What a Nightmare

[panther]

After my wife left me after calling the police on me I thought things were fairly under control.  Heard from her after Thanksgiving and she brought my daughter over to the house.  We talked and I paid her $500 child support for December.  I said there was a chance we could get professional marriage counseling and work this out. (Even the divorce books say counseling should be attempted)  She said she would think about it.  Called today so I could see my daughter.  She said I could see her Friday as she had a counseling appointment then.  I asked her about our situation and she said she thought that was clear.  I asked her to explain and she said she wanted a divorce. I said OK. She said she wanted me to pay for an apartment for her which would be more than the child support.  I said I didn't bring her over her to pay for two households.  This is beyond my means.  She called me irresponsible.  I pointed out most men don't even pay child support until the court orders them to do so.  She wasn't impressed and said I should find an apartment for them.  The problem is she applied for welfare (which would probably put liens on my house) but they turned her down because her visa status is not right (conditional residency) to receive it.  I said she should just stay at her friends house where she is at now but she says they have problems too.  She has 2 families here in California and they called the relatives in the PI earlier when we first separated and said that they would take care of her.  She now says they can't and it is my responsibility. I said I just don't know what to do as I don't have any money (looking for a job) and asked her what the social worker thought should be done.  She said the social worker said she should stay where she is now.  She doesn't want to do that.  She can't get apartment because she has no credit and wants me to help her in that area which I didn't refuse to do. (I did get her a visa check card earlier) She wants to go back to the PI so her Dad can take care of them but I know that is no good because almost everytime she talks to them they say there is a money problem.  I know the money is not managed wisely there also.  I also am not going to let my daughter go to the Philippines because I don't think I will see her again if I do that. Now I have to file for joint custody when I file for divorce to keep my daughter here (originally I was going to file for Order To Show Cause).  If I had lots of money I would just help them get an apartment but I am anticipating a large income decrease due to a job change and really needed to be saving money now.  It was going to be tough even if we stayed together because of bills. Even the Family Law facilitator said the mother is expected to support the baby but yet she hasn't looked for a job and quit a job after one day because she didn't like it. She came over here as a professional woman with an earning potential of $100,000 but she didn't pass one of her board exams here and didn't go back to take the re-test. Having the baby put a lot of pressure on her.  I think her dream of not realizing her profession here and wanting to visit sick relatives caused her to transfer her frustations to me and thus we are in this state.  I don't think any of our problems were above and beyond the typical marriage problems  but her overreacting by running out so often and calling the police (ill founded and the police thought so too) doomed this marriage.
I didn't bring someone over here to support two households.  She needs to get a job.  I've run out of rabbits to pull out of my hat. I would just like to hear some other opinions as I am just overwhelmed.

[Mars]

... in response to What a Nightmare, posted by panther on Dec 5, 2001

Quit pulling rabbits out of your hat Dude and try see her for what she really is. Get your kid...see an attorney.....Your child is the only leverage she has with you. I say this because by the time your problem is over, you will not like your wife very much anymore. She will be forever pronouncing you "irresponsible" every time she places a demand on you. Get your kid and pronounce HER irresponsible because that is exactly what she is. I am not trying to be mean spirited, vicious, burn anyone at the stake nor am I racist. I have just been down a similar road and the only difference was I took action immediately for my childs sake. Had I not acted, I would be one sorry fellow today. A woman like your your wife, as you have described her, is nothing but no good and self serving and she will use you until there is nothing left to use. Have no illusions about working things out amicably because the only way that will happen is if you hand over your life savings to her and give her all the money you earn in the future....and even after that, you will be considered "irresponsible". My advice, as it has been all along.....Put down the top hat and rabbit in your two hands and put on some boxing gloves. If you don't, you will recieve more bloody noses from her than you care to deal with. It's your life and also your daughters. Think about it....she is labeling you now as irresponsible. Your daughter is too young to understand now but eventually she will understand what her mother is saying and then she too will begin to believe that her Daddy is irresponsible. You know you're not....I know you're not but do you want your daughter to think that about you? The way I see it there is a battle coming...I would prepare. Get your kid and she is powerless to harm you. Good Luck Panther!!!

No flames please...this is just my point of view.

[panther]

... in response to Re: What a Nightmare, posted by Mars on Dec 6, 2001

Thanks Mars.  You're right: it's time to put on the boxing gloves.  I'm going back to the Family Law Facilitator this afternoon after I complete the divorce papers.  Actually  a lot of this falls outside of the legal realm.  My wife needs therapy for her sake and the baby's sake. The sudden mood swings, threats, and irrational behavior demand help.  I will share my concerns with the facilitator and hopefully she can direct me to someone who can address this issue.  Now I have to see my daughter and avoid confrontations with the wife infront of the daughter.  We'll see how it goes.

[kevin]

... in response to Re: What a Nightmare, posted by Mars on Dec 6, 2001

Panther is going through an unthinkable but real period in his life.  His integriity, dignity and welfare are being turned upside down for the sake of some crazy woman's gain.  His daughter is merely a pawn.

It is just extremely ugly, but this is a distinct brand of evil in todays world that, more often than not, goes on unrecognized except by those affected.  And that is exactly what Panther's "mahal" is trying to exploit.  She knows that she has a good chance of pulling her stunts with impunity because of the way institutional systems (immigration, welfare, courts, etc.) typically work and that by virtue of being a woman from another country she might garner sympathy and thus support for entities that can pull strings in her favor.  It hold alot more promise than roobbing a bank for a couple million.

- Kevin

[Howard]

... in response to What a Nightmare, posted by panther on Dec 5, 2001

P~

FOA, I'm very sorry.  Maybe your wife and mine are related :c)  Maybe now is not the time for humor, but that's how I deal with my situation.  If I don't make sarcastic jokes, I might kill someone :c)

I think what you need to do first is somehow document--via a 3rd person you absolutely trust, a notary, your lawyer, a recorder, recording a phone conversation, etc...--your wife's refusal to seek counselling.  It's good that you keep offering, whether it's posturing or if you're really interested in working things out.  Always be willing to work things out.

I would give your wife two choices.  I would also make sure that they are documented, via your lawyer, registered mail, notarized, etc...  I would explain what you are saying.  First of all that you cannot afford to support two entire households.  The choices I would suggest are that she could return to live with you and try to work things out slowly, saving you money and giving you more constant access to your daughter or surrender your daughter to you and you'll give her a ticket back to the Philippines.  

If she will not accept either of these reasonable offers, I would find the biggest scum bag lawyer I could to represent you and have him get serious with her.  I understand she has rights, but what she is doing to you is a crime.  There has got to be some protection for you and, more importantly, your daughter!

From personal expirience, being a nice guy gets you nowhere.  I know it's easy to be tough sitting behind a computer, but I know that you know what I am going through and I sware to you that's what I would be doing.

I wish you luck!  e-mail me privately, if you wanna discuss things in a less public forum

H

[panther]

... in response to Nightmares, I understand..., posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

Thank you very much Howard for your suggestions.  I know you are going through hell too.  I am really afraid to bring her back now because of her behavior.  This thing keeps escalating. Calling the police was completely unwarranted.  I am afraid she will do something even worse if I get her back here.  At least now I have some peace of mind with her out of the house.  She is very manipulative and knows how to upset me.  We would both have to go through some therapy or marital counseling before we considered living under the same roof again. I try and look at both sides of the situation and she is in a bind also.  She doesn't have a car. She doesn't have credit.  She doesn't have a job. She did have a job for one day before we separated but she didn't like it and didn't even go back to get her paycheck the next day.  She has a sister here but didn't get along with them and left to this friend's house.  Now she says the friends have problems and she doesn't want to stay there.  She has other friends she can stay with but she wants her private place.  My basic opinion is you take the help offered to you by friends until you get on your feet.  I used my resources up visiting her in the Philippines and then sending money over there until I paid for her to come here. We planned on living frugally on my lower paying job until she got her into her profession but that fell through. This all happened at the worse possible time:  the first time in over 30 years when I don't have a steady job. It seems like every time I think I do the right thing for her or come up with a viable suggestion she comes up with more road blocks for me.  If I can get a job soon I will be better able to evaluate what I can do for her while still being fair to my situation. You are right about being a nice guy: with some people it gets you nowhere. I will file for divorce asking for joint custody and let the court mediators sort this mess out.  Bottom line: my daughter doesn't leave this country.

[Bob S.]

... in response to Re: Nightmares, I understand..., posted by panther on Dec 6, 2001

Remember, men typically get big-time shafted in custody hearings.  Judges would rather give full custody to a drug-using skanky ho rather than to a male.  Try to document her repeated suicide attempts, continued refusal to seek counseling, refusal to seek employment.  Then go for FULL custody.  Then maybe, just MAYBE the judge will deign to allow you occasional weekend visits.

Also, if your soon-to-be ex already has her conditional resident status, she can start to establish her own credit history.  Since she is officially a "permanent resident" (even if she is only "conditional"), she can apply for a credit card through her bank, Capital One, a department store, and so on.  But do NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow your name to be added.  She would apply for it under her name alone and it would be her responsibility only.  If she gets off her duff and finds a job, she might be able to start with around a $500 credit limit (the companies like it when their card holders can actually pay off their debts).

[panther]

... in response to Joint custody ain't enough..., posted by Bob S. on Dec 6, 2001

I was told by the Family Law Facilitator that with the Joint Custody and my request in the petition for the baby not to leave the state that this would be enough to keep her here.  Plus I won't sign for the passport which is required by both parents until age 14. The key is she can't have sole custody.  I have to have some kind of custody. I already got my wife a bank account and visa check card in her name only, months ago. You're right she needs to get a job.  That's the key.  I just can't do this whole thing myself.

[Mars]

... in response to Re: Nightmares, I understand..., posted by panther on Dec 6, 2001

Panther....those court mediators, in my opinion are a joke, especially if you get one that is a man hating woman. If that happens, you are finished. Ask for full custody. That woman is a threat to your kids well being. Don't leave it up to a bunch of objectively minded people to make a life decision on what is best for you daughter. Persuade their way of thinking about the matter any way you can. Start gathering any evidence you can to prove that your wife is nuts, out there, incompetent, a danger to the child etc. Has she ever tried to commit suicide? Get the  hospital records. In trouble? Get the police records. If you can't get them, find a warrior attorney who can. It is up to you to gather the facts and present them to these "muddle-aters". The bottom line is, those muddle-ators won't sort jack out for you. Heck....half of them can't sort their own lives out. Be pro-active... The whole ordeal will turn out like you want it too but you have to make it happen according to your design. When I think of your daughter with a nut like that, mother or no mother, I get very upset. Remember...the court will look at one thing: The welfare of the child...nothing else. They don't care if she cheats on you or anything. The child...YOUR child. You are her Knight and shining armor Dude....go and save her.

[Bubba]

... in response to Re: Nightmares, I understand..., posted by panther on Dec 6, 2001

Get a GOOD Imigration Lawyer FAST.  Drop your sponsorship of her with INS.  She can use the child as a bargaining chip to stay here without you being on the hook for it.  You might talk to the Lawyer about first visiting your child and placing her with a third party (unkown to her) so when you file all your papers the child can't be hurt or taken to PI without your permission.  If she gets the child there you will play H*LL getting her back.

[panther]

... in response to Re: Re: Nightmares, I understand..., posted by Bubba on Dec 6, 2001

Thanks.  The child going there is not an option for me.  Checked with the passport.  Both parents have to sign for child until age 14.  I am not signing.  I will do everything I can legally to keep the child from returning to the Philippines.

[Bubba]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Nightmares, I understand..., posted by panther on Dec 6, 2001

Just because you won't sign doesn't mean she can't commit fraud and get someone else to sign as you and get a passport.  Once she leaves you've had it, I would make sure she isn't left alone with the child EVER.  Look at all the horror stories of foreign parents who took the child out of the country illegally they still keep them.

[Mars]

... in response to But Thing to consider.., posted by Bubba on Dec 6, 2001

Good advice Bubba!

[donb2222]

... in response to But Thing to consider.., posted by Bubba on Dec 6, 2001

Signatures mean almost nothing nowdays.  It would be very easy for her to forge your signature and get it notarized or whatever it needs.  I am a notary myself.  It was nothing at all for me to get the stamp.
She can forge documents.  Do not expect the government to take care of you. You must be pro-active and seek sole custody.
My neighbor was married to an unfit mother.  He fought for sole custody and got their daughter, and the house.
It was the house the wife grew up in, they had purchased it from her parents.
He now has the daughter, the house, and is  married to one of his ex-wifes co-workers, he seems very happy.

[Mars]

... in response to Signatures, posted by donb2222 on Dec 6, 2001

Yes.........I have sole custody too. It can be accomplished.