living costs russia, ukraine

[gmb79819]

ok, i'm thinking about living in dnepropetrovsk based on my visit there last year.  i know this is sort of a daunting task, but i'll definately appreciate your help.

i have a few questions and i hope maybe someone here might have some info:
1) how much to buy a new pickup truck (say a Dodge/Ford/Chevy)?
2) price of gasoline?
3) how much to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in dnepropetrovsk compared to moscow.
4) how much power/utilities monthly?
5) what is considered a good clubbin city in Russia to live in?

hey thanks in advance for any info you can give me on the living expenses.

Red

[Mike]

... in response to living costs russia, ukraine, posted by gmb79819 on Feb 18, 2002

No trucks in Moscow that I ever saw. If you're not pulling our leg then try shipping your truck or buying your truck in another country and drive in If you make it across I would bet someone would want to buy it from you for the big money!
Mike

[Lara]

... in response to living costs russia, ukraine, posted by gmb79819 on Feb 18, 2002

Sorry, ,i know nuffing about Dnepropetrovsk  maybe the price of the petrol is about 7/8 RUR per litre (0.2 cents)

[DE]

... in response to living costs russia, ukraine, posted by gmb79819 on Feb 18, 2002

Hey Red,

In all the trips I have made to Ukraine, I have yet to see a pick-up truck!  Much less either an American or Japanese one.  When women asked me what kind of car I have, I could not explain that to them much less show them an example of one.  They just don't have those beasts there (at least I never saw any).  Good luck finding one of those puppies over there.  I did see one older (1980ish) Corvette.  Parts would be my biggest concern.  You would definately attact a lot of attention if you had a pick up with them big tires and raised body where you needed a step ladder to get in. LOL

[John K]

... in response to Re: living costs russia, ukraine, posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002

Don't know if it's the same in Russia, but a lot of the Ukrainian police/military patrols in Kiev ran around in SUV's.  While I didn't see any pickups, you might be able to score a SUV.

Otherwise, buy it here and ship it overseas.  Pretty expensive that way, but at least you'd have it then.  Of course, you'll spend all your time worrying about it getting stolen, and if it breaks down, you'll spend a lot of downtime and money to get it fixed.

Personally, I'd probably buy a Lada or some other cheap Russian/Ukrainian variant and save the money for something more important.  But to each their own...

[jj]

... in response to I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine..., posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002

.

[DE]

... in response to I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine..., posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002

yeah, I saw a lot of SUVs.  Especially the Land Crusiers, some Jeep Cherokees, a few other Japanese ones and of course European ones.  A few Chevy Blazers as well.  The problem with taking one over there is their import fees from what I am told are quite high.  As high as 100% of the value of the vehicle?  Heck, I thought about shipping over an older Cadallic or Lincoln Limo as I have never seen any of these there.  Thought it might be a good business venture for transporting the mafia types around in style as well as airport pick-up for guys going over (kind of part of the VIP service).

[Dan]

... in response to Re: I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine...., posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002

Fully-assembled vehicles have quite a high important duty/fee structure - whereas "parts" can be fairly reasonable.

The challenge is to find that threshold between what constitutes "parts" and "vehicles" - if you catch my drift --smile--.

- Dan

[DE]

... in response to Parts - You Need to be Thinking "Pa..., posted by Dan on Feb 18, 2002

I just recently got a lead on a company in Kiev that is looking to import American and Japanese passenger cars into Ukraine.  They are looking for an American distributor or dealer to export the cars.  They are looking for used cars in the 2000-2001 model year not to exceed $23,000 USD per car based obviously on mileage and condition.  They are seeking a long term business relationship.  The company is a private company with an annual revenue of 8 million USD and 150 Ukrainian employees.  Got the lead from our good ol US Government!  Currently corresponding with them to develop bid proposal.

[Lynn]

... in response to Actually. . ., posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002

A few years ago one of my friends got involved in a business deal in Russia to import used American/Japanese suvs with a company that had virtually the same MO as the one you just described. He and two of his business associates went to Moscow, spent a week and about 5K each only to discover the deal was not as sweet as said. They had no idea about the mafia being involved. It went from as workable deal to the demand that at least ten vehicles worth at least 25K each be recieved in port and another ten in transit before any money was transfered. When they showed signs of backing out their "partners" started taking a strong arm stance in trying to force the deal. My freind and his partners basicly told them what they wanted to hear and got the heck out of there and broke all contact once they got back home. Frankly, I think the whole thing scared the crap out of all of them.

[Dan]

... in response to Actually. . ., posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002

Not to put you off, but more than a year ago I learned of a couple of similar 'opportunities.' It seems a number of young Russian (or Ukrainian) guys/gals attending university in the States wrote a term paper on the topic, and it drew a LOT of attention. Unfortunately, what many discovered is that the 'hard' industries (such as automobiles) is rife with corruption and heavily-influenced (or controlled) by organized crime in collusion with government agencies.

I wish you luck - really. Just please be careful. You can lose more than just your money in this particular endeavor.

- Dan

[odeccaman1]

... in response to Caution . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 18, 2002

some cities are less corrupt than others but in Odessa one must have the local "big bandeette's" OK to operate any business at street level. Also you have no recourse here should a deal go sour even if your contracts are perfect, the court system is a joke. An American guy driving around in his pickup will spend more time along the side of the road paying the militia than driving, that is at least until the truck is ultimately stolen. Quite simply the government is incapable of governing the populace and by default the job fell to local mafias as they were the only "organized" group available to keep the peace.

[Ramblin]

... in response to all businesses are essentially run by th..., posted by odeccaman1 on Feb 19, 2002

Yeah, that's what I thought and it's really sad.  When I was in Kiev, I asked one of my interpreters:  If Gorbachev and Yeltsin could abolish Communism, why couldn't they abolish corruption and the Mafia?  His answer was:  Who do you think got Gorbachev and Yeltsin elected?  It was the Mafia that got them elected!  I've been thinking about this problem a lot and the only solution I can think of is either an intervention from God or some serious law enforcement crackdowns like occured against Al Capone in Chicago.  You guys also need a fierce IRS collecting taxes and confiscating assets of those that don't pay.  An agency like our feared Internal Revenue Service would do wonders for your country.

[odeccaman1]

... in response to Re: all businesses are essentially run b..., posted by Ramblin on Feb 19, 2002

are simply not willing to put their lives at risk to confront organized crime

[Ramblin]

... in response to people making $40 a month are, posted by odeccaman1 on Feb 20, 2002

Exactly.  That's why Ukraine needs to collect more taxes to pay the police force and other government officials enough not to be corrupt.  And without it being corrupt, there would be more foreign investment which would bring in more money to Ukraine and more tourists and more money.  But instead, you have just the opposite cycle with money staying away unless it's corrupt money.