... in response to Fantastic Story on RWL - Part 2, posted by juio99 on Dec 13, 2001

I do not know where to find RWL. What ages we talking about here?

... in response to 58,33, posted by Bob S. on Dec 13, 2001

I have heard all the arguments over the couple years I have been reading here.
    It boils down to one thing guys whether you want to believe it or not. If you were 33 would you want to be with someone who is 58.
    In 90% of the cases I would have to say that the younger partner has a reason for being with the older partner other than love.
    I would concede that there may be 10% that believe they love the older partner. I would suggest that that 10% suffers from conditions in their childhood which make them believe that they in fact do love the older person. In all actuality, they have a problem.
    We can talk ourselves into thinking that  a much younger woman will want to be with us but in most cases it is simply not so.
    I wish that wasn't the way it is but to think otherwise is simply fooling ourselves.

                        Rod

... in response to This is what happens when you force your..., posted by Ryan on Dec 13, 2001

Yes he let it happen but she most likely told him it would not happen or was not an issue so you have to assume that all of these ladies are liars - will  marry you for security and the green card. Essentially that is what your post is saying.

I would suspect that your reaction would be - that is not true at all - it is about him pushing the limits. I know what you meant Ryan by your post and I know you did not mean such. However I just want to use it to start a discussion about shades of grey and how they can be related to the blacks and whites of all of this. This post is not directed at you at all.

Of course the likely hood of having this happening increases as the age span does - however, If we take it a bit further hopefully my point becomes clear as to what I am trying to say here. You may say - well you have to be reasonable and this guy was not being reasonable.

Ok, if we are going to be reasonable then lets not be prejudice about this - lets be honest - let's not delude ourselves. For example - look at Jimmy's posts - the words from a man who has been living in Ukraine for some time - reasonable also entails acknowledging that because of the economic plight of many areas of the FSU, many women view security as their primary issue and love for you may NOT be the primary issue plain and simple.

You are the ticket - while in her mind she is saying to herself - maybe I can learn to love him. Do you really think she will tell you that you are not really her type if such is the case? However, she is willing to proceed down the K-1 path for that security. Besides once she is here, if it does not work to her satisfaction after two years, she is where there are a lot of single men who can provide security. So, she can choose someone she really wants and not give up security.

Now, this could be viewed as a negative post. It could also said that this has been hashed over many times. It is the kind of stuff that trolls tell us is the case every time and that we are stupid.

I think that there are probably many cases where an FSU woman married an American guy that was not exactly what she wanted relative to a husband but after two years felt close enough that leaving him is not something she is thinking about. However, I would bet that six months into the relationship, with her seeing all of the nice eligible men she might have moments when she thinks maybe she could have done better.  

This is simply a realistic post and yes it has been hashed over before but, I bet there is someone here who needs a reminder.

Just as you say this guy let it happen - I tell you the guy who did not think that he was pushing the limits but gets burned also let it happen. And, everyone here - EVERYONE HERE (with  few exceptions) is pushing the limits - it is only about degree. No one is going over there to bring back a woman that is the same quality that they can get at home period. Anyone who would do this is doing it the hard way without any reward for doing such. It would not make any sense.

Why bring this up, because just as this gentleman let this happen - one can point the finger at him because of a large age difference and somehow feel safe in some form of complacency merely because you compare yourself to him and say I am being more realistic.

Time and time again, I see posts here that indicate to me that many ignore red flags or rationalize them away because she is not 20 years younger but only five or ten years younger. Forget the fact that she just happens to be twice as attractive as anything you have ever dated back home.

Am I opposed to this process of going to the FSU. Heck no, there are so many beautiful women over there. For a guy who wants the best he can get in a spouse - looking to the FSU is a way to possibly accomplish such with greater certainty of success than if he kept looking in his own back yard. I firmly believe this.

I simply realize that anyone can get deluded and an easy way to not examine yourself is to point to a case like this and say to yourself I am being reasonable - perhaps even to the point of not seeing warnings yourself.

Newbies need be reminded of these issues over and over. I know that when I first got into this, I was naive, vulnerable and only through posts like this from those more experienced than me did I finally gain a more balanced perspective. I had to be reminded several times before it really settled in.

One just has to understand that women will lie to you, and a guy who thinks he is in love or has a mission is very vulnerable to not seeing a woman's actions that are trying to reveal the truth to him and he refuses to see them for what they are. He can even get mad when someone points them out to him.  I see many posts whereby it appears that the guy is trying to rationalize away red flags. This is easy to do because communication issues can create false red flags. I know this has happened to me several times and I actually reacted as though they were red flags and caused damage because of my actions.

So all of this is about a balancing act of recognizing a red flag and knowing how and when to act and not being paranoid about red flags or being scammed.

Because if you are at one end of the spectrum relative to being too trusting or the other of being too paranoid you greatly increase your odds of having problems or if you vacillate from one end to the other you will create problems also. I remember in the early days I would be more paranoid when I would read posts about scammers and then I would be too trusting when I would read the wonderful posts.

In other words, if you get too hung up on scammers and red flags you can damage a relationship with a perfectly honest woman but do not be gullable either and trust what she says when the actions do not seem to match the words.

My protocol on red flags is do not react right away. Wait and watch for other signs. Assume that you could be wrong about her however act as though you trust her totally. When you come from this dichotomy IMHO you allow the truth to become evident.

When you are in doubt pose the question to the board - the responses will get you to think and perhaps get a different perspective. I do not mean to project that I know everything. I do not, or I would not be here. I just have my personal opinions some correct and some not so correct. I can say that the correctness of my opinions has been impacted very favorably from many wise words that others have posted. And, this post is more directed at Newbies for the mere purpose of promoting contemplation of the venture that they are starting.

Good luck to everyone

... in response to Re: Comment for Newbies or La La Land pe..., posted by Jimmy on Dec 14, 2001

Hi Jimmy,
I totally agree with you about the competition.  The ladies I dated in Ukraine were much younger than I and although I can ocassionally attract ladies just as young here, there is a lot of competition for the young ladies here.  Whereas you say, over there the competition is for the men that can provide security.  So your solution is for me to move there and that will solve the problem of the young lady that I end up with finding too many rich, handsome, studs making her offers.  And I agree with you that it would solve that problem very well because I was amazed at the young beauties I was attracting just walking down the street.  However, this is trading one problem for several more problems.  Following your advice solves this competition problem and gives me more opportunities with the young ladies but what about the language?  What about getting a decent job there?  What about breathing clean air and not having those darn cigarette smokers everywhere?  I have been enjoying California's decade or so laws that prohibit smoking in restaurants, the work place, and now even in bars and discos, it's great!  What about the corruption and getting robbed by the police?  What about the high crime in general there?  What about the sorry looking buildings? Well mostly just the language, job, and smoking make it not of interest to me, although like you said, the high quality and quantity of ladies and the low quantity of male competition did make me think about it.

... in response to Re: Comment for Newbies or La La Land pe..., posted by Jimmy on Dec 14, 2001

1

... in response to Comment for Newbies or La La Land people, posted by thesearch on Dec 13, 2001

I would like to add that men looking that are not truthful with their new friends will always get burned in the long run.  We are American men most of us have been brought up in a capitalist atmosphere.  We are all little sales men when we date American women.  I was once told that to get good American women you have to be like an actor or a salesman in order to get their interest (T.V.)  We exaggerate what we have we talk about how we live in a positive was we tell these women what we think they want to here because we want to get their attention.  Why because we think we have competitions well we probably do there and over here.  Then when we have it and get them into the day to day they freak and come up with words that we don’t want to here and find offensive.  My feeling is that the men that win in love are the simple men that know themselves enough in this society that prevail to the end.  We present ourselves as responsible MEN we do not dwell on material things that can be seen as being that what we are not.  It is about being upfront in the beginning or near to it.  It is about looking in the mirror and being true to yourself…  

Ok not I have to find that poem that my grandmother gave me when I graduated college.  (God bless her..  That took me way to long to find)

The Man in the Glass

When you get what you want in your struggle for self and the world makes you king for a day.  Just go to the mirror and look at yourself and see what THAT man has to say.

For it isn’t your father or mother or wife whose judgment you must pass.  The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life is the one staring back from the glass.

Some people might think you’re a straight-shootin’ chum and call you a wonderful guy.  But the man in the glass says you’re only a bum if you can’t look him straight in the eye.

He’s the fellow to please, never mind all the rest for he’s with you clear to the end and you’ve passed your most dangerous test, if the guy in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years and get pats on the back as you pass.  But your final reward will be the heartache and tears if you’ve cheated the man in the glass.

Ryan……………..

... in response to Comment for Newbies or La La Land people, posted by thesearch on Dec 13, 2001

Excellent post.