RW/RM Russian Life

[Jimmy]

Tootsie from Moscow posted a response to one of my posts below but I think it went largely ignored or not read by many so I would like to repost the core of the message again.

Toosie wrote:

Quote:

"Also, in my opinion you all overestimate the fact that many RM have mistresses. It’s not their most important weakness, believe me. In fact it’s not as common and as important as you think. First in order to have a young mistress a man should have very good financial position. A young girl will hardly sleep with a much older married (and non-married too, by the way) man for free. Men also have no illusions about “love” and clearly realize that the first, second, third and tenth reason for a girl’s “love” is his money. The vast majority of men hide the fact of mistress from their wives. It’s not very common that a man divorces his “old” wife and marries a young mistress. Wife is wife, she is mother of his children, reliable friend and partner who will stay with him no matter what happens. If he gets sick she will take care of him. If he looses his money she will still stay with him and supports him. As a rule a young mistress is just a young paid body for sex, nothing else.

Another “problem” here is alcoholism, it’s more serious then “mistresses” but still not so important. Alcoholism is much more common is “working class” families among non-educated people than in intelligent ones. No doubt that a woman who has self respect will never live with an alcholic."

Unquote.

The question I have for this board is: "What does our society in the US find to be a more serious problem, extra-marital affairs or excessive drinking?"  Will a marriage break up quicker from excessive drinking or extra-marital affairs?  

Now I know from experience gained here in Ukraine that having a fling with someone is not looked on as seriously as having a drinking problem.  In fact, having an affair here while married is fairly accepted and not a big fuss is made of it.  I also know from experience gained in the US that usually an affair with someone else will quickly break a marriage.  It tears at the core of our Christian values and beliefs.  While drinking is just a problem of society and not one that will necessarily destroy a marriage or give a spouse the moral right for divorce.  I know that excessive drinking has destroyed many US marriages but I want to know about the distain that is held by many concerning these two aspects of US marriages.

Please realize that what I write does not apply in every case but in general is what I have observed or heard.

I pose this question to the board since I feel that I am just understanding what is termed "Russian Life".

That term "Russian Life" was told to me by someone that understood it better than me and wanted me to understand what was normal and what was not.  We have in the US what you would call "American Life" and all that goes with it.

I want to emphasize that RW/RM and AM/AW have somewhat different value systems to some degreee when it comes to marriage.  If you expect that the values you hold dear in America will apply here then please re-evaluate your approach.  It may not be what she is thinking.  She may not tell you the truth about all her lovers or affairs.

Remember that the truth was suppressed here for generations and people were expected to lie and avoid the truth.  Own up to what was sincerely the truth and it would get you killed or sent to Siberia.

There are two Russian words for truth.  One is Pravda and the other is the real Pravda.  One is fact and the other is sincerity.  Pravda is from the mind and sincerity is from the heart.  I learned this sometime ago and never forgot it.

What is really necessary for marriage is to find the sincere truth from the heart.  Believe me your RW will know what you are talking about.  I can't write the Russian Cyrillic letters because I don't think they will post correctly but you can find out from a translator what is the different words.

Of course as always, these posts are just my opinion and I hope that you all take it for what it's worth.  Lately I have had allot of time to post since I will be returning to the US in Feb.  Elena will be going with me later when I apply for the K-1 visa.  I think that is the best avenue.  I have studied all of the visa approaches.  I also think Elena and I need more time together and apart to see how things work out.  Time is the great revealer of truth, sincere truth.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine, Kiev Oblast

[WmGo]

... in response to RW/RM Russian Life, posted by Jimmy on Dec 8, 2001

Another good post Jimmy. All of your recent posts have been good and right on the mark.

Yes, adultry is considered much worse in American culture than Russian/Ukrainian culture. Although excessive drinking is frowned on and sometimes winked at here, it is rarely the cause of divorce in the US unless verbal or physical abuse or chronic unemployment results from it. The fact that Russian/Ukrainian culture is the opposite is one of the major negative aspects of that culture. It is obviously much more shallow to betray another's trust and renig on a vow than it is to be addicted to alchohol. The adulterer is engaging in a premeditated and inherantly evil act, whereas the alchoholic cannot help himself no matter how pure his motives and intent.

I am sure that one of the reasons for this significant cultural difference is as you point out - the absence of Christian morals and values in the FSU. I perceive that the obsession with appearances is also a factor: an alchoholic is viewed by many in FSU as being weak and stupid, and it is more important there to appear to be smart and strong than it is to have moral strength and integrity.

You have to hand it to the Communists; they did an excellent job of ruining the Russian soul. Now that the Almighty has brought down the Wall of Dictatorship, the Gospel is flowing freely throughout the FSU. This is already changing the hearts and minds of many there. Hopefully this will continue and spread.

Good luck.

WmGo

[Bob S.]

... in response to Adultry vs. Alchoholism, posted by WmGo on Dec 8, 2001

I remember reading as statistic some time ago.  I don't know how accurate it is.  It went something like this:
90% of women will stay with an alcoholic husband; 90% of men will leave an alcoholic wife.

[slimjimco]

... in response to RW/RM Russian Life, posted by Jimmy on Dec 8, 2001

n/t

[Ramblin]

... in response to RW/RM Russian Life, posted by Jimmy on Dec 8, 2001

Jimmy,
I just skimmed your post and didn't read much of it but I think I would like to comment a little on American culture regarding this subject.  Have you ever heard the song by Lynard Skynard "Give me three steps?"  It is about a man who discovers his lady dancing with another man and as a result, points a gun at him and says "I'm a man who cares, and this might be all for you!"  Ever see that episode of Mad about you?  Jaime confesses to Paul that she kissed another man and Paul moves out and almost divorces her.  Ever read the Bible?  Thou shall not commit adultery.  However it also says not to drink in excess.  Both problems could be bad for a marriage but adultery could cause temparary insanity in some cases.  And not all Russians and Ukrainians are o.k. with infidelity.  One lady wrote me and described why her last relationship ended and told about walking in on her boyfriend and said that what she saw horrified her so much etc. etc. etc...

[WmGo]

... in response to Re: RW/RM Russian Life, posted by Ramblin on Dec 8, 2001

Skynyrd rules!!

Yes, adultry cuts the soul of the non-offending spouse like a two edged knife. It is a direct and personal offense. It says to the innocent spouse that they have little or no value. There is an element of lack of respect and consideration. It is in fact a form of homocide - spiritual homocide of the marital covenant. And it is also an invasion into the home; not necessarily a physical invasion (although that is sometimes involved) but clearly a form of spiritual assault on the soul of the innocent spouse; an assault by both the betrayor and their "lover."

Back to Skynyrd - "I Never Dreamed" is one of their best IMHO.

[Jimmy]

... in response to Re: RW/RM Russian Life, posted by Ramblin on Dec 8, 2001

I want everyone to know that I don't think adultery has little effect on the RW/RM.  I just think it doesn't have the same distain that we feel in the US.  Usually a wedding ring on an AM finger will keep him safe from being flirted and hit on in the US.  Here I believe it is somewhat different.  Many men in the US will hide the fact they are married if out for the night looking for a one night stand.  It doesn't need to be hidden here.

One RW I know well told me that she and her husband had many extra-marital affairs during their 20 year marriage.  He revealed his affairs to her and made no secret of them.  She divorced him never revealing her own and totally blamed the loss of marriage on him.  But she really didn't divorce him for the affairs.  She divorced him because he drank too much and he did.  In fact she hated him for it.  Yet she felt no guilt about her own affairs and running around.  If it was in secret and didn't hurt him with the truth about her affairs then she had no guilt.

What I am trying to say is that if the truth, the sincere truth is not known, then no one is hurt.  This was a way of life for these people for many decades.  Avoidance at all costs since you could get a very unjust punishment for the truth.  The system made them this way.  I couldn't blame them either.  You would do the same under the same kind of justice system.

Now in your search for one of these ladies you might find that the sincere truth is buried deep.  It may take you a long time to get to it.  Take your US value system and make adjustments.  That's my advice.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine, Kiev Oblast