. This gentleman is a long time poster to the P-L board. You, and most everyone here, has read his post's. After meeting who he thought might be his future dreambride he told her of the Planet Love board. Maybe not such a wise move but it happened. Not being 100% sure that this woman will be his future wife, and as he is making another trip, wisely he will meet a few other ladies. He cannot openly report the scam in his name. He has since sent Patrick an e-mail identifying himself and with a brief explanation, so Patrick knows who he is and knows him to be a reliable P-L poster.

You, and others, decide not to report a scam, he, and others, do decide to report being scammed. Yes John, you are correct, I will jump at every opportunity to report ANY scam agency. I will jump at the opportunity to report any "known" scam woman.**   When one can sit on top of the mountain knowing he has NEVER scammed one client and never will, having no skeletons in my closet, I have no problem in reporting any scam agency.

 I have addressed some of your statements above now I would like to address a few of your other statements more directly.

"And if that's not enough, I read in a later post, "But we can do it .... send flowers, buy airline tickets etc etc" something like that anyhow. Imagine, that if someone got on this board and made a post, 'Oh, warning ... I sent money to Jack's agency, they didn't deliver the flowers, they are a Scam' and this happened all because you unknowingly overlooked an email request or something simple and stupid. Your reaction would be so explosive in defence, as LP would have graphically put it, 'the people would be screamin and shoutin, bullets flyin, and when the dust had settled no one would no who had won and who was left standing' and of course everyone else would be a @.... and a liar. You see Mate, none of us are perfect, and as a result, we who live in glass houses watch very carefully where we chuck our stones (or should) just in case we foul up."

Mate, you are probably assuming that I (Firstdream) was offering to send flowers or buy airline tickets for this lady, right?  WRONG mate! One shouldn't assume everything!   I recommended to this man, Johnnydudeman, the name and agency of another reputable marriage agency in Odessa. Sure I could have done it, I deliver flowers every week in Odessa, but I also use and recommend other, what I consider honest and ethical agenies thru out the FSU. See Mate, when I can, I do not mind sending business to the few foreign honest agencies. It is my small way of trying to help these other honest agencies to stay in business. My business is booming, this $50 (or whatever the total might be) would help another honest agency a lot more than I need the $50. I will guarantee him that it will be done and professionally, but it may be by another agency I deem as reliable and honest. Gee, I hope I didn't burst your bubble with this news!

Mate John, I have repeated many times about the glass house I live in. Do you think I could have offered my services to over two thousand men and run a scam operation?  @ss holes and competitors take there best cheap shots at me John, and my glass house still stands, un-shatteresd.  When one lives in a glass house one had better be honest and reliable. My address, name, phone number and e-mail is published to the world, I hide nothing. John L, you cannot tell me anything I don't already know about living in a glass house.

To further quote you...."I believe our actions speak louder than words. Your humility is staggeringly amazing. You mentioned a few weeks ago, "I am the best in the world at this... " or something like "I am in the top five in the world at this game ...." Geee ...... thats an awesome call from oneself."

John, one had sure better have a lot of confidence in one's ability to make such a claim, don't you think?  I am not the biggest, never will be, do not want to be, but I am, or close to, the best.

Everyday of the week John I average 5 guys in some part of the FSU. Twice a year I sponsor a group tour, once in the spring, once in the fall. Everyday it seems I get another letter, e-mail or phone call from some guy thanking me for my part in helping him not to get scammed or helping him to have such a productive trip. Almost every month now I have two or three former clients getting married and with the current group of guys engaged of completing there K-1's, I suspect that average will go up.

Every week it seems I get a call from some guy who just realized he is being scammed or suspects it and he is only days away from his trip, what can I do for him? And with each of these calls, once I am convinced the guy is sincere, we go into action. Seven weeks ago I get a call from this one guy, a school teacher from New Jersey, who is going to Odessa and can I help him get a flat. In the process I ask a lot of questions, do not like the answers I hear and tell the guy I think he is being scammed. Well, that was the last I heard of this guy, until three weeks ago, three days before he is to leave for Odessa. He writes that he was scammed, what should he do?  I told him he should forget this trip, to start over, work hard, find several ladies that he has interest in and that they have interest in him and then go on his trip. He said as a school teacher he really only had the summer off and he really needed a vacation and already had the tickets, could I please help him. I agreed to help.  Here is a copy of the e-mail I received from him two days ago,......

Dear Jack,

Just wanted to say "THANK YOU"...I had a GREAT time. Your responsiveness to my last minute needs really saved the day, and made my trip an unforgettably pleasurable experience. And believe it or not, sixteen days in Odessa wasn't enough for me! I like to take my time in getting to know a lady, and there just wasn't enough time to do that with the seventeen women I met--only with two of them.

My interpreter, Anna, was terrific--she was much more than just my interpreter, as I'm sure you are aware--she was also my personal agent, social director, dating "coach", disco buddy and even more.

You also have a wonderful mother-in-law, Valentina, and sister-in-law, Nasta. Anna and I had occasion to go to Valentina's place one afternoon to search her database, and were treated to champagne and caviar while looking through your wedding album! She is a first class lady and excellent businesswoman.

..........

And JohnL, I get these type of letters every month and am d@mn proud of it. It is these type of letters, it is these type of feelings I get, that keeps me pumped and going.

I think very few men in the world see what I see everyday with regards to the pursuit for a Russian bride. EVERY day I receive one or two reports on scam women, and I do mean everyday!  I have probably some 20 to 30 new scam ladies I need to add to my website now, just haven't had the time. I now have a list of almost 300 women who I have single reports on as scammers. I suspect many of these 300 are scammers but without the second needed, required report, I cannot post as known** scammer. I have probably 200 new good ladies to add to our website, again, not enough time in the day.

I know and will be the first to admit that I have gotten a somewhat cocky attitude over the last two years. When you are good and you know it, it is reflected in your attitude. I can usually spot a scammer a mile away. When a man will tell me a few things about his relationship and his concerns, I can usually tell him if I think he is being scammed. Am I always right, no I am not, but I think I am about 95% accurate.  In addition many of the scam agencies hate me because I have had an impact on them in some way or another. Here on Planet Love you guys only see a small percentage of what I see and do. Over 90% of my clients have no idea about Planet Love or the other discussion groups. When I tell these guys they are dealing with a scam agency and they stop dealing with the scam agency, do you think that scam agency is happy with me? I guarantee you they are not. I do not mind going toe to toe with @ss holes either, and so you see these things and maybe you don't like them about me. I am outspoken, I know it. I love what I am doing. What was once something I could spend two hours a day with is now something that is taking 12 to 14 hours a day and I still can't stay caught up. I am making mistakes now due to the volume of business, but they are not scams, they are mistakes. Am I perfect, no I am not. But I do think I am the best in the world at what I do and I have many clients who will agree. And there are many people, probably like yourself and of course like the luzzer Shame from the Russian Women Never Accept Tackless Twits board who despise me. I am either liked or hated, very little middle of the road with me, and guess what JohnL, that is ok with me because like I said, I still love what I do every day. I do live in a glass house, the Internet is very big and un-forgiving, there is no way that my actions are going to please everyone and I know when I tell 55 year old men who write me and ask for my help in trying to meet a 22 year old hottie that I think he is sick, of course they are offended, I don't care! Nobody is forced to do business with me. If they want the best, they come to me. If they do not like my attitude or want second best, they will go elsewhere. I am happy with my morals and my standards. They are not to please you, they are to please me.

Good day mate!

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Athena agency is not a scam!  At least not in Sevastopol.  I do not know about Odessa but the agency in Sevastopol is the best agency I have ever dealt with and I recommend them highly.  I did not find my fiance from that agency but before I met my fiance I had great results from Aethena agency in Sevastopol and I recommend them highly as one of the few honest and reasonable agencies.  This guy whose flowers weren't delivered should follow up with the Athena agency in Odessa.

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Have him re-register with another profile, now he can be a split personality.

... in response to Re: word of caution, posted by Patrick on Jun 21, 2002

Patrick, he is not so anonymous, like you and I, he post his real name, his profile indicates where he lives.

He wrote me that a lady he is courting READS this board!  (no offense, but can you say not so smart!)  So he is afraid she will see what he has written and it would not be so easy for him to explain this as well as future plans he may have.

I know your guidelines and was concerned about posting as such. The only thing to do is so have him write you directly. You will know who he is and will probably have no problem with his story, but I think he messed up by telling a lady he has been seeing about Planet Love and now she reads it on ocassion. In his current position I can see where he had best not be saying a whole lot that can directly tie him into various details of his pursuit for a Russian bride.

If I may inject something here for other guys. Sometimes it may not be so wise to tell ladies who you are corresponding with about Planet Love. Think about it!

... in response to Re: Re: word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

How is the fact that an agency scammed him a problem that needs to be kept anonymous?

Is it that he doesn't want his "first" lady to know that he sent flowers to a "second" lady?

... in response to Re: I'm confused, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned, but why can't men be honest with the women they are writing to?  I guess it goes both ways, the women seem to do the same thing, and maybe it is best that neither side knows what the other is doing, but it seems like it's a bad start to a relationship to be doing this to each other.

... in response to Honesty, posted by Jeff on Jun 22, 2002

Honesty is very important but volunteering to an FSUW the existence of this board would be an act of stupidity.

Not telling about this board would not be lying about anything.

The definition of a lie is "an intentionally false statement."

Regards.