Here is what has happened so far.

After my original post I thought about all of this.  I decided that for me the right course of action was to lay all of my cards out on the table.  So, I confronted Tatyana with the second ad I had found.  This was done before she had a chance to respond to my first letter.

About midnight (Saturday) I get a phone call.  It is Tatyana.  She asked me if I read her email yet.  I had not.  So while speaking to her on the phone I read it.  Basically what she told me was that this was being done to her by some one at work "as a joke".  She was obviously upset but not overly dramatic about things.

There is more to the conversation then that.  But, basically I believed her.  I mean this woman had introduced me to her family,  encouraged me to develop a relationship with her daughter.  To me it just did not make sense that she would place these personal ads.

Well, even though I believed her I am not completely stupid.  Monday morning I did some additional internet searching.  What do I find?  You guessed it.  2 more ads.

So, I now have a total of four ads.  One was quite old probably predating our relationship (I won't even take it into consideration).  The one on the datingru site was probably place last fall.  Another placed on 1/11/2002 and the most recent placed on 2/13/2002 (this one was taken down by her on Monday morning).

All of this really has me thinking and none of it adds up.  Her story does not fit.  But in my mind, neither does her placing all of these ads.  

I wrote her a letter in which I raised thes issues that for me did not add up.

The adds used a total of 4 different pictures.  Would someone playing a joke have access to all of these?

The ads were placed at different times.  Nobody I know who plays jokes is quite this persistant.

The wording in the ad placed 1/11 is almost exactly the same as the ad through which we met.  This ad had been removed quite some time ago.

Her response to me was unwavering she insisted that she had not placed the recent ads and that they had been placed by a co worker of hers.  She also asked why I did not trust her etc...  She alo asked me what I thought her actions in regard to introducing me to her family, relationship with her daughter et. al. indicated.  She asked if these were the actions of a woman who cared about me or a woman who was looking for another man.

I continued to push her a bit.  The facts still did not ad up for me  one way or the other.  Finally her story changed in that she told me this was the act of a co-worker whom had asked her out numerous times but whom she had told no.

I told her that even if what she was telling me was true.  It just opened up a different set of issues  (communication)and that even this lack of communication still ultimatly had more to do with trust than anything else.

We spoke again on the phone this morning.  At this point I still do not believe I have gotten the complete story.  I do not think she is seriously looking to meet another man.  If anything thing i think she may be trying to keep some options open on some level.  (If I do not ask her to marry me in June she will atleast have some correspondance going).

As far as the story about the co-worker.  It just does not ad up for me.  I give it a fairly minimal change of being true.

So, where does this leave me?  I am not sure.  I genuinely believe she cares for me and I care for her.  We have a good time together.  She has many traits that appeal to me.  But, if she is not being completely honest with me we have no future.

I guess I am going to continue to maintain a relationship with her.  I do not think I will be initiating the Visa process in June.  I may write some additional women.  I will be watching her.

http://www.ntu.edu.sg/library/search/specialcat.htm#region

I didn't feel I was ripping the man's head off. Just my usual blunt nature being mistaken for malice which isn't really there. You would see a great difference if I was truly in the decapitating mode. My point was that the while the board (sometimes) provides good advice regarding the technical and quasi-technical aspects of the issues, I see little point in why anyone would discuss their personal tribulations here. In a situation like Phil's, I also fail to see what possible use any advice can be, as there are too many subtleties involved.

Only he knows the score 100% and giving him useless input only muddies his waters, so to speak. Would you ask a person on the street for this kind of advice? Do you think that just because those here share his pursuit, that singular and simple connection makes them any more qualified?

In my opinion, it does not. My point was also that a man should make his own decisions using his gut instinct, training, experience, and other input that is relevant at the time. If Phil finds the advice here to be such, than he and I do disagree, as we obviously do on airing one's private life to a bunch of strangers for what I see as little or no tangible benefit.

I *do* care what others think because it effects my life in ways that I must deal with frequently. I also recognize this board for what it is but, as you stated, that may not be as others see it, including yourself. Your other points are all valid and I accept them as truth but the fact is many posts do come across to any rational person as classic loser fodder. I can be empathic (or is that emphatic? :-), but maybe not so much in this case. The guy needs to get it together if he wants to have what it takes to survive this endeavor, is all I'm saying.

I was going to respond to Phil's original post and tell him I did internet searches on every girl I "met" before I committed any resources to them and that he should have done this long ago. I was also going to tell him that I caught 80% of them lying in one form or another and one was even running a porn site. In the end, I concluded that being a little untruthful in relations is almost rooted in their culture, they see little wrong with it, and it isn't going away anytime soon. (lol, I liked the girl running the porn site and that wasn't the showstopper but, as it turned out, moving on was the best thing for me.)

I finally chose a woman whos's lies were "white" and accepted it (like the visa thing) as part of the game. If any of the romantic types here still searching think differently, than you just haven't tried hard enough to catch her in the act. If you think she, or anyone else, is a baston of truth, than you haven't learned much about human behavior in general.

But I didn't post it because it Phil should learn from his own experiences and he wouldn't have accepted it anyway. Btw, I also predicted he would continue on with her. (Maybe now I'm feeling a little hypoxic, where is that danm O2 mask?)

I recognize my communication skills are lacking in some areas. This does not mean I have any malice towards anyone, just that I'm trying to get my opinion across as honestly as I see it, as is my right. I wish Phil luck, but IMHO he needs to look inward instead of towards the sucking, swirling void of the Internet. (lol, which is little more than a global pornography network, just ask Yoey)

Btw, there is a reason behind the "cockpit" thing and I'll be happy to explain it, as long as you can explain to me why they call it a "box office". :-)

I should have made it clearer that while you are speaking in a general sense, I'm speaking of Phil's particular situation. His scenario (and a few others I can envision), seem less likely to benefit from any advice given here than other cases. After all, as you've stated, the advice is only what *others* would do and I fail to see how that can be applied to Phil since only he knows all ins and outs of his deal. While the others offer specific advice based only on what *they* would do, mine is to use his own bean to figure it out. If you think about it, thats quite a different thing.

Phil states that we all learn from other's experiences and I agree, but this particular experience seems to me less suited for extenal input. I'll admit other solicitaions of advice may be more or less valuable depending on situation. However, I still find it odd that some will openly spill private details of their life to strangers when, in certain circustances, they would not do so even to close friends. Guess thats just me, though.

As for my "straight up approach", believe me, I do not always consider it an asset. Hell, it rubs *me* the wrong way at times. I'm not going invoke the "Popeye Defense" either (I yam what I yam), as I believe change can be a good thing.

Your (and a few others) thoughful and even responses to my sometimes harsh expressions are in fact cause for me to reflect. lol, I've actually made much progress in the last ten years but there is still some distance to go. I'm workin on it though, thanx to guys like you, Ken, Dan, and a few others external to PL. Unfortunatley, morons can slow this process and I meet a lot of morons, including some real pros here. Funny, but the woman in my life thinks I have a very "sensitive soul" (a classic FSU term).
I haven't figured out if she means gentle, "touchy", or its' simply because we treat the ones we love a little softer.

Not sure, but your explanation of Box Office seems plausable. Btw, this is a term now used in the airline biz also. Female flight crew are common these days and its hard to believe the first *all* female crewed flight happened in the 70s, a lot longer ago than most people realize. My mate is astounded that such oppurtunities exist for her gender in the USA and even more amazed when I tell her women are actually favored by law in such positions as professional flying, firefighting, law enforcement, ect. (lol, if you think teaching a woman to drive is tough, try teaching one to fly.) I'll leave it up to others to debate the wisdom of those political decisions but I will say women make good pilots when it comes to handling the machine itself. They have the light touch, finess, and grace required, but where they often fail badly is in the technical understanding of systems.

I was introducing a new female FO to a small biz jet some years ago and while walking the exterior of the aiplane I pointed out the "ice lights" (small external lights used to inspect the wings in night flight for ice accumulation.) When we were finished, I asked if she had any questions and in all seriousness she asked: "How do those little lights melt all the ice"?

"Cockpit"? As I undertsand it, its an old nautical term refering to the place in a sailboat or yatch where steering is performed. The "well" or "pit" is this area.) I've also read it applies to 18th century warships where sailors (men, of course) were taken when wounded.

Actually, I'm often called a big one (what a needle does), but I assume they're refering to my award winning personality. :-)