thoughts to consider

[KenC]

Mike's post below under visa scams makes some good points that you guys need to consider.  There are tons of available good women in Russia that will have nothing to do with agencies.  I would think that some of the best women would not submit themselves to the degradation that comes along with participating with an agency.  Before you guys jump on me for that comment, think for a moment about what a woman has to endure to be active with an agency.
The woman has to fill out her profile, listing her weight height and sometimes even measurements.  (Sounds a little like a meat market, huh?)  She then has to define who she is and what she wants in a man.  This of course must be accomplished in 2 or 3 lines.  Again, think about that for a moment.  How many of us guys could do that in a few lines?  She has to battle the stigma associated with being an "agency girl."  How do you think the Russian guys treat women that they know are trying to bail out of Russia?  Or how do you think an agency girl might be treated by anyone that loves Russia in general?  For those of you who may not know, there are many Russians who fall into this category.
Once the woman gets past the peer pressure, she has to deal with any yahoo that may get the urge and the nerve to contact her.  The American men that might contact her could be a man 38 years her senior, an uptight snobby Bostonian (that insists she pay her own airfare and sign a prenupt) or a pig farmer from Iowa.  And those examples do not include the perverts or the guys that never seriously consider actually going to see her.  Add to this list the number of arrogant American men that know they are doing her a huge favor in considering that they may be willing to save her from her desperation.  Of course many here do not take this into consideration.  They just wonder if she ever went bowling or not.
So it is no wonder that many fine women will not participate with an agency.  With all the claims of scamming agencies, it still has to be the easiest and most proficient way to search for a woman.  But what are the alternatives?  Ads have been suggested here and I see a lot of merit in that notion.  The stigma with answering an ad is much less than dealing with an agency.  Therefore you may attract women from an ad that would not be willing to go the agency route.  Just going there and hanging out, as Mike suggests, just doesn't sound practical to me.  Any other suggestions?
KenC

[Mike]

... in response to thoughts to consider, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002

I usually speak from how I see the world (or my wifes) and when I went to Moscow I was not looking for a wife. Sure the thought of meeting a beauty there was on my mind but I was not on a mission,or maybe I'm always on a mission and just got use to it??? I'm no player but I've always found it easy to talk to strangers, more so in a different country (don't know why though). I would see a girl I thought was pretty and ask for help and little things like that and just found ways to keep a conversation going until I could get a feeling (or what ever it is) if this was going to lead me to a date. I ended up being very busy (not like I'm a hussy) with dating girls. My favorite was asking for directions and if they speak english. Typically it was easy to drag this out because I too would be asked questions sense I'm from America. One girl I dated I met by mistake. I thought I had lost my passport and was in panic at the bank where I needed it. A lady customer told me she would help me report it to the police and we ended up spending hours doing that, and then dating.( my wallet was at the apartment where I was sure it wasn't) I lied to her so I wouldn't look stupid and said the police found it. LOL
I agree with Ken on the advertising idea that sounds good, but scammers can read too so ya gotta be on your toes there too. I'm just saying I'm far from being a prince but met many nice ladies in the 3 weeks I spent in Moscow and made many many friends, and if you got friends in Moscow they also have friends! So even if you aren't able to find your wife on your first trip you'll deffenitly be farther ahead in the game. Side note I spent less on a 3 week vacation there then I would have spent on a one week vacation to disney world!
Mike

[KenC]

... in response to Maybe it's just my way of doing things., posted by Mike on Apr 22, 2002

n/t

[Mike]

... in response to You mean to say Moscow isn't Disney Worl..., posted by KenC on Apr 22, 2002

n/t

[MarkInTx]

... in response to thoughts to consider, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002


Placing an ad in a local newspaper seems to be the only avenue that has ever resulted in anything at all meaningful...

I've never done a tour, so I can't relate to the results there... though my instincts tell me its not such a good idea.

Going there and "hanging out" seems impractical for most people.

I'm not much of a "pick-up" kinda guy. I would have trouble finding, and picking up an American Woman who was a stranger I just met on the street... throw me into another country where I didn't speak the language... I think it's a really bad scnenario for success.

But the personal ad has done well for me. The last one I simply posted my email address, and only posted it in English, but I did post a picture. So, the only people who responded were women who had access to a computer and who could at least read some English.

I know this eliminated a lot of women... but I felt that these were two very basic requirements, so... why not use it as a screener?

It worked fairly well for me...

FWIW

[bub]

... in response to My Limited Experience, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 21, 2002

where did you run your personal ad???
thanks

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: My Limited Experience, posted by bub on Apr 23, 2002


Kiev and Odessa Newspapers...

But it has apparently been picked up and reproduced elsewhere...

[Mike]

... in response to My Limited Experience, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 21, 2002

I can understand the thoughts behind your opinion about being tossed into another country and trying to do something that you have a hard time doing here, but I have been all over the world and based on this ( and I can't put my finger on it) it seems sooo much easer to talk to girls in another country then it is here, at least it always has been for me. Typically the first thing I do is find out if they speak English, if I'm dead set on this girl and she doesn't speak English I break out the dictionary and use the eye contact and smiles. I've usually been able to find English speakers everywhere I've been though. I do know we Americans are interesting to them as they would be to us if one approached you here. Most times they want to talk and ask questions because they are curiouse creatures. The point is I would feel compelled to agree with you had I not been to so many other countries and seen how it was so much easier for me there then in the States to meet and talk to ladies.
Mike

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: My Limited Experience, posted by Mike on Apr 22, 2002


I'm not saying it can't be done...

I'm just saying that I couldn't do it...

[KenC]

... in response to My Limited Experience, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 21, 2002

Mark,
Please email me.  Lena has a friend back home and-----
KenC

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Mark, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002


Friends of sexy Russian women who are already over here and married to decent American men... is also a great source for leads...

Emailing you now...

[RickM]

... in response to thoughts to consider, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002

You couldn't be relating to mdante99 could you ))
It's been quiet w/out him around...
Good topic Ken but the question that comes to mind with me is when AM think about European/RW woman we think about great family traditions and a lady that'll be content with a man even if he is her seinhor in some years.
I wonder what the RW think and discuss when they think about AM (Better life and $$$)
Keeping in mind most of these ladies don't own a pc mind alone even know how to use one or type in a language other than their own...
What other options do they have other than an agency to teach them (the ropes) how to become exposed to the outter world.I can tell you that my wife had a friend that had access to the pc where she worked and once the wife found out about what the agency was all about ($$$),she didn't want anything to do with the agency.We were lucky,she had access to a pc and a fiend that spoke very good english to help her with the letter-writing...
Aside from a small chance of having a friend abroad already,I don't know of any other way a lady could meet a man across this big world...

[Oscar]

... in response to thoughts to consider, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002

BINGO!  Yep, that is how my girl found me, she answered my ad.  She had never written to another man before from an ad, nor had she ever been to an agency and had no desire to go to one.  She said she saw and liked my photo, what I had to say and had a strong feeling she should write to me, so she did.  Even when she went to give her photo to the interpreter and the interpreter told her that if she didn't get to meet me, would she like to maybe be in the agency there, she said no, she had no interest in being in an agency, she just wanted to meet me!  I feel pretty lucky in this regard.  I am sure there are a lot of good women in agencies but I am glad I found (or I should say she found me!) that my girl wasn't involved in one...

[Mike]

... in response to Re: thoughts to consider, posted by Oscar on Apr 21, 2002

Just a hunch here but I would think a lady that gets married through an agency would feel ashaimed to admit it ?? I know I would feel embarrassed if I said I met my wife that way. That's just me, and what really matters is the end results I guess.
Mike

[tim360z]

... in response to thoughts to consider, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002

...and also varying agencies will "help" her and give her very good "advices" and suggest what things for her to say.  Many girls will listen,  because the agency has experience with these things.  And then,  every time some guy writes her--- shes gotta trundle on down to the agency and read and reply as the letters keep comin'.  And they get all kindsa letters from all kindsa guys out there in the virtual world.  And since so very few marry a foreign man...it can be a path filled with disappointment for the girl.  Like a total waste of time.

Now,  I do kinda agree with Mike. On "hangin out".  I would think if a guy was pretty savy and had some decent mid-level Russian skills and an understanding of the culture and people....he would probably do OK.  Now,  before going further it would also be necessary to have some good skills with women too...lets not leave that out.  If you're boring in to women in Peoria---you're going to be boring in Moscow.  BTW,  a friend (married) in Moscow tells me that most educated people in Moscow know some English and many especially in her field (finance) are fluent in English.  So,  put a little checklist together and improve on your weaknesses.  Like if you have no or poor Russian...work on it.  If your women skills are poor...improve them.  If your understanding of the culture is poor...educate yourself.  It might be a 6 month or 1 year self-improvment project...but its doable.  If you know your weakness--- then you can improve upon that weakness and make it a strenght.  

You can get some good advice from various members of this board when it comes to language and culture and travel---but when it comes to women skills...you're on your own.  Best to get away from the computer and spend some time with some, yeah even AW's.