With KenMan's written e-mail permission to me, I will share on the P-L board what I have been able to gather from looking and listening to both sides of his story.

Without doubt the biggest problem today facing those in pursuit of a Russian bride is the tremendous amount of scam and scamming that is involved. Even with the amount of scamming we report and discuss on P-L, what we see and discuss is still only the tip of the iceberg. It is a big business now in Russia and Ukraine. I will admit the problem appears larger in Ukraine than in Russia and that is largely due to there being many more agencies in Ukraine than in Russia. However I will also say, in my opinion based on what I saw, what I see, what I experienced and what I hear from my clients, there is a much higher level of organized prostitution in Russia.

Is there too much "Paranoia" on this board?
I don't think so. Some guys will get paranoid. I think we have seen a few guys reporting on this subject over the last two days that I would certaintly put into this paranoia catagory. I think ALL men involved in this pursuit must be on alert to the potential for scam and to factor in the high percentage of scamming that goes on. Education is this man's greatest tool.

Another big problem is dis-information. Bad information, corrupt information, mis-leading information. Again, education is your biggest asset as you proceed. When many of you see something written that you know is incorrect, you will try to correct the statement. Disagreement errupts and this is often how many of our flame wars
start. I think the biggest problem that I had (I think Dan also) with Max, later known as jj, was the  large amount of bad information that he was putting out about 18 months ago. This lead to many of our conflicts.

Regarding dis-information, I am quite tired of being called Barry, Fred, yoe, daNde, James and as of yesterday, Richard.
I would have thought that having several people to meet Barry and Fred at the recent get together would have been enough to prove to the nut case that I am not those two people. Now he ( the nut case) is claiming that Richard is really me. It is getting very frustrating to read the new, different alligations against me everyday from nut case. There was no doubt in HIS mind that I was Barry. He claimed it here and on several other boards for four months now that Barry is really me. He doesn't need proof, he just has to think this to proclaim this. No doubt in HIS mind that I was Fred. No doubt in HIS mind that I was James. In the e-mail he sent me yesterday he knows that I am really Richard because Barry and Fred are the same person and I (Richard) just got caught. I am not responsiable for what Barry or Richard or Fred writes. They can tell true stories or lies, they can write what they want. What they write should have no reflection on me.

Patrick just as you asked KenMan proof for his allegiations, could it not be possiable to ask the same of other posters who make ludicrous claims? Claims that a person KNOWS I am really BarryM and then when we can prove otherwise it it is not enough. "Oh, yea, well you come by the Police department and prove it and then I will stop saying you are BarryM". Current nut case says that my name is really not Jack Bragg. Can we ask him to please provide proof of this claim Patrick? My drivers license, my passport, say Jack Bragg. Wouldn't that be illegal to have a passport in a false name?  What really hurts is that current nut case says that I am not even a Texan!

Alligations after alligations Patrick. The man who has used 50 different names to slander me just continous.

... in response to Re: Read my link just below, but here's ..., posted by Quasimoto on Apr 11, 2002

the situtation is horrific.  A word I do not use lightly.  It is incredible.  And sad.  Too sad for words.  There are so many gangs,  Ukrainian,  Russian,  Armenian etc.  I beleive the Armenians are the worst of the bunch.  But,  there are people who aid them in luring in the girls.  14 is now the prime age.  The younger the better.  And,  for me,  when some guy on this board starts whining about being scammed for a couple hundred----I shake my head.  There, many are scammed for life...not for a days pay.

... in response to Different type men., posted by Jack on Apr 10, 2002

I have a son in the Army. he just went to Korea about 4 weeks ago. He called me from Korea on sunday night this past week. He know's that I have been looking for a Russian wife.  I ask him what he had been doing on his free time there.  He told me he went to a small town outside the camp  on saturday night with some of the other guys  in the Army there.  He said there was a lot of prostitution going on outside the camp. I told him he needs to be careful with these korean women. He then told me that they were not korean, they were Russian. I did not understand this and ask him how he knew they were russian. He said that men would come up to them and ask them if they wanted to spend time with a pretty Russian girl.  He then told me there were hundrends of them there.

 Now , I don't know how they got there in Korea, but it is very sad for me to think that these women have nothing else that they could do in life.  He seen a few of them and said that they were very young and pretty.  He is 26 and said that they looked like 18 , 19, 20 year old girls.

My Questions is, Is there a market of some type that sents these girls to places to do this? Do they really want to do this or being forced into it?

... in response to Re: Different type men., posted by terry on Apr 11, 2002

Terry,

You also should remember that many Americans call "Russian" ANYTHING East European. I am not saying that these were not Russian girls, but they could have been from Russia, Ukraine, Belorussia, Kazahstan, Moldova, Check Republick, Poland, Baltics, etc.

Unfortunately, I still hear it all the time - "Oh, my girlfriend is from Russia...." "which part of Russia?" - Georgia"....

On the other note, most of the cases I heard of were the stories of ads offering jobs in foreign countries as nannies, dancers, hostesses which later turned out to be just prostitution. Some of the situations are very ugly.
And as in any country - some girls are doing it volunteerily and some end up in the very bad situations which are difficult to get out.

Russian Wife

... in response to Re: Different type men., posted by terry on Apr 11, 2002

A friend and co-worker of mine went on a business trip to Korea recently.  The Korean engineers he was working with took him out for a night on the town and apparently "bought" him two prostitutes (which he decined).  They were both from Eastern Europe.  I have no idea how they get there though.

... in response to Re: Different type men., posted by terry on Apr 11, 2002

bigger and is growing.  It is more like sex-slave prostitution and run by many EE gangs.  The girls are kidnapped and sold.  Both interpol and the UN have been trying to stop the practice.  It is worldwide in scope.  And over 100K young girls have disappeared into this web.  They are shipped everywhere,  even to the USA.  But mainly to western europe,  Israel,  Turkey and the far east.  You can go to the UN webpage and read it yourself.  Its also been covered by 60 Minutes.  Haifa,  an Israeli port city has an estimated 5000,  thats the police cheif's guess.

... in response to Re: Re: Different type men., posted by Oscar on Apr 11, 2002

I'm writing to a lady that worked as a dancer in Korea. From what she says she was a lucky one that found legitimate work. But some of her colleagues weren't so lucky. She's explained a few things about what business there was like. She said she was continuely harrassed by men that thought she either was a prostitute or that wanted to offered her a "better job" with big money. She got out and is back home in Russia. Many don't get away.

... in response to Different type men., posted by Jack on Apr 10, 2002

You are probably right, Jack, that prostitution is highly organized in Russia. But I wish to draw your attention to the fact that 99.5% of prostitutes in Moscow are Ukranians. Nothing against Ukranian girls, just the facts. I'm sure you are aware of it.

Regards,

Tootsie