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When we get involved with a person of a different race, religion, or nationality, the negative comments are bound to soon follow. We hear stories about a friend of a friend  who married someone of from the same country or race and the nightmares that soon followed. Perhaps some tales are true, but many are hearsay and should be regarded as such. Since I know of a positive story that I witnessed, I thought I would share it, hoping that in some small way it may  help to balance things. Perhaps others have other success stories to tell.

My good friend fell in love with and married his Vietnamese sweetheart during the war. She has been a kind, faithful, hard working, and supportive wife and mother for almost 30 years. They have two wonderful children who are college graduates and hard working also. I remember when things weren't so easy for my friend. In the late 70's they were able to get the wife's family out of Vietnam. Twelve immediate family members (Mother, Father, brothers, sisters, spouses and children) came to live in my friend's small house with his wife and children. He worked two jobs to help feed and support everyone in the beginning. He always came to work looking very tired and stressed. People would tell him that he was being used by these people. They were refered to by various derogatory names.  He was told that they were going to throw him out in the street. When the older Vietnamese family members were able to find work, speaking little English, they took it...no matter how difficult or low paying. Eventually they moved up to slightly better jobs and continued to advance. In a short time they began paying for all of their living expenses and my friend quit the side job. He didn't usually complain, but the cramped living quarters and lack of privacy sometimes got to him. Eventually the family members decided to buy a larger house for themselves to live in.  My friend had to co-sign so that they could get the loan. He gladly did so, not only to get his privacy back, but also because he knew they were good, honest, hardworking people and most importantly, because he had grown to love them. This was the last straw for some of our co-workers and friends. They couldn't believe his "stupidity" and let him know their disgust. He heard all the same time worn crap of how they were going to bleed him dry. How they couldn't be trusted and how they only used Americans and could never love anyone that wasn't their own kind. Several years later I saw my friend come into work in tears. I was very worried since he was a big guy who never cried. It turns out that his wife's family had paid off the home loan and put the house in his name...giving it to him out of gratitude. Eventually they all had good jobs and moved into their own homes, leaving this house for my friend to rent and earn income.

Dave H.

... in response to The Asian Mind-set, posted by Dave H2O on Aug 16, 2001

Fall in love with an Asian girl from a family better off than you are. Hey, rich girls need boyfriends, too!
-- Jeff S.

... in response to To guarantee you'll never be scammed - D..., posted by Jeff S on Aug 16, 2001

The big challenge, I suppose, would be the family's willingness to approve of the daughter "marrying down".

- Kevin

... in response to Re: To guarantee you'll never be scammed..., posted by kevin on Aug 16, 2001

As long as you are not "burakumin", and as long as you have _some_ future potential, her family might not be so hostile to the idea.

See the paragraph entitled "Purity and Discrimination" in the following article.

http://www.culturalbridge.com/jpa.htm

... in response to Marrying Down?, posted by Bob S. on Aug 17, 2001

I personally know a case of discovering burakumin in a family. A young man's parents denied permission for their son to marry girl he loved because their independent and secret geneological investigation of her family turned up that four generations back one of her ancestors was a leather worker.
-- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: Marrying Down?, posted by Jeff S on Aug 17, 2001

It just don't make a lot of sense.  A person's current employment can be as a butcher, tanner, tatami mat maker, grave digger, and it's just fine.  But if their great- great- great- great- grandfather was, then the whole line is tainted and un-kosher.  It's just another cultural peculiarity one should expect in trans-Pacific relationships.

... in response to Re: To guarantee you'll never be scammed..., posted by kevin on Aug 16, 2001

It's an unusual situation in the US where the father is less well off than his potential sons-in-law. When my father-in-law was my age at the time I was dating his daughter, he had just returned from walking across China in WWII, having been drafted into the Japanese army in 1945, with no logistical support (food, arms, nor ammunition) whatsoever. They hid out mostly during the days and stole what crops they could out of the fields. He returned to a nearly completely destroyed country, got work with the American occupation army (because of his English ability) and carved out a meager existance for himself, his new bride and soon to be two daughters. He parlayed that into a very successful career, starting his own business in his early 50s and only really "making it" when he was about 60. What he was looking for in a son-in-law was someone with the potential to make his daughter happy. Not money necessarily, but earning potential was a part of it. Personality qualities was his main interest. Yes, he wanted someone who could afford to send his grandchildren to college, but mostly he wanted someone who was loyal and would take care of his daughter and granddaughter.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, Kev, but you seem to have a negative view of yourself. You seem to believe you're pigeonholed into a certain socio-economic class with no mobility and no hope for change. I don't understand that having been so poor I had to hitch-hike to school, live on an old commercial fishing boat for free, and fish for dinner while I put myself through engineering school and work nights part time for minimum wage. I've gone from there to president of a manufacturing company with nearly 100 employees. I've had plenty of setbacks along the way, and no, I did it neither for the power nor the money, but for the accomplishment. You're obviously an intelligent, genuine person, but somewhere along the way you seem to have made some decisions about what you are and are not capable of. Ease up on yourself - you'll be surprised what you can accomplish.

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Marrying down?, posted by Jeff S on Aug 17, 2001

Jeff S.

Though it might have been directed towards Kevin.  I appreciated the reminder that anything is possible with determination.  

I have been feeling pigeoned holed lately in my occupation  That my earning potential is limited.  Yes it is discouraging to realize that a  recent a year college grad starting out at Enterprise rent a car makes as much as you do being a car jockey doing the work of a monkey when you have over 20 years experience and knowlege in your own field.  

A friend in Boston keeps on tempting me to return there with a job offer with a $ 10 - 15,000 raise.  But I think the work would not be as challenging.  I am still interested in trying to build a firm employment foundation with this corporation for my future.  I also realized that I  would be deviating from my goal of diving into an Asian Cultural experience. At least California is closer and I really enjoyed hanging out with my former chinese coworker yesterday and I realize that is what I am interested in.

I have a Coworker who is transfering up to the new San Francisco property  he was excited that he will be starting out at $ 17.50 (maybe a 3 - 4 dollar raise).  I wished him all the best but I wondered, though he may keep his head above water  will he get ahead there with that salary?  San Fran sure sounded appealing to me with it's large asian population,  but  I had to ask myself,  can you afford to live there  and  not now   was the answer?

As for myself once I am done with my trip back east in October it will be time to kick in some sweat equity  and get that Asian Fund a rolling. Maybe I will resume some of my Cooking skills seeing as how I also have a degree in that that I am not using. I certainly can relate to Lori's Saving endevors prior to her trip.

By the way I started out as a Dish Dog for $ 2.80 an hour back in 1979.  How low was the minimum wage for you?

Windmill Boy

... in response to Re: Marrying down?, posted by Windmill Boy on Aug 17, 2001

WB:
The bay area is quite a bit more expensive than SoCal. Besides, I think we here in the Southern part probably have quite a few more Asians than the bay. Of course you being up there in lilly white Santa Barbara doesn't exactly expose you to much richness of culture. I'll bet you could parlay your skills into a job in Asia, though. I'll bet some of those swank hotels in Tokyo, Hong Kong, Seoul or Taipei could use a guy with your skills. You might have to speak English with a French accent to REALLY impress them!

http://www.gaijinpot.com/english/view_job.php?job_id=931
http://www.gaijinpot.com/english/view_job.php?job_id=853

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: Re: Marrying down?, posted by Jeff S on Aug 17, 2001

Jeff S.

Thanks for the  web site links  they could come in handy for the future.  But I don't know if I could stoop down to speaking english with a French accent  ha ha ha.

While my training is mostly influenced by the French  and their pastries versus the styles of some of the other European countries  I don't think I have the arrogance to pass for a French Chef  based on most of the ones I have met so far.  Don't get me wrong  I don't dislike the Frenchies  but  they sometimes  amuse me with their attitudes.  One on one with them you are usually okay  but if you get 2 of them together  you are considered garbage and they are so great ha ha ha.  But if you want to tone them down   just ask them about their great French cars like Renault Le Car   ha ha ha  that usually works.

The funniest thing though  might be that I am actually French on my fathers side 6 generations back.  I am decended from a Heugonaut who got kicked out of France in the early 1700's for being protestant.  My mom's  maiden name is Hofman.   so hell, I guess that side of the family is pretty Dutch.

Windmill Boy

... in response to Re: Marrying down?, posted by Windmill Boy on Aug 17, 2001

Wow Windmill! That’s not so bad.

I started at $1.25 an hour, but that was in 1962. I started as a part time janitor in a school and worked my way up to gas station attendant. My first full year in the Navy I earned a little over $1,300. The military didn’t pay very much, but heck, it included free luxury cruises to the Philippines and the Far East so I couldn’t complain.

Hey, when you open your own restaurant or bakery you can count on a bunch of customers from this board :-)

Oh, how did the date go the other day? Is this developing into something? Just being nosy…

Ray

... in response to $ 2.80 an hour?, posted by Ray on Aug 17, 2001

Ray and Jeff S

Sorry I tried to write the details twice already and I have lost them by shifting in my chair and hitting the wrong key.

Short and sweet ...   I had a great time  with her.  but nothing is happening between us.  Saw a jackie chan movie did some shopping and alot of talking.  Went for a Chinese dinner.  and a walk at the marina.  She is a very beautiful woman and it drove me crazy.  but she is still the same person I used to work with and is a little  too crazy and too much of a handfull to deal with.  She still does not know what she wants for her future. I told her goodnight "Trouble" -- Keep in touch and don't be a stranger.  and she said Goodnight  "devil".  

She is still a good friend who is really hot and sexy without even trying  but I also know she is a little too unstable for my tastes and hasn't shown any romantic interest towards me.   She is still alot more interesting than many of the other women I am coming accross lately.   The story of my life right ha ha ha  but it works both ways.  I have another white female friend who has hinted that she would like to be more than friends but I am not interested in her romantically and I don't want to ruin our friendship  so  "que sara sara"

Windmill Boy

... in response to $ 2.80 an hour?, posted by Ray on Aug 17, 2001

30 cents per hour plus tips. Mugs Up rootbeer stand Prarie Village Kansas, 1966 (to pay for flying lessons at age 13). From there to $1.65 in a men's clothing store, then my big score at 16 working loading and unloading trucks at a factory for WAAAYYY over minimum wage at $2.65 per hour. I was in the chips!
-- Jeff S.

Yeah! - how'd the date go?????????

... in response to I got you both beat, posted by Jeff S on Aug 17, 2001

Most of my early jobs were paid under the table. I finally got a "legitimate"  job at a pharmacutical warehouse when I was 14. It paid $1.50 per hour and all the chemicals I could inhale or spill on my skin, while filling bottles from 55 gallon drums or unloading trucks. I can't begin to tell you how much fun I had playing with bottles of Mercury. I don't remember much about that job other than I was usually in a daze and had a headache. =8-0

My next job (15) was at $1.65 per hour as a bag boy at a grocery store..."No tipping please!" Company policy stated that they would fire employees who accepted tips for carry-out service. Some customers would get upset and insist. On one very busy day, the store manager was taking out groceries for customers. I caught him being forced to take a tip. I got promoted to stockman that day and a got a 20 cent per hour raise. I learned how to keep my mouth shut. ;-I  I celebrated when I received my next paycheck and bought Thrush mufflers for my 66 Mustang.

Dave H.

... in response to 30 cents...You beat me!, posted by Dave H2O on Aug 17, 2001

Dave H

Yes that Mercury had some wild properties to it didn't it.  my father was a maintenence man  and brought some home  one evening.  My brothers and I had some fun playing with it at the table.  At least my father was smart enough to tell us not to touch it with our fingers.

Windmill Boy

... in response to The Asian Mind-set, posted by Dave H2O on Aug 16, 2001

Dave,

That's a touching story :c)  Do you ever get tired of being so uplifting and optomistic?  LOL!

No man, I love YOU!  LOL

H

... in response to The Asian Mind-set, posted by Dave H2O on Aug 16, 2001

Dave,
 The good stories rarely ever get repeated do they?  I heard lots of tales of woe and predictions of my impending doom when I started writing to Asian ladies(not all Filipinas) but not one of these people could give proof.

  They were all so quick to talk in such absolutes with unwaivering confidence about how "all of those people" just want to come to the US and will marry the first guy who comes along just to use him.

"It happens every day" they would say.

 "They will marry you and then 'run' as soon as she gets here", they would dribble on.  

"They'll bring their whole family here and latch on to you until you die", would be the next words from their mouth.

  Yet, when asked for just one name, one phone number of the many many victims of these tradgedies, I never got anything more substantial than a blank stare.

  Now 7 years later nobody says anything at all.  :)

  Frankly, I was shocked to see this attitude about Asians.  I had always seen Asians as smart and hardworking and know of several Vietnamese guys who came here with nothing but the clothes they were wearing and are now Engineers.  

  As far as Kevin's attitude towards Filipinas goes, I am definitely not condemning him.   I think there is still just a lot of hurt there from his previous marriage and time is the only cure for that.   And of course there are some who are just like he says, but they are not the majority.  (Those dirty, scum sucking Taxi drivers have daughters so I suppose that's where the bad girls come from!  LOL)

                             SteveG

... in response to Re: The Asian Mind-set, posted by SteveG on Aug 16, 2001

Steve...not to discount the essense of the main part of your post, But that last line...well, I remember back, back....

Long ago or so seems now, it was the fall of 89', I had to leave from PI because of an family emergency. I had been doing a stint of humanitarian work with HFH in Dumaguete City and my father had just suffered from a serious stroke and was not expected to live. I hurridly flew to Manila with a ticket in hand with hopes to board a NW flight to the US, only to find some unusual refugee crisis taking place that would delay my flight for another 5 days. And NW wasn’t coughing up any courtesy hotel provisions. Apparently all these NW 747's were being given priority status to remove these refugees first. Well, I didn't have much extra money, except for a meal or two and maybe one night in a hotel and then I was stuck. On my way back from the airport to a cheap hotel, the taxi driver and I struck up a conversation...He ask me about what I was doing, etc..I told him my story. And then he said, Please come stay with me and my family. I couldn't believe it....but because this situation had happened so suddenly and I had zero options, I humbly accepted this mans offer and was provided with meals and a place to sleep in their very small house with 7 other children in a very poor area on the outskirts of Metro manila not far from the Airport for the next 5 days. I had already been exposed to a lot of deplorable poverty in the provinces which were very disturbing…but this cramped living quarter scenerio was even more difficult in many ways and those water ways just in the back through dark little walkway between the each bungalow were extremely depressing. What I saw in walking around the next several days tuned me into some intense realitys as well as gave me insight into just how much this man and his family were doing for me. I gladly gave him all the rest of my money which he never asked for and which wasn’t much and told him I would send him more after I returned home, which I did. Several years later I lost track of him when they moved. But I have never forgotten how they really blessed me by showing such a kindness and had not once asked for a peso in return.

Zeb

... in response to The taxi driver who saved me...., posted by Zebson on Aug 16, 2001

Zebson,
 Sure there are good taxi drivers.  Probably more good ones than bad ones, but the unfortunate problem is that the bad ones tend to be much more aggresive and the ones a foreigner is most likely to encounter.

 It was an amazing show of generosity that the taxi driver did for you.   I've seen some of the extremely poor sections of Manila too where families live in little wood box  like houses.   Taking in a stranger for a week was a huge sacrifice for him.
                                    SteveG

... in response to I know you are right, Zeb, posted by SteveG on Aug 17, 2001

Steve, dont' worry. I didn't mean to make it seem like they are all life savers by any means...but there are those..that defy the odds...(by the grace of God).

I have encountered more than my fair share of bad taxi drivers also...One I almost really went off on..( I think he was Muslim, not that that means anything) I had him scared stiff..I mean I really almost lost it...he said at one point he wanted $100 dollars from the airport to some place in Metro Manila back in 1999..And I went birzerk (remember Billy Jack in the ice cream parlor scene, he he...)..He ended up gratefully accepting my 100 pesos and he let me out in Makati. I almost extracted his thyroid gland on that one...(but that was one of my dark side moment coming out...)

Zeb...

... in response to The taxi driver who saved me...., posted by Zebson on Aug 16, 2001

I think there are a lot of great people there we just only hear about the bad ones.  Still, look at all the awesome marriages there have been.  BTW what I said to Kevin about Christie or her sister goes to you too if you are over the bad feelings.

Bear