Russian woman and Russian Orthodox

[Ryan]

I was interested to learn has anyone here married a Russian Orthodox woman.  I am planning on going to Tver and check out some woman with the agency Lifetime Partners and before I signed up and just wanted to know about the Orthodox stuff.  I am Lutheran and not big into religion.   I understand that I will ask the woman myself and it will probably be a personal thing but I am just wondering across the board are orthodox woman all real religious and stuff or what…..
thanks
Ryan

[wsbill]

... in response to Russian woman and Russian Orthodox, posted by Ryan on May 15, 2002

Group to Ukraine or Russia.

Heck, this would seem like the idea way to meet a real russian woman.  And I'm not talking about the babushka, but there are alot of nice girls who are content on living their life in rus/ukr and are happy.

Aren't those the ones ye should be after.

[WmGo]

... in response to Russian woman and Russian Orthodox, posted by Ryan on May 15, 2002

Ryan,

I think that the reality is that if someone is a true Bible believing born again Christian, then yes, they will have "religious" beliefs and practices - regardless of denomination. However, it is possible for a believer to be in a "backslidden" state and, therefore they could appear to not be "religious."

Most people in FSU suffer the consequences of 70 years of Bolshevik tyranny, meaning that most people there are not Christians. However,there are many people there who now think that they are "Orthodox Christians" just because Orthodoxy is the historical religion of Russia.

Noteworthy is the fact that, as a result of widespread missionary activity by Western Christian groups and churches, there is substantial spiritual revival (receipt of the Gospel) in many parts of the FSU.

You mentioned that a persons religious beliefs would be a "personal thing." I agree. I believe it is the single most personal thing about a person. And this is *exactly* why it should be specifically inquired into, and also why it is the most legitimate and relevant topic of personal discussion - whether it has to do with romantic interests or not.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

WmGo

P.S. I was raised Lutheran. To say that one is "Lutheran" is to say that you believe in your soul the totality of the Nicene and Apostles Creed, i.e, that Jesus is the Christ and is your personal Saviour, belief in Holy Trinity, authority of Scripture, etc. If you believe this, then the world would call you "religious" - it might even call you a "religious fanatic" ...LOL

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re:Christianity, posted by WmGo on May 15, 2002


Not that I want to digress into a theological discussion here... since it's really not the place...

But several years ago, C.S. Lewis wrote a great book entitled: "Mere Christianity".

In it, he said that the term "Christian" is being misused.

He likens it to the term "Gentleman". It used to be that the term Gentleman had a meaning: It meant someone who owned land. As time passed, people began to think that Gentleman implied certain other things... that he was gracious, kind, had proper manners, was educated... that sort of thing.

After awhile, it lead people to say things like: "You sir, are no Gentleman!" And what they meant was that he did not live up to their preconceived notion of what a Gentleman should be.

But, since everyone's notion varied, soon, the term Gentleman became meaningless. It meant different thins to different people.

What people should have said was: "You Sir, are a BAD Gentleman," for this still retained the meaning of Gentleman, while still allowing for its true meaning: He was a landowner.

Now... applying this to Christianity... your one sentence conerns me:

"Most people in FSU suffer the consequences of 70 years of Bolshevik tyranny, meaning that most people there are not Christians"

That leads me to ask: According to whose definition of Christianity?

C.S. Lewis attempts to answer the question: "What is the nature of a Christian... What are the essential elements that a person MUST believe and still call themselves a Christian."

Whether they can execute their beliefs is a different matter. For, let's face it, the Bible teaches that ALL have sinned and fallen short... so, rather than making a statement: "They are not Christians" (which may shock many people who feel that they are) Maybe we should grant them a little slack...

Based on *what* are you saying that most people who claim to be Orthodox Christians are not Christians?

I can accept that they are not Baptists, or Lutherens, or Presbyterians... but to say that they're not Christian isn't giving them their due.

If she professes faith in Jesus, and Believes in God -- in SPITE of all of the "Bolshevik tyranny" -- is she not a Christian?

Just because she doesn't know the words to Amazing Grace, or have a baptism certificate... are we really ready to denounce her Christianity?

I'm not... But, I guess to each his own...

[WmGo]

... in response to Mere Christianity, posted by MarkInTx on May 16, 2002

Hey Mark,

Good post, and I agree with you. I think that you may have misunderstood mine a little.

If someone professes faith in Christ as Saviour, by all means yes, that makes them a Christian - regardless of denomination, regardless of worship style etc. I persoanlly do not claim a denomination.

What I meant is that since the collapse of the Soviet Union many Russians and Ukrainians automatically *think* that they are "Orthodox" and therefore "Christian" merely because Orthodoxy is the historical religion there. In other words a "cultural Christian" - the same way a person in Central or South America would claim to be Catholic even though they have never been to Church and did not know, understand or believe anything in the Bible. Most persons who claim to be "Orthodox", when questioned about this, will admit that they do not believe in the deity of Christ or the authority of Scripture as God's literal word. The reason is that they believe what they were taught by the Communists - that man evolved from lesser life forms and that the Bible is a book of fairy tales. It is only a minority of persons who refer to themselves as "Orthodox" who really believe in Christ. This can be shown in many ways: first hand experience traveling there and talking to people from all walks of life -  this will be admitted by the populace. Second, missionaries of all denominations will tell you this. Thirdly, research the matter on the internet and you will discover how common it is since the collapse of the Soviet Union for many people for social and political reasons to call themselves "Orthodox". In fact, a majority of the ladies who appear on the MOB sites specifically state they are "Christian" or "Orhtodox" not because they really are, but only because they have been told that America is a "religious" country (it is comparitively speaking) and that many of the men want a Christian woman. I have corresponded with hundreds of ladies that said they were "Christian" or "Orhtodox" and only a few percent actually believe that Jesus is the Christ. They think that they are "Orthodox" because their grandmother was, or because once or twice a year they go to church and light a candle.

So it is a matter of fact that most Russians and Ukrainians are not Christians. I am kind of surprise that you would think otherwise as I, and a few others, have be challenged in the past by some posters as to why we believers would even try to find a bride in FSU given the fact that it is overwhelmingly atheist territory. This is common knowlege and historical reality.

But guess what? I am not judging anyone. In fact, I am involved in evangelization efforts there. When I travel there, I spend part of my time doing this and part of my time meeting ladies. And the collective missionary efforts of many are making progress.

Yes, I have Mere Christianity and the Screwtape Letters in my personal library. Good stuff.

I hope this explains where I was coming from. I was not meaning to sound like I was putting the FSU down. I am dedicated to helping lift them up. I was just reporting the current unfortunate reality. My reference to the Bolsheviks was only that because of their evil crimes and brainwashing the current spiritual condition of the FSU is understandable.

Regards.

WmGO

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Mere Christianity, posted by WmGo on May 16, 2002


The only reason I disagreed is that in my (limited) experience, I have found the women to be God believeing, and church going.

Of course, that's merely anecdotal, I agree. I have only met a ouple of women, and I have only corresponded at any length with a few. But I would say that -- in my limited experience -- the ratio of "professing" Christians is about the same there, as I found on Matchmaker here.

I haven't done a study. But, your analysis, while it is probably correct, is also not really very far off from the situation in the US, either.

Many people consider themselves Christian, and yet don't darken the doors of a church, and have no problem with making the same kind of moral equivication that "non-believers" do.

After all, if the US were truly a "Christian Nation", would Bill Clinton have survived his impeachment hearings?

[WmGo]

... in response to Anecdotal, posted by MarkInTx on May 16, 2002

Agree 100% Sad but true.

[tfcrew]

... in response to Re:Christianity, posted by WmGo on May 15, 2002

...we went ONCE to the St. Nicholas or whatever in Dallas. An hour and a half of chanting and hairy brainers of incense was enough for me ! We got married at the Methodist in Garland

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Good post, and more about the Orthodox....., posted by tfcrew on May 15, 2002

When I was in High School, I dated a Russian Orthodox girl (who knew it was a harbinger of things to come!)

She was my first real girlfriend.

I went with her to Easter Mass -- four hours, most of it in Russian. I was in the Choir loft with her. (She sang in the Choir with her mother and grandmother.) Everyone sang the songs... which were in Russian.

Trying to understand what was going on... I asked what the songs meant.

No one knew!

They went to Church, and lsitened to three quarters of the sermon and service in Russian, and 80% of the church didn't speak Russian!

I guess it's no diferent than Latin Liturgy... but that was a completely foreign concept to me!

I will not go so far as to say that they are not Christians (as some do).

But I will agree that it wasn't how I choose to worship. I kinda want to know what I am saying when I pray and sing.

BTW... do you go to a Methodist church with your wife now? Does she miss the faith of her homeland?

[Oscar]

... in response to Russian woman and Russian Orthodox, posted by Ryan on May 15, 2002

I found that most of the women in the FSU (at least all the ones I met) either never went to Church or went perhaps twice a year at maybe Christmas and Easter..  75 years of communist punishment for religiosity will do that to a people!

Later..

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Russian woman and Russian Orthodox, posted by Oscar on May 15, 2002

My dad was a Presbyterian Minister.

I remember one year he put a sign on the church:

"We are OPEN between Easter and Christmas..."

[BarryM]

... in response to Russian woman and Russian Orthodox, posted by Ryan on May 15, 2002

Remember Russia is still a secular country. The Church is strong but most of the populous does not attend at all. The women who do attend church more than 6 times a year are very religious and devout. Surprisingly, RW/UW who come over here are often interested in attending Orthodox Church here more than they were in Russia or Ukraine. You're most likely to meet ethnic Russians or Ukrainians in an Orthodox Church.

You should find an OCA Church in your area and check it for yourself. All of the Russian Orthodox Churchs in America fall under the auspices of the OCA by an agreement in 1971.

Link:

http://www.oca.org

-blm