Arm chair MOB seekers and professional daters

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: not different, posted by Oscar on Jun 24, 2002

I remember years ago reading a story (can't remember the name of it now) but one of the characters was from India, and he was married to a woman that had been arranged by his parents.

He said to someone in the story:

"In America, you fall in love and then get married... In India, we get married, and then learn to love..."

Not that I would want an arranged marriage!

But I never forgot that line... there is a grain of truth there, somewhere...

[RW]

... in response to Re: Re: not different, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

Mark,

Yes, there is truth in his words. There is also another great saying "love is not when you look at each other all the time, but when both of you look in the same direction". So to paraphrase it, when both of you look in the same direction you do learn to love.

All the best to you,

RW

PS I read another story about Indian woman who had a big struggle with that type of arrangement here in USA.
Did not sound like such a great arrangement to me. She was very unhappy.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

I would like to think that I had a choice in my marriage...

Although, I didn't have a choice in my Divorce... so maybe we don't always get what we want, eh?

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Re: not different, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

And much of the world still believe in and do "arranged" marriages..

Yes, if you look at the concept of love as being an action, something we do, not just feel, it helps with these types of marriages especially..  It's GREAT to have those infatuaion feelings BUT, they will always wear off.  If at the time they do, you do not have the respect, friendship, compatability etc.. that is when it goes doen the tubes.  Most marriages fail in the first 3 years for exactly this reason, the "infatuation" wears off and the people think they have fallen out of love and think they must go out and get that feeling with someone else.
When I say it always "wears off", that doesn't mean that it cannot be recaptured at times.  That is where the work comes into play..

Just my 2 cents.

[yoe]

... in response to Re: Re: not different, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

SPECIAL!
There are a little more pragmatic and have a different capacity for loving someone. Maybe that is what the whole intrigue is with these women-I cannot speak for other cultures.
AW do not have this-they still want that knight in shining armor-they are not willing to grow with someone-just change them.
I do know (I think I know) one thing about my wife. Regardless of how much she despises me at times-she knows we are together and that there will be difficult times-especially with me. As I have said before-my wife has staying power. She is not going to bolt if things get hairy. And for a guy like me-that is a necessity. I think AW are great for the average guy who does the 9-5. pays his bills on time, drives the All Amreican car and you can pin point his whereabouts for the next 5 years.
But for guys like me...........I need someone with vision!
x-ray vision at that.
Again my take
Joe

[Jack]

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002


"" Oh yes, there is a magic "chemistry" feeling, but many forget that there are many other qualities you at least need to KNOW about your future partner before you make such a serious commitment.

There might be a lot said in defense of proposing after couple days, but that is still pure gambling on both sides... What are the odds? ""

In my opinion only, I would say the odds are not very good at all. The odds of a happy, successful marriage would not be as high as those of men who have been able to meet several Russian ladies.

Maybe more lust, than love....Maybe I cannot find such a woman like her in America and I should act now, not take the chance someone get's her before I do....Maybe it's because the trips can be expensive and I don't want to keep looking. The 6-month, or 1 year, between visits can be very lonely...... Maybe there are many good reasons why a guy will marry the first or second Russian woman he meets, one such reason being maybe they are both truely in love.

I do not know of one man who took his time, meet several ladies and in the process truely learned something about Russian women, there culture and there way of thinking, who was ever scammed by the woman he chose.

It seems to me that of the men I know who took there time, met several ladies, they have a much higher percentage rate of being and staying happily married than those guys I know who only met one or two ladies.

Percentages is all I am talking about here, not people, only percentages, only numbers. Numbers and percentages generally do not lie (unless your a book-keeper for Arthur Anderson). Numbers do not have hearts or feelings, people do and as such, some people (a much smaller percentage) will choose wisely even if only meeting one or two Russian ladies.

[yoe]

... in response to not different, posted by Jack on Jun 24, 2002

that would be the Joe Factor..........
38 years old, never married, has dated 'enough' women to be considered a womanizer. Has been in 7 serious relationships (1-3 years) and a few 3-6 months and numerous 2-3 hours.
And yet, the moment by the third day with my wife, I 'believed' she was the one.
I cannot explain all of the 'odd' coinicidences that kept me going. I cannot explain that the 2 very pretty girls in the US that stayed with me (seperately of course) met with me daily (seperately again) never meant anything.
I cannot give you and 'REASON'.
In my life I usually know at first glance if something is for me or not. I know what I like. Yes I have met 'nice' girls that would have been wonderful wives-so someone else. But the 'chemistry' was not there.
So, even though I agree with you, I have dated enough women to know that I do not need to date 2-100 more RW to know if if love my wife.
Like the ole saying goes, "times with weed and no money will get you through better than times with money and no weed?" Oh wait that is a different story-you get the picture though.
If you do not have the chemistry all the blondes in Siberia won't cure the ill.
Just my personal experience.
Joe

[Patrick]

... in response to what about the J factor..., posted by yoe on Jun 24, 2002

Jack had a good point about men who feel pressure to propose.  Spending lots of money and investing the time, emotional energy and effort to get there, plus the fear that if they don't move ahead quickly, someone else will, can put a lot of pressure on men.

Then there's a few men who suffer the "B" (babe) factor.  Some guys are on a mission to marry the trophy wife they couldn't get here in the US and doggedly pursue the sexiest women doing whatever it takes to get them.  Throwing lots of money around and quick proposals before they get snatched up by someone else.  These are the men at greatest risk IMHO and we see a few of them on this board from time to time.  Wasn't there a fifty-somthing year old guy who was searching for a wife around 19 just a while back and complaining about an agency who didn't meet his expectations?  They apparently weren't able to supply enough women in this category who were truely interested in him.  I wonder why?

There's a lot more to a woman and a relationship than looks.  Looks fade and the effect they have on a man fade even quicker.  If she's not beautiful on the inside, no amount of sexiness is going to compensate.

[yoe]

... in response to The "P" and "B" fact..., posted by Patrick on Jun 24, 2002

What this whole thing boils down to is like all things in life-what is the intent.
I intended to go meet some girl that I enjoyed talking to and have a cool vacation. Never was the love word mentioned in 6 months. Never money mentioned.
I must admit though-I was paying an agency for all of my emails. And after my trip and phone call expense (.85) back then. I was down a little cash. It would have been hard to just walk away.
I have no doubt that I was lucky and would not recomend my way to anybody. But, I am here and my situation is better than any of my friends and/or relatives. All of my family thinks she is the cat's meow.
But, I did not go after a 24 year old-I joke about going back and trading her in for a new model though!
I just know that it is C   R   A   Z   Y!
I do not have any answers, just my experiences. One thing that you and Jack have is an agency point of view and can see many things that I do not. But I have met some guys that went over and I know they are divorced now-they got their Golden trophy. But I think that is one of those cholcolate bunnies wrapped in Gold alumanum. I hate to see what happens when things heat up.
Hey sometimes you win, sometimes you loooooooooose. Goodtime Charlie's got the blues!
Joe

[MarkInTx]

... in response to The "P" and "B" fact..., posted by Patrick on Jun 24, 2002

asd

[yoe]

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

n.t

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Arm chair MOB seekers and professional d..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

Wow... Sounds like you are quite experienced...

A couple of follow up questions? (And a comment)

One: You've met many women, and have not yet found the right one... but you must have found several that you could have asked... but didn't... So how are you different from the jaded and professional women Daters? (that is an honest question... not trying to zing you...)

Two: How did you meet all of these women?

And the comment: I think that Patrick was simply relating percentages...

You met...  what, three men in Moscow? ... a few in Kiev? Even looking at it expansively... how many American men have you really seen in your travels? 100? 200? Compare that to how many addresses are sold by just the big three agencies alone, and I think you can see Patrick's point.

(BTW, I was in Kiev for a week, and I didn't see many Americans. Maybe it was because I wasn't staying at the Marriott? The couple I actually met were Ex-Pats or Military. The only MOBers I met were at the airport, but that's a lot more common, I think... we all have to fly home, and there aren't that many flights in and out of Kiev in a day...)

[johnnydudeman]

... in response to Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profession..., posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

Yes, Mark, I have had many experiences (many good and some bad), but I don't claim to be so experienced that I can't learn from others.  That's why I read this board and sometimes it has some good and useful information.

You ask how did I meet these women?  I met some through introduction agencies where the meetings were arranged.  I met some by requesting their information from agencies and by making the meeting arrangements on my own.  And I met many women on my own by just saying "hello" on the street or in a cafe or in a club.  R/U is no different...its the same way men meet women anywhere in the world.  But I have never been on a "tour" or a "social" (not that there's anything wrong with that).  And, no, I am not yet jaded (although I am somewhat more disillusioned and a little wiser now than I was when I began).  I continue my search with skepticism and confidence that I will find what I am looking for.  The difference between you and I is that I did not have sex with the first girl I met in person after just some emails and phone calls.  And I would not ask a girl to marry me under those circumstances.  "That just don't seem right."  

I have met many great girls and I am holding out for the right one...and I am definitely not willing to settle.  I have even met one or two who could be the right one and I'll be back to re-visit before just jumping in.  I hope no man who goes there settles so quickly.  I'll take my time and do this right and I'll find the right girl for me.  I mean, how crazy is it to go through the great effort and expense just to settle for the first girl you meet?  Its like the saying, "you get what you settle for."  I have a friend here in my city (and I think you know who you are) who did that and he's happy, but also apprehensive as to whether he rushed in too quickly.  And now he says "johnnydudeman" I've got to admnit...you're doing it right.  So, we all make our own choices and we must live with them.

And yes, I also agree that Patrick is right about "armchair MOB seekers."  I think I even mentioned that in my post.  Its true and undeniable that there are RELATIVELY few men actually taking the trip in proportion to the "wannabe" men who just seek addresses and just write emails and correspondence and I agreed with him in this assessment.  However, to say that many of the women on these websites who are "seeking an American man for a relationship which will lead to marriage" have never met American men doesn't jibe with my experience.  Yes, I did meet women who had never met American men and I also saw many American men over there and I also saw many professional daters.  And I think they often found each other.  That is my experience and I'm not saying I am "oh so experienced."  Come on Mark, you really believe that a woman who is attractive and savvy enough to get her picture on the internet is not going to meet some American men?  And do you really believe YOUR Kherson girl hasn't met a few American men?

You mentioned the Marriott.  You should check out the Marriott Avrora in Moscow.  Its kind of nice.  They offer butlers who can help out with all kinds of things.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profes..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

Dude,
I agree with most of what you posted here.  However, you need to open your mind up for all the exceptions. I went over to meet one girl that I had gotten to know through many months of phone conversations.  Neither of us were shopping for a spouse even though we "used" an agency.  After another trip, I helped her get a visa to spend time together here in America with me without any proposal of marriage.  While she was here, we took the plunge.  That was three years ago and we couldn't be happier.
Just as a side note, I did go on a few dates with other RW while on my first trip.  I did this on the very good advice from the agency.  These dates verified to me that my feelings for my wife were real and not just a "Russian thang".  She on the other hand had met many AM during the 4 year association with the agency.  She had at least 4 "proposals" from AM.  She usually deflected the romantic advances of the AM and converted them into friends. She even helped a few to find "good women" to marry in her city.
BTW, we stayed at the Marriott when it first opened and were impressed with it.
KenC

[KenC]

... in response to there are no rules, posted by KenC on Jun 24, 2002

n/t