Lately this topic (infidelity) was often discussed on this board. I want to give you one more opinion on this matter.

Recently there was a show on Russian TV where they discussed it. One professional phsychologist said: “Mistresses strengthen a family”. Crazy idea? Absurd? But let’s try to look deeper into this statement.

Let’s imagine that two 20 y.o. people got married and lived happily together for 25 years (by the way, it was very common to get married at this age 20-25 years ago and even now it’s quite common). They managed to keep love, mutual respect, friendship etc. through all these years and noone of then had ever thought about divorce. But it happened so that a 45 y.o. husband was not very much attracted sexually to his 45 y.o. wife anymore and started to look at younger girls. Is it very surprising or unusual? Wow, I imagine how you guys jump on me crying: “You are mistaken, Tootsie, 45 y.o. women are so much attractive to 45 y.o. men, we are all looking for these “babushkas”!” LOL. So if we put kidding aside this board is the best confirmation of the fact that this is more “normal” than unusual. I’m quire sure that the vast majority of you is looking for much younger women ONLY because you are attracted to them sexually. I can hardly believe that you are looking for intellectual equals, reliable partners etc. among much younger age range. No doubt that you all realize that marrying a much younger girl encreases all the risks of such marriage many times but you still go for it because of this ONLY reason. Probably because this is a very important matter for a middle-aged man.

So we go further. Let’s imagine that a man’s high “Christian moral values” (I quote WmGO) or other reasons (lack of money etc.) will keep a man away from affairs on side, he will ingnore his strong desires and keep faithfullness to his wife. Most probably he will not feel very comfortable or completely happy anymore. He will get irritated more often with things he didn’t even notice earlier, perhaps will cry at his wife and children for nothing, his “bad mood” will “happen” more often than before. And this will certainly affect phsychological comfort in his family and relationship with his wife.

And if he follows his desires and gets a mistress (sure hiding this fact from his wife) he will get sex he needs, new impressions he needs (phsychologist say it’s even more important for a man than sex) and keeps himself happy and comfortable not bringing his phsychological problems to his family. Everyone in this situation will win – a man, his wife who will not be aware of a mistress but will have a loving happy husband, always in a good mood, and a mistress (she will get money or whatever else). The main trick is not to get emotionally attached to a young mistress which seem to be rather easy for most RM.

But each coin has two sides. You can apply the same situation to a woman who is not attracted to her much older (or not much older) husband anymore.

Please don’t think that I’m for infidelity. And it wasn’t my idea that infidelity strengthens a family. But still maybe there is something true about it… What do you think?

Yours,

Tootsie

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

Genesis 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh.  Matthew 19:3-9  The Pharisees also came to Jesus, tempting Him by asking Him "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"  And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two shall be one flesh?'  Wherefore they are no more two but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined together let not man put asunder."  They say unto Him, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement and to put her away?"  He said to them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.  And I say to you, Whosoever shall put away his wife except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery.  And whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."  Mark 10:12  And if a woman shall put away her husband and be married to another, she commits adultery.  1 Corinthians 6:16  What?  Know you not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body?  For two, says He, shall be one flesh.  1 Corinthians 6:18  Flee fornication.  Every sin that a man does is outside of the body, but he that commits fornication, sins against his own body.  1 Corinthians 7:2-5  Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.  Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence and likewise also the wife unto the husband.  The wife has not power of her own body, but the husband; and likewise also the husband has not power of his own body, but the wife.  Do not defraud (withhold sex from your spouse) one the other, except it be with consent for a time to give yourselves to fasting and prayer, then come together again that Satan not tempt you for your incontinency.   Galations 5:19-23  Now the works of the flesh are manifest which are these:  adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of the which I tell you before as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering (patience), gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance – against such there is no law.  Exodus 21:14  Thou (you) shall not commit adultery.  Romans 7: 2-3  For the woman which has a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.  So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress though she be married to another man.  Proverbs 5:1-21  My son, attend unto my wisdom, and bow your ear to my understanding that you may regard discretion and that your lips may keep knowledge.  For the lips of a strange woman drop as a honeycomb and her mouth is smoother than oil; but her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two edged sword.  Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.  Lest you should ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that you can not know them.  Hear me now therefore, O you children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.  Remove your way far from her, and come not near the door of her house; lest you give your honor to others, and your years to the cruel.  Lest strangers be filled with your wealth, and your labors be in the house of a stranger.  And you mourn at the last, when your flesh and your body are consumed, and say, "How have I hated instruction and my heart despised reproof.  And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined my ear to them that instructed me!  I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly."  Drink waters out of your own cistern and running waters out of your own well.  Let your fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.  Let them be only your own and not strangers' with you.  Let your fountain be blessed and rejoice with the wife of your youth.  Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe.  Let her breasts satisfy you at all times and be you ravished always with her love.  And why will you, my son, be ravished with a strange woman and embrace the bosom of a stranger?  For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and He ponders all his goings.  John 8:4-5  They said to Him, "Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned (to death), but what say you?"  John 8:11 Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you, go, and sin no more.  Romans 10:11  For the scripture says, whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed.  Hebrews 10:26-31  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses; of how much sorer punishment do you suppose he be thought worthy who has trodden under foot the Son of God and has counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has done respite unto the Spirit of grace?  For we know Him that has said, "Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, “ says the Lord.  And again, “The Lord shall judge His people."  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

... in response to Amen, posted by Cold Warrior on Dec 12, 2001

"Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God." Matthew quoting Yeshua in the desert during the tempation.

One thing I would add,it is common in many Muslim countries for men to have multiple wives. There also seems to be some fetish with young girls that is quite prevalent in Muslim societies. There is much literature authored by Muslim clerics, both ancient and contemporary, that focuses on the subject of young prepubescent girls.

... in response to In addition ++ William, posted by JohnL on Dec 13, 2001

Hey John!

Yes, no doubt that the Koran is a purely man-made self serving set of fleshly doctrine. I studied it many years ago and there can be no doubt that the god of the Quran is not the God of the Bible.

Best wishes for the Holidays!

WmGO

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

A man died shortly after his wife had died.  Upon entering heaven, St. Peter said that because he had never cheated on his wife that he could have his choice of the best group of cars and pick one out.  So he picked a nice Cadillac car to be his car for him to drive around in heaven.  The next day, a friend of his saw him in his nice Cadillac and wanted to know why he was weeping so bitterly when he had a Cadillac to drive.  The man said that he had just seen his wife and she was driving a skate board.

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

Tootsie,

I have read just about all posts on the issues of infidelity and mistresses.

I find that there is a great gap between the way AM and RW/RM view this marriage arrangement.

AM/AW do not have the basic survival instinct and have progressed a long ways from having to use that type of human behavior.  Their motivations are different.  In America life is relatively easy with many basics of life taken for granted.  Take food for example.  Daily rations of food is really not considered a problem to most Americans.  If you don't have food to eat someone will have something to give you.  We abhorr someone that goes hungry and will do anything to help them.  Take lodging for example.  Most Americans have a home or place they can call home.  If you lose it somehow then someone will take you in and take care of you.  You will have a warm bed to sleep in.  If you are sick someone will help get you medical care.  We have all the necessary government programs in place to make sure Americans are healthy, well fed, and clothed.

I know that in Ukraine if you lose your apartment or don't have enough food to eat there is the fearful uncertainty that you will either freeze to death or die of starvation.  In America this would be unacceptable and make front page news.  Here in Ukraine it would hardly make a ripple.

That is why RW seek AM.  It is not motivated by the intense desire for love.  It is motivated by survival.  Love comes later.  Simple.  I fail to understand why many posting here continue to dissect the reasons RW seek AM.  You continue to wrestle with the reasons and rationalize away all arguments to support why RW seek you for marriage.  Understand this basic human behavior and you will undertstand RW.

Why do we continue to argue, tear apart, rip up, analyze, and reconstruct all the reasons RW want AM for marriage?  It is simple and easy to understand.  But if you haven't experienced a basic life of survival then it may be difficult to undertand.

Life is simple here and not complex at all.  Have food in the house and a warm bed you can call your own and you are happy.  Come live here for a year or two among the locals and you will see.  BTW, I do not live in an expat commnunity.  I live in a cottage among the locals.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine, Kiev Oblast

... in response to Hey Jimmy, posted by thesearch on Dec 12, 2001

I have said this before in other posts and that if everything remained equal concerning financial matters and future prospects between me and RM then my RW would not be interested in me.  I speak of that in the beginning of our relationship.  I don' know about now.  I believe she has grown to love me over this past year.  If I were to lose all my money and future prospects for a job then I don't really know.  Who does?  If money and materialism motivated her in the first place to start and continue a relationship with me then how much should I believe her now when she tells me that she would stay with me if I had nothing.  I think this applies to any woman AW or RW.

I knew of women with great moral character and values that stayed with their husbands through thick and thin.  Today I don't see those types of women.  My mother was one with great moral character and great values.

If a man strays from his wife to deposit his sperm in another woman just so he can satisfy some evolutionary instinct then we are in a sad state of affairs.  We are no better than the animals and don't deserve to possess the qualities of love and justice.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine

... in response to Re: A little more on infidelity in Russi..., posted by Jimmy on Dec 12, 2001

Jimmy,
I agree with your take on an economicly challanged Ukrainian.  How does your thinking change with a much better lifestyle?  My wife came from an intact, loving and faithfull family with few economic woes.  Both parents worked good jobs.  They have a very nice flat, a car, a summer house and were never hungry.  My wife and her family have great pride in their Motherland and my wife would PREFER to live in Russia.  There are many catagories of FSU women, not just the economicly depressed.
KenC
p.s. (Her take on the fidelity issue is that a RW would be MORE faithfull to an AM than an AW because the RW would appreciate the fidelity of the AM.  She thinks that AW take it too "for granted")