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Author Topic: Oh... So now I am the PROBLEM!?  (Read 22701 times)
Howard
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« on: December 09, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

This first part is for Lori.

Our Courtship was about eighteen months and we were engaged for a year before her visa was approved.  We have been married since July 15th, 2000 and she has been here June 8th of that year.  I had no inclination that anything was out of the ordinary until right before she was supposed to get on the plane and come here, but I was told it was just "cold feet" and when I told her that if she didn't want to she did not have to, she said that she did and that everything would be ok.  I have tried everything in the year and a half we have been married to communicate with her, but she remains quiet and sullen.  I have asked if she wanted a divorce and to go home and she said no, that she will be ok.  There have been good times, but they are always followed by times of silence and we are both to blame.

To everyone...

"Let this girl off the hook"  What the F^$% do you people think I am trying to do!?  I am NOT the one you need to be pleading with to let her off the hook.  I am NOT trying to make her return to me because I feel I own her, love her or because my house is a mess.  I am trying to get her to come home--here to me--because she seems to have little other choice and because, after all, she is a human being and one that I happen to care a great deal about.  SOMEONE NEEDS TO HELP HER!!!  No one there seems to have any interest in what Ayesa or I want.  Someone has got to give a D&*^ about her and care about her mental well being.  Like it or not, I am the one that she married and she has no one else to turn to.  Am I happy about this betrayal?  What do you people think?  Am I honored that I am the one that has wasted more years of his life trying just to be happy, while inadvertantly making someone else miserable?  Of Course NOT!

How do you think that it feels to have your wife tell you that she is miserable with you and feels that she will die if she has to stay with you?  Can you even F&%^(%g imagine how that feels?

Do I not seem intelligent?  How can you imagine that just letting her stay in Manila hasn't run through my mind?  JESUS CHRIST, what kind of self absorbed monster do you people think I am?  I am procastinating in having my nervous breakdown, to try and help my wife who is largely innocent in this deception, from all the information that I have been able to gather.  I am putting my LIFE, my thoughts of happiness, my needs, my aspirations for a loving wife and family on hold to try and do what I feel is right for Ayesa and myself.  How is that not clear?

Do I seem emotionless?  Would you rather I was just a hatred spewing ignoramous who doesn't give a S&*^ about anyone besides my self?  As I have said A THOUSAND times, this is the way I deal with things.  Maybe I am overly philisophical.  Maybe I come off as "Cold".  Maybe even a bit self-righteous, but if I have a nervous break down then who will try and make this thing right?  You guys?

Hey if it makes you feel better to take a sentence or two out of context and IGNORE my posts in their entirety, nit pick away.

It's easy to sit back and assume that I am just an unrealistic, sad, lonely man who is trying to control a mixed up girl and make her do things against her will, because I am not able to find an American Woman to put up with my omnipresent flaws, but that's not the case.  

Am I a fool?  Probably.  I was foolish enough to think I could find love.  Once again I was proven wrong, but don't cry for me, I will find a way to survive.  My concern IS that confused, scared little girl.  Whether this is what I signed on for or not, she is MY RESPONSIBILITY.  Her parents will write her off in a second, look at what they have done to her!

I'm the problem?  I'm the one forcing her to come back here?  Get real!  I have never once forced her to do anything and I am not forcing her to do anything now.  I am simply offering to help her when no one else has the power to.  I may not even have the power to, but I am willing to try.  

I'm sorry that it disappoints some here that I can't be the Ugly American and just ignore the problem, hoping that it will go away.  There is no painless way to deal with this.  There is no Bankrupcy(sp?) court to make this go away for a few hundred dollars and simply letting her stay in Manila and divorcing her for abandonment doesn't help solve her problems, it only ADDS to them.

Maybe my posts are over-analytical, but I am trying to be realistic in my posts, so that they aren't ignored or discounted like the "All Filipinas make GREAT wives" or the "All Filipina's are Gold Diggers" posts that constantly surface and resurface here.  The venting helps me think clearly and hopefully will warn others of the possiblity of failure, that I was positive didn't exist when I was starting out.  Was I naive?  Ummmmm... I'm thinkin'...  Are there lurkers right now that are arrogant enough to think that this could NEVER happen to them?  I'd be willing to bet there are.  I know how I was a few years ago.

Again, I am not applying for Sainthood--if Ray wants to submit my name there's nothing I can do to stop him :c)--nor will I be a Martyr.  I am doing what I, with my obviously limited intelligence and flawed motives, feel is best for my wife.  Why?  Because she is a human being and regardless of how I have been hurt because of her, I do care about her.  If my only concern was my happiness, I'd already be lining up the next ex-Mrs. Howard.

I consider each and every one of you to be friends, allies and brothers--and sisters--in our seemingly endless pursuit of happiness and peace of mind, but I am very upset at how some of you are able to twist my words and their meaning and find a way to make me feel like a bad guy in this.  If that was not your intention, it is still the way you have made me feel.  

No apologies are necessary, just try and show some compassion.  I have no problem with anyones' honesty or frankness, in fact I advocate and appreciate it.  I just wanted to clearly state my case and stop the charcater assination, real or perceived.

H

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Don J
Guest
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Oh... So now I am the PROBLEM!?, posted by Howard on Dec 9, 2001

Howard:
I hate to see what this situation has done to you, with the Holidayís approaching it has to be extremely hard for you to handle this. Early on in your problems I suggested that you send her home to let her work things out in her own mind whatever the outcome, I only wish I would have been
more clear that I thought she had already made up her mind on what she wanted to do. I canít recollect one post from you that seemed upbeat and positive about your relationship since she has arrived, she was sad and depressed most of the time and found little about living here that she liked.
The misery she expresses over the phone leads me to think that if she could turn back time and never had gotten this far into it she would do so. I believe she truly does feel bad in what she has put you through and genuinely is miserable for being responsible for your pain. You have done
everything you can to try and make this work, no one can ever dispute that.

Not that she deserves any breaks here, but I feel that if you want to help her heal her pains, it would be best if you would explain that you will let her out of this relationship if that is what she wants. It time for you both to start the healing process as hard as it will be.

I truly feel bad for you both, I canít tell you how often you are in my thoughts. I feel I know the agony you are going through only when I but myself in your shoes if it where I experiencing your situation with my wife who I love so dearly. It is very hard to let go, yet all signs seem to point in the same direction. You will get through this Big Guy, with the thoughts and love of those who care about you.

My thoughts and prayers for a happier life and peace for you both will be with you always. May the Christmas season help to bring you some hope for the future.

God Bless!
Don J

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Bubba
Guest
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Oh... So now I am the PROBLEM!?, posted by Howard on Dec 9, 2001

I have been reading about your adventure for several years now and it surely sounds as if Mom set both of you up for failure.  If what you posted is correct and I believe what you wrote then she was in no way ready for the situation she found herself in.  Now the family is saying hey get back in there, we're counting on you.

I think the EASY way out would be to just write her off in Manilla but I have to admire your determination to see to it that she gets the help needed.  I hope with some outside help the two of you can work it out and if she comes back that is one possible outcome.  No matter how it works out I wish you well and I still have to admire all the work you are putting in to make sure your wife ends up ok also.

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BubbaG
Guest
Yup
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Oh... So now I am the PROBLEM!?, posted by Howard on Dec 9, 2001

Actually Howard, there has been a rather constant stream throughout your posts.  I am sure I will get slammed for this and perhaps be labeled a "troll," however, you are part of the problem.  Your constant take on this is poor me.  You have alluded to past failed relationships and your perception has been that you were too trusting, too honest and ended up getting abused.  Maybe the whole problem isn't the rest of the world.  

I wish you the best, I really do, but I feel that you derive some sort of needed nutritional requirement from the sympathy you receive here.  Buck up man!  When you step in crap, don't blame the dog just clean your shoe off and next time watch where you step.  

There is a wealth of fantastic advice on this board and some very knowledgeable posters and very, very supportive people.  I don't mean to sound as if I am critical of the MOB route.  I just think that until you take a very good and truthful look at yourself, than history is destined to repeat itself whether it be in PI or USA or Bora Bora.  Stop being the victim.

Sorry my first post was a negative one.  I really hope everyone finds happiness and fulfillment in their search.

BubbaG

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Howard
Guest
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Yup, posted by BubbaG on Dec 11, 2001

Bubba,

Sympathy is not what I am after, but it is important to me what people think of me.  I am willing to entertain any insight into this situation, even if it involves admitting that I might be to blame for my own problems.  All I am trying to do is get my mind cleared so that I can move on with my life, with or without my wife.  Usually, I dont bother trying to argue, but it bothers me when I hand someone an apple and they berate me for giving them an orange.

Sure, I admit I'm feeling a little sorry for myself right now, but I certainly don't think that the world is against me.  If I gave that impression, it is incorrect.

Not that I am dwelling on this, I am trying to move on, but if I am not a victim than what am I?  The only thing I can see that I did wrong was being foolish enough to believe that I could find someone who would be willing to spend their life with me, in this manner.  Yeah, I was sucked in by the psuedo-romance.  Sure, I thought I was in love--when actually I was probably more in love with the "idea" of being in love.  Yes, I was naive enough to think that I could build a relationship on a two week visit and two years of letter writing.  But, now all I am trying to do is take responsibility for my actions and handle the situation properly and in accordance with my nagging conscience.  I don't see how that's playing the victim, but you are more than welcomed to share your opinion.

Thanks for the encouragment

H

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Tim
Guest
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Yup, posted by Howard on Dec 11, 2001

Howard, you and I go way back, even if our friendship is just cyber. Your situation is the main reason I've emerged here again from retirement, because quite frankly what has happened to you jolts me like a kick in the crotch. It could have been me, or Don2222, or Tom Neal, or any of the other old hands here.

In that context, let me say this: it's ok to wrestle with your conscience, and to let it move you on a course of action right now, because I know you feel like you're drifting and you need something to keep the gears lubed. Your conscience not only provides this but it cements you to reality when things can feel fleeting, and let you hold on to your honor. In my book, you don't have a problem with conscience.

I'm more concerned with your statement that "it's important what people think of me". I don't want to blow this out of context, but you really should shed that attitude right now. You are on the verge (and some will say passed the point) of taking drastic action to rectify a major component of your life, and the last thing you need holding you back is worry about what other's will think. It is your life -- your situation -- and only YOU can save it. All we can do is sit on the sidelines and coach.

IMHO, you need to do some deep soul searching (I know, you have already, but do some more!) and define a new paradigm for yourself. Tear out all the old stuff that was negative and replace it with positive change. I have been where you are now (not exactly, but close), and only by finding a new paradigm was I able to survive.

You can too. Use one of your biggest assets -- your overall positive outlook -- to help you in finding this.

Good luck,

Tim

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Howard
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: Yup, posted by Tim on Dec 11, 2001

T-Bone,

I know :c)  I know you know me and yes, we are friends.  I also know you and know where your coming from.

I am tired, exhausted really.  Usually I spend a long time writing, editing, re-reading, etc... before posting something "Chronicle" in length.  Usually, I am calm when writing and proofing, like I am right now :c)

I honestly believe that every single poster here has my best interest, my wife's best interest or both in mind when they post replies to the jibberish I have been posting lately.  I am less thick-skinned than normal at the moment and I think my biggest mistake has been letting some of the posts, even though their well meant, get under my skin.  While angry I have been trying to post coherent clarifications.  I think I am creating more confusion for myself and those you care :c)

Something that I try to never do is to take things out of context.  I find it very annoying to post several paragraphs and to have someone pick a sentence, focus on the one thing that might not have been the clearest thought and then get on me for that, ignoring the rest of my statement.  (I am NOT complaining to you, I am trying to tell you where my head is at :c)  While most of you have been nothing but supportive and have been providing valuable insight--BTW Thanks for the INS Info, that's something I would never have known without your detective work :c)--some have been getting under my skin by passing judgement on me, my motives, etc... without knowing me.  I'm certainly not saying that I don't want serious input from newer guys on the board, I am just saying that a few of the replies have been a bit overboard in my opinion.  

Anyone who knows me, like you, knows well where my motivation lies.  Anyone who doesn't can look in that archives, like I or many of the others here would, before passing judgment on my character or lack thereof.

What I meant in saying that people's opinion of me is important to me, is that; it's important to me that people here, on P/L understand why I am doing what I am doing.  I think if you read more than one of my posts it's pretty clear.  Personally I never, or at least I don't think i have ever, jumped on someone like I feel I have been jumped on a few times recently.  Because I feel like I am respected and even liked here, I take exception to it when I probably should just blow it off.  I am hard headed and will make myself crazy trying to make someone who has no interest in what's really happening understand things from my perspective.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it's a losing battle :c)

You guys (and a few gals :c) here are an important sounding board for me to figure this whole thing out and to vent when I feel comfortable venting nowhere else.  Who else would even understand what I am talking about besides others who can relate :c)  I will not be run off this board by some thoughtless posts.  I have paid my dues, I belong here :c)  I guess, lately, I have been reacting instead of thinking before reacting like I usually do.

In the end, I will collate all of the information that I can gather on this and I will make my own decisions based on what's best for me and what I perceive to be best for my wife.  No one, in any facet of my life, will be able to get me to move against my conscience when my mind is made up.  That's a promise :c)  Popular or unpopular, I will do what I feel is best in my heart.  Those who truely care about me will stand behind me, whether they agree with me or not.

For the record, I have no problem with anyone whose opinion differs from mine.  I welcome and appreciate all opinions in a discussion, which is what we having here in my opinion :c)  I just have a problem with people that I feel don't know a thing about me as a human being, my wife or our situation deciding that they know what's going on from a few paragraphs and then talking down to me.

Don't worry, old friend :c), I am thinking clearly.  I just get a little upset at times and don't show my most diplomatic face here lately :c)

Thanks for your concern, help and suppoprt!!!  Tell Wendy that I think of the two of you often and that you are always in my prayers :c)

H

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greg
Guest
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Oh... So now I am the PROBLEM!?, posted by Howard on Dec 9, 2001

it's never a good idea to chase after a Woman, she should at least go half way. From what I've learned about the Filipino culture is that they disrepect weakness in a Man. You need to back off and allow her to at least make some kinda effort to show You that she seriously want you back. Otherwise You will just bring Misery to the both of You by begging her to return to You. Good Luck with whatever You do. Read Larry's Posts You can learn something about your own situation. Mr Peabody
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Bob S.
Guest
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to In My Book, posted by greg on Dec 10, 2001

"From what I've learned about the Filipino culture is that they disrepect weakness in a Man."

Isn't that pretty much the same in _every_ culture?  Show me one where weenie weakness is actually looked upon as a sexy desireable characteristic in a man...

But anyway, I doubt Howard has any real expectations of being able to salvage anything out of this situation.  It sounds to me like he's just trying to get his "wife" out of the high pressure situation she's in now surrounded by her family.  Once she's on the plane, they'll leave her alone, having done their job.  And once she's here, Howard and she can get a quickie divorce and she can return to Manila without her family being the wiser.  OR they can concoct some story that will allow her to save face if she does decide to return to her own family.
In any case, the situation has apparently evolved into a Father/Daughter relationship (one I was all too familiar with myself and most relieved to extricate myself from).  And as a Father-figure, Howard seems to be doing the best he can to resolve this situation and get his "daughter-figure" on her own two feet so she can chose her own path in life.  It will allow some peaceful closure.  Then he can return to his search for a woman willing to love him enough to meet him half-way.

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Jeff S
Guest
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: In My Book, posted by Bob S. on Dec 10, 2001

"Show me one (a culture) where weenie weakness is actually looked upon as a sexy desireable characteristic in a man."

Late 20th and early 21st century America - at least by the more vocal women. Shocked)

-- Jeff S.

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Bob S.
Guest
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: In My Book, posted by Jeff S on Dec 10, 2001

Yeah, a lot of AW today are insecure in the presence of any hint of masculinity and prefer to surround themselves with effeminate or easily manipulated men.  But do they really respect such men?  And in the end, when it comes down to selecting a breeding partner, aren't they just as likely to ditch all of the Nice Guys they have around them and seek out their fantasy "psychotically dangerous Bad Boy"?  (The sad/humorous part of the soap opera is when the Bad-Boy-chaser gets knocked up and realizes her fantasy Bad-Boy is not going to magically transform into a dutiful and supportive father/husband.  I'd have to use all my fingers and toes to count the number of times I've witnessed that little melodrama.)
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Lori
Guest
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Weenie men and the women who love them....., posted by Bob S. on Dec 11, 2001

Your conception the the American Woman comes from soap oprahs?? I don't know where the heck you guys find these women. Maybe you need to stop looking for the perfect body or the perfect face, and find someone who actually HAS a brain.
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Bob S.
Guest
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: ack, posted by Lori on Dec 11, 2001

I'm talking about real life flesh and blood people I know, friends, aquaintences, even family members I've watched make such blatently obvious bad choices, it could've come from a script from Lifetime Channel's movie of the week. (Two more women added just this month! One that escaped an abusive situation, another whose slimy husband started cheating on her with his ex.)

Though I will admit, women do out-grow their "dangerous bad-boy" chasing phase long before men out-grow their "hottie in a short skirt" chasing phase. ;-)

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Jeff S
Guest
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Weenie men and the women who love them....., posted by Bob S. on Dec 11, 2001

I saw a survey of what traits (American) women listed as sexy in men and can you believe it, one of them was "Dangerous." Incredible! Yet another reason we choose to look overseas.
-- Jeff S.
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greg
Guest
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: In My Book, posted by Jeff S on Dec 10, 2001

hehehe..Yeah AWs want a weak Man to control and boss around lol...You really gave me a big laugh hehehe
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