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Author Topic: I said... (Ray and all)  (Read 22996 times)
Howard
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« on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

...that I would wait another two weeks before I consider any irrevokable actions.  If that's not exactly what I said, it's what I meant :c)  There is no harm in finding out what I need to do if the time comes for me to do it.

I have been more than patient.  I have been more than accomidating.  If this is the way she chooses to repay my kindness, then I am left with no alternative.

What's my rush?  Ten years ago I began looking for the right person to spend the rest of my life with.  I was looking for a wife who could love me and children to raise and cherish.  When I found my wife three and a half years ago, I thought I was done looking and could now concentrate on our future together.  My entire life, I have been selfless enough to put my needs on hold to help and/or support others, only to have them crap on me when it was time for my needs to take center stage.  I have done everything in my power to make my wife happy, while she has done very little to make the marriage enjoyable for me.  If to be rid of me is what she wants, obviuosly it is if she has chosen not to return to me, then why would I begin refusing her wishes now?

Maybe some of you have kids already and are simply looking for a companion.  Maybe you don't and have no want or need of children of your own.  All I want is a family.  If Ayesa doesn't want to be a part of that why should I wait one second longer than I have to?

My emotions swing right now from depression to anger, but before I make a decision I will be thinking clearly, I promise.

I have waited for my wife to come around long enough, don't you think?

H

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Honey
Guest
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I said... (Ray and all), posted by Howard on Nov 20, 2001

That she is running from her family and the increditable burden that they have put on her.  She now is expected to find ways to support her family and she obviously wants too.  But at the same time she doen't want to burden you.  So she choose to stay in Manila expecting it to be a place where she can be near those like her and she can earn fairly good money.

Bear

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SteveG
Guest
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I said... (Ray and all), posted by Howard on Nov 20, 2001

Howard,
 I have been keeping up the last few days with your situation and am sorry to hear what’s going on with you  and Ayessa.   You've already received so much advice I can't offer much more except to paraphrase your own  words from a year or so ago.  

 I remember when you were visiting Ayessa in the Philippines you wrote more than once that she didn't show much affection towards you.  You even emphasized this was true after you became engaged.   I'm not trying to say "I told you so" but rather hoping to help you more accurately evaluate what Ayessa is bringing to the table in this marriage.   It all boils down to one question in my mind, "Do you think she loves you?"  Do her eyes light up and show excitement when she sees you when you come home after work?  Did they ever?  When a man OR woman loves somebody, they can't hold it in and everybody around them know it's real.  I'll even go out further on a limb and say that Love for another person can't be faked over any significant period of time IF that person(the one being 'used') is willing to see the obvious red flags that show they are not loved and move on.  

  I know darned well that it's extremely hard when you have high hopes with a woman and find out she doesn't love you the way you love her, but groveling after her sure isn't going to make you happy either.   You don't have to answer this here in public, but if I were in your shoes her love or lack thereof for you - and that alone would control which path I chose at this point.   If she doesn't love you, then why make both yourselves miserable.  Marriage should be something to celebrate, not endure!

                                  SteveG

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donb2222
Guest
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Howard, posted by SteveG on Nov 20, 2001

Almost everyone here knows that most Filipinas are not affectionate in public.  But, my experience, and what I have heard from others is that most of them are very affectionate in private.

Almost every arguement that Vilma and I had in the beginning
was due to the fact that I was fearful of being married for the first time, and that I was afraid of being used.
My insecurities would come out in the form of an arguement.

But, after I calmed down I would look in Vilmas eyes and I could see that she loved me.  When Vilma hugs me it feels like she is trying to snuggle in under my skin and be a part of me.

Marrying someone from a different culture and country is the most difficult thing I have ever done. If I did not see Vilmas love in her eyes, and feel it in her touch, I never could have had the strength to marry her.

When Howard first started writing that Ayessa was not affectionate it really hurt me inside.  From everything that Howard has written I feel like he is a truly wonderful, loving , and giving person.  It hurt me that a person such as him would be denied the love that he deserves.

Howard,  you do deserve to have the love that you give returned to you.  Please do not feel that you are not deserving of love, because you are, you really are.

If you can remember how Ayessa would look at you with love in her eyes, then I say do whatever you need to do to be with her.

If you do not have that memory, then I think you know what you need to do.

Don

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Tim
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I said... (Ray and all), posted by Howard on Nov 20, 2001

Hi Big H. I dropped by the board and caught up on your story. You know my advice from the private email I sent you.
I decided to make a public post here to follow-up on some thoughts that have been floating around in my mind since yesterday. It's got to do with the immigration process so I'm posting it here to educate everyone.

I think she will eventually attempt to resurface in your life. Here's why. She's had a taste of life in America, and even though she may not have liked it, she can't argue that she can make money here. Maybe not alot, but more than in the RP. She will eventually decide to come back for this reason, and since she's got the conditional green card she can re-enter the USA anytime she wants. She doesn't have to contact you when she does this, but I think she will. The reason ? She needs you to complete her Adjustment of Status and remove the conditions on her green card.

The status she has now is "conditional permanent resident". Her legal status will expire in 2 years unless she files a form with the INS to remove the conditions. She must do this within 90 days of her 2 year anniversary of receiving the I-551 stamp in her passport. There are two ways she can accomplish this. The easy (and cheap) path is for her to reconcile with you and make the filing with you as the husband/petitioner. The hard way (and expensive) is for her to file for removal of conditions as a hardship case based on abuse. This would be hard to prove if you've been separated for months/years (side note: make sure you keep evidence of the entire period she has been separated from you).

Now it's obvious she's way too immature to understand all this right now, but in the months ahead I think it's likely she will get "educated" by her "friends" over there, the kind who know how the system works. And as time passes, she'll slowly figure out her best future lies back here -- and you will NOT be a factor, except in getting her permanent residency (sorry to be harsh). Just think about it. If you were a citizen of the Phillipines and you had legal entry into the USA, would you stay over there ? Eventually she will realize this.

I think the odds are good that sometime before the 2 year anniversary she'll contact you -- out-of-the-blue -- with some lame story and that sweet voice coaxing you to let her come home. When this happens you will have a big decision to make. Choose wisely, because after she gets the conditions removed from her green card, she doesn't need you at all anymore.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I thought it my duty as your friend to warn you of this scenario.

Even if she does come back to you in the next 2 weeks I would be leery of her motivations. You are a good guy and don't need to put up with this kind of behavior. Did you marry a grown woman or a 4th grader ? You deserve so much better !

Regards, Tim

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Stephen
Guest
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I think you will hear from her.....event..., posted by Tim on Nov 20, 2001

asdf
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Tim
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I think you will hear from her.....event..., posted by Tim on Nov 20, 2001

I made a little oversight in my first post and wanted to correct it.

I did more research on this scenario at the Doc Steen website. I was wrong on one point. In the event of a divorce, a conditional permanent resident can IMMEDIATELY (yes, even before 2 years) petition themself with the I-751 form to remove the conditions on their green card. They can do this EVEN THOUGH no abuse charges were filed, they don't have to prove anything except that they entered into the marriage in good faith. Now bear in mind that because they have to do all the filing (and paying) themself, it is not as easy as just reconciling with their US citizen spouse and going that route to remove the conditions -- but it is just as effective.

So as long as she comes back to the USA before the 2 years are up, she can get the permanent green card regardless of whether she stays married to Howard or they get divorced. Isn't our immigration system just wonderful !

Howard, at this point I really do expect her to show up again. She'll either attempt a reconciliation with you or agree to a divorce. Either way, she gets to stay in the USA permanently, if she wants.

Regards, Tim

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Bob S.
Guest
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Addendum: She will probably come back; s..., posted by Tim on Nov 20, 2001

You are correct that she can self-petition for removal of conditional status even after dissolution of marriage if the couple married in good faith.  But how can you prove good faith?  The INS will be on the lookout for marriage fraud, so she'll be needing some kind of proof.  Usually that could be in the form of a Letter of Good Faith written, signed, and notorized by the ex-husband.  But why would he do that?  If the divorce turns ugly, he could offer it in exchange for favorable terms and an easy settlement.  Otherwise she is S.O.L.  (Though I fear Howard will revert to Nice-Guy-Doormat type and offer it up for nothing if she comes crying to him for help. I hope not, but I can see it happening.)
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donb2222
Guest
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I think you will hear from her.....event..., posted by Tim on Nov 20, 2001

Hi Tim,
 That is probably the most logical advice given yet.
It is really scary how some people will want to work
the system.  Vilma has met a couple of Filipinas here
in Atlanta that I am sure would like to get her under their
wing and destroy our marriage.  Fortunately she tells me of their conversations, and she decides not to have anything
to do with them.
 
 It would be my guess that a Filipinas family might encourage a Filipina to return to America just so she could
work and send money home.  It is unbelieveable the amount of pressure that a Filipina can receive by her family to get out there and work and support the whole family.

 You are right.  Howard is such a nice guy, and I am afraid that things might get even worse.  
Howard does deserve a mature woman to make him happy, not
the mind games that he has endured.

Don

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greg
Guest
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Working the system, posted by donb2222 on Nov 20, 2001

Why do the Filipinas here in the states want to break up Pinay/Kano marriages? Why would those Filipinas in Atlanta want to break up your home?? Thanks
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donb2222
Guest
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Don22222, posted by greg on Nov 21, 2001

Hi Greg,

 I asked Vilma about why one Filipina married to an American
would want to hurt another Filipina married to an American.
Her answer was jealousy.  Yes, that good ol' crab mentality.
Vilma also stated that the same thing happens to Filipinas married to Filipinos.   One woman is jealous because the other woman's husband is richer , more handsome, or younger, etc.  The jealous woman than tries to take the other woman's husband, or at least tries to  damage the other marriage.

I sure would be interested to hear the other Filipinas
answer as to why this happens.

Don

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Mars
Guest
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I think you will hear from her.....event..., posted by Tim on Nov 20, 2001

This guy knows the score...Listen to him.  Maybe that is why she was collecting money from everyone....to do an end run around you.
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Mars
Guest
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I said... (Ray and all), posted by Howard on Nov 20, 2001

,
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panther
Guest
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I said... (Ray and all), posted by Howard on Nov 20, 2001

God, give us the grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things which should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish one from the other.
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HappyIdiot
Guest
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to I said... (Ray and all), posted by Howard on Nov 20, 2001

Howard,

It is difficult for me to address this to you, since I don't know you very well, if at all.  From reading your posts it seems like you are determined to focus on and persue the destruction of your marriage.  I wonder, not knowing your story, how you might have chosen a person with this goal in mind.

Here's the things that really stand out, to me, in what you are saying.  I'd appreciate it if you would read through what I have to say since I am trying to express what I'm seeing because I think if it is true, it might be important for your future happiness to look at these issues.

Here's the first one:
"If this is the way she chooses to repay my kindness, then I am left with no alternative."

 Two things I see in this.  One is that there is a hidden accounting system.  You cannot be kind just for the sake of kindness, but instead it goes into some kind of ledger of indebtedness.  Not everyone keeps a ledger and unless you both play by these kind of rules.  Being calculating and putting someone under obligation is not a kindness at all, even if the initial act appears to be kind.  The second part, about being "left with no alternative", seems like an abdication of responsibility for your actions.  Rather than acknowledging you have a choice and you have made a choice, you are phrasing in a manner to lead people to think that you are only reacting from a powerless position.  This seems very far from the reality of your situation.  The fact is you have not heard from your wife.  A separate fact is you have made the decision to focus on this event and use it as justification to end your marriage.  It is you deciding to end your marriage, not her.  And you are making your decision for your own reasons.

"My entire life, I have been selfless enough to put my needs on hold to help and/or support others, only to have them crap on me when it was time for my needs to take center stage."  On this statement, I think it very dramatically illustrates how you have chosen the role of helpless victim and have a pattern of being disappointed when people do not follow your hidden accounting system.  One of the issues I think this illustrates is an adjustment you may need to make.  I would hope that you consider yourself the person responsible for your own happiness, and also would be able to be kind for the sake of caring, rather than as an obligation for future reciprocity.  If you do not feel so currently, you really need to know that your needs have always been important and it has always been your responsibility to balance others needs while keeping your own met.  Maybe you are just saying you have not done as good of a job as you would have liked?  Well, if that's the case, I'd say, with your experiences you've gained some wisdom.


Howard, again, not knowing you, this may not apply to you or your situation.  However, you seem to be demonstrating some strengths in this situation too.  You have shown that you are able and willing to communicate your feelings and that you are interested in taking some action to resolve the problems you are facing.  This alone, I would say, has you half way to resolution.

I think the decision of seeing a lawyer, rather than a therapist is a very clear sign of a decision that you have already made.  If I could wish one thing for you, it would be that you would step back and stop the momentum that you have built so far, and reconsider.  Even if you decide to persue a divorce, some of the issues you might discover and resolve with a therapist would increase your chances of future happiness.  And if you don't pursue a divorce, it might bring some more immediate improvement to your marriage and individual life.

There may be people that give you black and white answers and say that a person is good or bad, but reality is not that simple-minded.  Good luck, in examining the good as well as the bad in yourself and others.

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