Do I need an Attorney for paperwork???

[John K]

... in response to Re: Britney Spears..., posted by Rags on Mar 24, 2002

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[LP]

... in response to Do I need an Attorney for paperwork???, posted by Oscar on Mar 23, 2002

...One trip = K1?

lol, the chemistry prosecution rests.

I give up, one can't reason with drunken men. I could make the comment that you're more likely to need a divorce attorney, but it would just bounce off your "sureness". God, there at times I dearly wished I'd been born female, I would love to possess this kind of power.

Just do the paperwork yourself, it isn't as daunting as it seems. Work extra hard at developing this deal because the time until her arrival will pass quicker than you think. Having to cancel a K1 and begin again is emotionaly difficult. If you're gonna jump in this quickly, be prepared to face that possibility.

Hey, you said any and all input. Good luck to you.

[Mike]

... in response to Yikes...., posted by LP on Mar 23, 2002

Getting her here yourself is the easy part. Keeping her here with you, well only God knows how that will turn out. I still say it's best to check into all the ways you can protect your assets before marriage. The only way to have a true relationship with a RW is to spend a long time with one and if you're gonna do that at least take some of the monitary risk out of it. I suspect everything will be fine between the two of you, but why not protect yourself just in case it doesn't work out.  
Mike -- who knows of many cases where it didn't work out when they were 100% sure it would.

[Oscar]

... in response to Yikes...., posted by LP on Mar 23, 2002

LP,

You sure are a cynical guy!  Listen, I have been to Russia and Ukraine 4 times now, so I am hardly a newbie..  I can spot a scammer a mile away, before they hardly open their mouths..  
I spent most of my trip with this girl and her family..  I am also a psychologist and am not a stupid man.  I spent a lot of time talking with her extended family about her, asking questions, probing, learning about her childhood and the kind of person she is when I have NOT been around..  EVERYONE loves this girl, she is kind, caring, a devoted mother, and has no desire to be in an agency.  She is even tempered and yes, I tested her a bit.

There are two ways to look at this experience-
The first is to go over, meet a girl and spend thousands of dollars visiting her and making her your girlfriend waiting perhaps a year or more before starting any paperwork.  Well, I am not interested in a "girlfriend", I am looking for a wife!  If some guys do it this way, fine, but it is not what I want to do.

The second way to look at it is as a mail order bride kind of experience.  Some guys go there looking for a wife, not a girlfriend.  They go with the intent of choosing a woman to marry.  
Example-
My friend went on one of my early trips.  It was to Tver Russia, Lifetime Partners, a legitimate agency.  The first girl he met was at the office and he spoke to her for 45 minutes, then he met other girls but never met with her again, probably because he was pretty overwhelmed with the whole process!  Well, he didn't connect with anyone else.  When he got home, this first girl he met wrote him a letter.  They started writing and wrote for a couple of months.  He felt she was a great girl, they asked all the tough questions of each other, and both wanted the same things in life, so he started paperwork and 4 months later, she arrived with her 6 year old daughter.  It was an adjustment for both of them at first to say the least.  This guy was 51 and she was 31 with a daughter.  He had been alone a long time, never before married.
Well, that was 2 years ago and they are still blissfully happily married!  She is so committed to this man, you just cannot inmagine..
So here is a couple of people who wanted a good person to marry and they made the committment..

What is wrong with that?  It's different for every guy.  I have had some here say that the minute they met their gorl, they knew it was right, love at first sight I guess.  Others, like me, it's more of a love at "second sight"..  But I know me and if I go over there multiple times trying to determine this or that with a woman, I am probably just going to end up talking myself out of it at some point, not because it's not good or right, but because I know me!

As a shrink, I also know statistically that the divorce rate is MUCH higher among couples who live together before marriage than those who marry and then move in together..

So for me, there is nothing wrong with what I am looking to do.  I have spent a total of about 10 days with this girl, her family, her son.  I speak to her on the phone almost daily, and we email as well..  I have been to the FSU 4 times and of all the women I have met in that time, probably about 90 women at least, I have the highest respect for and have liked her the best, on multiple levels..
10 days doesn't sound like a lot, but when you are together daily, often from 9am till midnight, asking nothing but questions about views on life etc.., it's actually quite a lot of time..
There are a lot of older couples I have met here in the states that got married after 2 weeks, sometimes less!  I am not saying those marriages always work out, but many actually do..

So, that's my thought..

[micha1]

... in response to Re: Yikes...., posted by Oscar on Mar 23, 2002

So you think that you have got the girls (women) figured out.
My friend, I have to congratulate you,  you are one in billion (does are conservative odds).
Let me stell you that women do not even know, themselves, what they will do next, so how in hell do you think
that you know what they will do, next.
This is why we love them.

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Yikes...., posted by Oscar on Mar 23, 2002

You know Oscar,  it is rather silly,  don't you think to justify your feelings for this girl....with some imperical reasoning.  Really,  its flimsy.  Like a rationalization of sorts to defend your heartfelt conclusion.  Things like 10 days with her or 90 K-1 days= 1 year relationship or been there 4 times etc,  really do not stand up to any objective scrutiny.  Its obvious that for your own reasons you have some great feelings for this girl---but you don't have to justify it with all that rickety logic you are trying to use...and no problem because you don't have to.  Try as hard as we men can to impose a logic ( a comfortable justification )to the combined feelings and thoughts of our mind and heart in relation to a girl we have some heavy duty feelings for...we just come up short.  Love just doesn't adhere to our thin logic.  Its a bit more undefinable and ethereal and yet also more earthy.  There are many factors at work here.  And in the realm of love--things can be pretty unlogical.  Keep in mind,  this is a fluid universe,  and things do change.  Things will change,  whatever your thoughts and feeling are right now.  And that is the only sure thing you can be certain of.

While I can both recognize and agree with LP (our logic daemon) on points he has raised...one should realize that all the logic we attempt to use in a given situtation like this---its only for our own security---to have some logical framework and a justification to cling to in this uncertain world of love.

Methinks,  its you rolling the dice at the craps table.  Nothing wrong with that.  You can win.  And you can loose.  Go with your gut.  Nothing ventured,  nothing gained.  You could be right and you could be wrong.  Logic doesn't work well for everything.  Especially love.  Or even on the cutting edge of science.  I wish you the best,  Tim

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Yikes...., posted by Oscar on Mar 23, 2002

Oscar,
I understand your reluctance to accept cynical ol LP's input.  I am much more of a cheerleader here and hopefully an example of how well things can work out in the pursuit of Russian women.  My advice is for you to take a deep breath and S L O W down.  Ten days aint squat.  You had your own doubts on your first trip and some how you end up being engaged?  I "met" my wife via the internet and phone and we talked daily for 3 months before I got on a plane.  Our face to face meeting could not have gone better.  We both "knew" we had something very special from the start.  We both were smart enough and mature enough to take our time though.  We spent more time together in Russia and even when I did bring Lena here, it was on a student visa.  It was only after more time together here in the States that we married.  Where's the fire?  What's your hurry?  If it is right now, it will be right in the future.  I have copied a post that was below that I think is applicable to this topic.

LP,
I think this is a good topic that exposes the heart of "this process" and the potential errors to be made. To me chemistry is compatibility not love. There are many types of compatibility. Friendship is one. Does the couple simply enjoy being together? Do they share the same interests?
Goal compatibility is important too. If you do not have similar goals, there is a great probability of future conflicts. (BTW, this is the glue that held my first marriage together. Raising our children and establishing a good life were very important to us both. I always knew I wanted much more and once the kids reached an age of independence, it was over).
Sexual compatibility is another. The old saying that all sex is good, just some is better than others does apply here. If sex is good but not great, this too can erode the base stability of a relationship. BTW, it has to be great for both. This area has the greatest risk of false readings too. Sex with a new partner is always exciting because of the newness. Will it last? Will it get better? Important questions in my mind.
Spiritual compatibility. More or less important depending upon the couple.
Someone here wrote of soul chemistry, which by my definition would be soul compatibility. This is the closest to being love in my mind.
Time is the only true test for all of these. Think about it. A new friendship has all the hopes of becoming a good friendship. Will it develop that way? Most don't. Talking about goals is easy, it is the follow through that is a beetch. New sex has been covered above. Compatibility of the soul could not even be established in a new relationship. Hmmmm, time seems rather important now doesn't it? Now if you factor in the fact that people are always evolving (changing) you potentially have a bigger problem. If it is "right" now, will it be "right" tomorrow? Scary proposition in my mind. If you are not scared, you have to be stupid. Ahh, but love is what ties this all together. Love is what makes you fearless to all the pitfalls that may lie ahead. And yes, love can also make you stupid. Only time will tell the truth.
KenC

[LP]

... in response to Re: Yikes...., posted by Oscar on Mar 23, 2002

...Cynical?  OK, guilty as charged.

I'm not saying you're doing something "wrong", I'm just pointing out that there is no need to rush into a K1 without taking a little more time and maybe one more visit.

How can you be so sure after 10 days? There have been countless guys in your exact position who felt the same only to have it go down the toilet later on. I was only pointing out that if you are daunted by the K1 process now, you don't want to have to go through it again.

I suppose the processing time can be helpful but the phone is not a substitute for spending time together. In my opinion 10 days isn't much, but its your ballgame and your right to do as you please. As for your experience, it matters not how many times you've been over, it matters how many times you've been over to see the same woman. So you've found a good one after all this time? Great. Why not make one more visit, just to cement the deal?

I'm not suggesting shes a scammer, I'm only suggesting you really don't "know" her in and out, enough to marry her. As an expert in the study of human behavior, I'm surprised you can't see the fallacy in your thinking. lol, then again, to paraphrase, a "doctor" who treats himself....

As for looking for a wife, MOB, ect, this sounds to me to be exactly what you're doing. Get it done, asap. Not good, imho. Of course, some couples who marry in less than two weeks work out, but what are those percentages? I simply fail to see why one would risk so much on so little, it took me much longer. Then again, as you said, thats my way, probally because I've witnessed so much carnage.

I do wish you luck, please don't take my communicating style
as an assault on your actions. lol, I'll reserve that for the Quasiman above.

[Oatmeal]

... in response to Oscar...., posted by LP on Mar 23, 2002

I do agree with elements of LP's post. I also agree that there tends to be a certain element of negativity (or is it reality) in his posts.

All I am saying here is that you must do as your conscience dictates.  All my life I have done things as I felt I wanted to do or accomplish and the whole time other people telling me what a mistake I was making or that I would fail or something with a negative spin.  But, if I listened to them I would not have done half the stuff I have accomplished in my life, INCLUDING being married now.  

Just to let you know I only knew my wife for a short time before we were engaged but we spent a couple of months apart before I actually began the K-1 visa process.  I am a grown-up and I know exactly what I am doing and what the risks are involved.  I don't need anyone to tell me I am taking a risk (I already know THAT).  

Up to this point my relationship has been nothing short of great and I don't have any regrets, so I say that if you feel it's right and you feel you can be committed and you feel that your lady is the same then you should go for it.  At least you can say you gave it a shot rather than say I let it slip through my hands.

I would however offer that it is still a good idea to take the 3 months here to identify any real problems with your relationship.  If at that time all is still good then go for it.

[LP]

... in response to Re: Do as your conscience dictates., posted by Oatmeal on Mar 23, 2002

....lol, no wait, how can I slam a guy whose walkin on air? Nothin worse than kickin a guy when hes up! Besides, you can't exactly be ojective at this point can ya? (I'm kidding)

Good post, and my heartfelt congratulations. Believe me, proving me wrong is often times a very good thing for all concerned. ;-)

[Dan]

... in response to Hey Oatmeal...., posted by LP on Mar 23, 2002

I know you would enjoy being proved wrong if it means someone's happiness.

You're just gettin' to be a big Ol' puppy dog LP --smile--.

Cheers!

- Dan

[Jack]

... in response to And to Your Credit . . ., posted by Dan on Mar 23, 2002

Dan, I am talking to several of our local officals, including one guy who use to live here that now lives in DC.

I am trying to prove LP wrong, as I think he made a mistake on something he said about 10 days ago. I have not had much sleep in those 10 day. What if he is right I keep telling myself,........ nawwww, he couldn't be.

[LP]

... in response to And to Your Credit . . ., posted by Dan on Mar 23, 2002

....*especially* if it means mine.

I'll accept the puppy thing as a compliment. I'll simply assume you weren't refering to the fact that they leave crap all over the place and occasionally bite. -smile-

[Oscar]

... in response to Of course Danny...., posted by LP on Mar 24, 2002

I want to thank ALL of you for your advice and imput..  It's interesting and I'm always open to opinions..

But please know, that I am NOT "pie in the sky walking on clouds", ok!  I have met and dated too many women in my life (and plenty from the FSU) to feel like a giddy schoolboy..  I LIKE this woman very much, I like the way she treats people, the stories all of the people in HER life tell about her.  She is kind, caring, affectionate, polite, passionate and a fantastic Mother, her son being the obvious evidence.  For those of you who have been to the FSU, you will know what I mean by saying that many of the people there are VERY aggressive- All you have to do is walk into the local McDonalds and experience people pushing roughly past you to get in line in front of you to know what I mean!  These people have had to be aggressive in many ways just to survive!  But she doesn't possess this mindset.  She actually held the door open for others!  You know that if you hold a door open for people there, 10 people will walk through without so much as a "thankyou"!  When people would act like this, she would just shake her head and smile, almost apologetically..  
She is forgiving and when we did talk about some possible concerns (which ended up being no big deal), she was calm, honest, and very able to discuss them in an atmosphere of love and acceptance, not like many of the women there who can be quite volatile..  There was just no comparison to her and the other girls I met on this trip in this respect.  She was so much more emotionally mature than most of the women I have met there..

Anyway, I just want to assure you all (and I do appreciate the concern, yes, even the imput from LP), that I am not just "whooped" or speaking through feelings of infatuation, I genuinely like who this girl is.. And I could not find anyone there who felt differently about her, not family not friends..  Of course these people care about her so you might think you would only get the "good" side of things, but I asked many of them some serious one-on-one questions about her and I know they were being square with me.. Again, perhaps it helps a little being a therapist, as I have been uncovering lies in people for 12 years, but I feel very good about what I found..

Yes, we were together for only 10 days..  My friend is totally happy and spent just 45 minutes with his wife before bring her here! LOL!  But we speak on the phone almost daily (and for up to an hour at a time, so her English is there, and improving literally daily!  We have this time to continue that while paperwork is being done, and the ensuing 3 months which is a TON of time when you are with someone 24/7!  It would equate to about a year of dating someone twice a week, so in my mind it is a LOT of time when you are together so much.  Believe me, if some huge surprise comes our way during that time, you can be assured I would call things off.  But the truth is that until you have that constant 3 month time together, I don't think all the little one and two week visits you want will tell you what you really need to know!  Anyone can put their best for forward for a week, but to do so 24/7 for 3 months (and with a shrink) is pretty tough!! LOL!

Anyway, thanks to all of you.. ;-)
Oscar